Author Topic: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not  (Read 1506 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://www.redstate.com/jaycaruso/2016/08/22/trump-supporters-polls-right-social-media-crowds-are-not/

Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not

Posted at 11:37 am on August 22, 2016

 by Jay Caruso
 
It's hard at times to think back to 2012 when the polls consistently showed Barack Obama with a lead. Many thought the polls were wrong. Some believed the polls were "skewed" favorable towards Obama. Dean Chambers created a website that re-weighted the polls to "unskew" in order to show what the situation truly looked liked: Romney was ahead.

Others, like me, just couldn't make heads or tails of the results. Polls would show Romney with 7-9 point leads among independents but still show him trailing Obama. It just didn't make any sense. Later, we came to find out that many of the "independents" in the polls were actually long time Republican voters who just chose not to identify as Republicans. Pollsters took that into consideration and weighted accordingly.

It was a trap many people fell into. Even the pros. Dana Perino was one:

 
In the 2012 election, Republicans believed that the polls were skewed in Obama’s favor, and did not take conservative enthusiasm into consideration. I was one of them — I believed we were going to win. I believed the polls were wrong.
Karl Rove, on the night of the election, was still clinging to the belief the polls were incorrect.


In the end, the pollsters were right.

And they are right now. Just as they were, for the most part, during primary season.

It's just that now, it is Trump supporters who have fallen into the trap of discounting the polls. It's wrong and they're going to wind up very disappointed when the voting starts. Granted, there is time for the polls to change and polls are not a forecast but a snapshot of what people are thinking right now. That said, dismissing the polls outright is a big mistake.

The second mistake is discounting the polls in favor of social media reach and the number of people showing up to Trump rallies. The people showing up to rallies are baked in supporters. They are people who are going to vote for Trump, no questions asked. Social media reach is absurd. Trump may have millions of followers on Twitter, but that is not indicative of support when the voting starts. Eric Bolling at Fox News has turned to this silly reasoning and as Dana Perino said, he's simply lying to Trump supporters by telling them the polls are wrong.

The better polling firms get the results right more often than wrong. It's what they're paid to do. The notion they're conspiring to depress Trump voters by showing Hillary leading when she's not, is ridiculous conspiracy theory blather. Look the averages from RCP:


 

These are all the polls taken entirely during August. Trump is in trouble at this moment. Hillary Clinton has a nearly 6 point lead in the averages. Trump is doing worse in many state polls. It is the reason states like Georgia, Arizona, Missouri and North Carolina are toss-up states.

All of the talk about "rigged polls", "rigged elections" and whining about media coverage is all being set up as a cover for a big loss. If Trump loses, he and his supporters will claim the election was "stolen." It may make them feel better, but it won't be based on reality.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 04:21:38 pm »
Trump supporters were warned months ago while he insulted and attacked groups of people and individuals, that the polls  indicated that he was the candidate who was least likely to beat Hillary. The stats also indicated that he received a lot of DEM votes that won't carry over into the general.  I'm still trying to figure out why they can't see the writing on the wall.  Either they don't want to or they're not the brightest crayons in the box just like their leader.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 04:23:09 pm by libertybele »
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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 06:20:15 pm »
I agree.  The whole idea of some secret conservative (or even just "Trumpist") majority out there is a myth.  It comes from people being so self-absorbed that they just can't see that there are a great many people out there who don't share their values.  I've read "reasoned" argument such as "who would want to listen to a national ex-wife nagging at them for the next four years" in support of the idea that Hillary just can't win.

I personally think the only real chance the GOP had (certainly in the long term) was to pry a significant number of millennials away from the Democrats, and I just don't think Trump is the guy to do that.  I actually think we've permanently missed our window on the millennials.

I suppose Trump still has an outside chance simply because Hillary is so bad, but realistically, the odds are extremely long.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 06:22:08 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 06:24:14 pm »
The "Angry Eight" and Company ain't gonna like hearing that. 

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2016, 06:50:57 pm »
Count me as one who doubted the 2012 poll numbers about this time in the election, certain that the liberal media was skewing things and that Romney/Ryan must be close or even ahead in the polls.  To my dismay, the polls numbers proved accurate.   Now we still have the debates to get through starting in a few weeks that could shake things up a bit, but as I see it right now it's Hildabeast election to lose, and Trump has to use those debates to make up a lot of lost ground.   
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2016, 06:55:36 pm »
Trump supporters were warned months ago while he insulted and attacked groups of people and individuals, that the polls  indicated that he was the candidate who was least likely to beat Hillary. The stats also indicated that he received a lot of DEM votes that won't carry over into the general.  I'm still trying to figure out why they can't see the writing on the wall.  Either they don't want to or they're not the brightest crayons in the box just like their leader.

They may very well see the writing now, but after the lengths they went to and moral compromises they made to get their guy as far as he's gotten they can't very well admit we were right.

Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2016, 06:56:20 pm »
Trump supporters were warned months ago while he insulted and attacked groups of people and individuals, that the polls  indicated that he was the candidate who was least likely to beat Hillary. The stats also indicated that he received a lot of DEM votes that won't carry over into the general.  I'm still trying to figure out why they can't see the writing on the wall.  Either they don't want to or they're not the brightest crayons in the box just like their leader.


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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2016, 07:12:29 pm »
Rush agreed with this article...he like me didn't believe the polls in 2012...we saw the crowds at Romey's rallies and thought the polls have to be wrong...well, they weren't.

Hillary doesn't even have to have rallies..people will just vote for the D after her name and the media does the rest for her...
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2016, 07:30:47 pm »
we saw the crowds at Romey's rallies and thought the polls have to be wrong...well, they weren't.

What's productive is in realizing that any reasonable rock star can fill stadiums just about any time... That doesn't mean that everyone in a 500 mile radius is pro-rock-star, or even, pro-rock. Especially in Alabama, or South Carolina, or Wyoming - Yet they can still fill the show.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 07:32:33 pm by roamer_1 »

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2016, 08:05:20 pm »
The problem with 2012 was that Romney was going to need to flip some states that hadn't voted Republican in a Presidential vote in a long time: places like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. Given current demographic trends, that was always going to be a longshot. As much enthusiasm as there may have been for Romney and against Obama, Obama controlled the political machine vote, just as Clinton will this year.

To paraphrase a quote allegedly from Stalin, it's not your vote that counts, it's who counts the votes.
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Trump Supporters: The Polls Are Right; Social Media And Crowds Are Not
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2016, 08:08:16 pm »
I've been sparring with a Trump supporter on another site about this subject.  All during the primaries and right after the Republican convention , he gloated over Trump's fantastic poll numbers.  Well,  after the Dem convention, when Trump's numbers were hitting the skids, this same Trump fan went on and on about how the polls are rigged and that the real indicators of Trump's popularity are the size of the crowds at his rallies and how many Facebook likes Trump has. 

Today, this same Trump supporter posted a poll that was favorable to Trump.  So I asked why the polls are lies when Trump's numbers are down, but fantastic when Trump's numbers are up.

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