Author Topic: Bennett: #NeverTrump-ers put vanity above country; ‘Terrible case of moral superiority’  (Read 25057 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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It is really hard to take this site some times. All I keep hearing are two distinct groups.

One group of people are dealing with reality as it exists, right now, today.

The other group is insisting that because something that was supposed to happen months ago, did not happen the way they wanted it to, that nothing that they do after that fateful day matters.

There is no way possible to undo the past. Saying that you have no responsibility for your actions in the present, in a given situation, is the most ridiculous argument ever.

You are always responsible for the results of your actions. It doesn't matter to me which decision you make, but for the sake of reason, at least accept what you are doing. If you do not vote for Trump, you are actively making a decision to help Hillary, especially if you start campaigning against the Republican nominee. It is not complicated. It is not an opinion. It is not even debatable. That is the reality we are all facing. At least own up to what you are doing.

This "not my fault" victim-hood argument is driving me crazy. The wife beater always says, "It's not my fault. I didn't want to. She made me do it."

This election was lost in the primaries, when a plurality of people decided to support the one individual who consistently polled behind Clinton in a head-to-head General election.

Assigning the blame for the loss is all that's left to be done at this point.

Trump is already setting in place the "rigged system" narrative to blame for his loss. The GOP is blaming Trump's lack of discipline. His supporters are blaming those who don't support him, and his detractors are blaming his supporters.

The ONE thing they all have in common, is that they are all anticipating a Hillary victory.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Ghost Bear

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It is really hard to take this site some times. All I keep hearing are two distinct groups.

(deleted)


Yes, I agree, it really does get hard to take at times. But I define the two groups differently. One group has taken a moral position. The other group says, "screw your silly moral posturing, we must all vote for Trump or the Great Evil Hillary will win! Why don't you fools see that?"

To that question I can only say: I have made my choice. I will not compromise my beliefs. If that makes me unwelcome on this site, then so be it, I will leave. It is not posturing, or superiority, or any thing other than this simple decision: I will not vote for a man who lies routinely, who holds no clearly defined position on any topic, and who until very recently was good friends with the other major candidate.

That is my decision. I will not change it. Accept it or don't, I don't care.
Let it burn.

Online 240B

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I'm tired of this crap.

Let's put it this way: WE DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS WHAT YOU THINK.

How's that? 

Clear it up any for you?

What do you intend to do about it?

Put a gun to our heads and force us to vote for your dictator?

Or shoot us for treason because we will not vote the way you demand?

You all act like a bunch of freaking storm-trooping tyrants, the lot of you.

I agree with all your very wise and well thought out points.

I'm not sure what I would do with the 'rat's ass' even if you were generous enough to offer me one.

I'm not sure what the question is that you are 'clearing up', so no. Your response does nothing at all to clear anything up.

What do you intend to do about it?

What intend to do about it is to finish my tea, (very good tea btw, hard to find) and then go to bed.

Put a gun to our heads and force us to vote for your dictator?

On that point you have seen through my cleverly disguised ruse. I'm not sure how you knew based on what I actually wrote (that is assuming you read what I wrote). But yes. I do intend to put a gun to your head and to force you to vote for a dictator. That is exactly what I had planned. But now that you know about it, I'll have to come up with a new plan to force you to vote for a dictator.

Or shoot us for treason because we will not vote the way you demand?

I cannot shoot you as you suggest because dead people only vote for Democrats. It may or may not be a good idea, but it would not further my goal of global domination. I need live people to enslave once I take over the world, so it would not be productive for me.

You all act like a bunch of freaking storm-trooping tyrants, the lot of you.

Yep, that's me. 240b the storm-trooper. I'm just storm-trooping my way all around, all over the place, and forcing people to vote for dictators. Once again, you caught on to me.

Good talking to you. At least it was entertaining.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline INVAR

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Good talking to you. At least it was entertaining.

At least you have Alinsky's Rule No. 5 nailed down perfectly.

So kudos for you for studying up on it.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online 240B

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This election was lost in the primaries, when a plurality of people decided to support the one individual who consistently polled behind Clinton in a head-to-head General election.

Assigning the blame for the loss is all that's left to be done at this point.

Trump is already setting in place the "rigged system" narrative to blame for his loss. The GOP is blaming Trump's lack of discipline. His supporters are blaming those who don't support him, and his detractors are blaming his supporters.

The ONE thing they all have in common, is that they are all anticipating a Hillary victory.

Luis, it is good to have an opportunity to discuss this with you. I read your post that begins with...

Earlier this year, the GOP and right-wing voters in general had two things going for them:

1. A half dozen experienced candidates polling ahead of Clinton in a head-to-head match, and
2. The understanding that all that any one of those candidates would have to do to win the Presidency was to keep the voter's eyes trained on Hillary's scandals and shortcomings, and basically STFU about everything else.

I liked it and couldn't agree with you more about point #2. Trump really, really, just simply does not know when to STFU! He has caused his own campaign so much grief over stupid nonsense that he says without thinking.

These are unforced errors. If he could tamp down his ego a little, it would give the press a little room to discuss the dozens of scandals that Hillary is dealing with. He keeps them so busy talking about him, he does this intentionally, that they don't have time to talk about Hillary and her problems even if they wanted to.

And obviously they are going to give Trump all the rope to hang himself with that he wants. They don't want to talk about Hillary, and Trump is helping them more than they ever expected.

But I disagree with some of what you wrote. I do not agree that the game is over already except for assigning blame. No. I think it is far from over. That seems to be a very defeatist attitude.

Also,  if "a plurality of people decided to support the one individual who consistently polled behind Clinton" then that means it is over. That's it? I mean by that, the way I see it is we should help the "plurality" out. Who am I to stand against what the majority in the party want, and still claim to support that party. If the majority voted, and that is the vote, then I will support it. They voted Trump. They want Trump. I am able to admit that I may be wrong and they may be right.

To me this is all math and facts. I am not taking this whole thing to the personal emotional level that others do. But above and beyond all that. No matter what, I would not be able to live with myself two years from now knowing that I had an opportunity in front of me to vote against Hillary and Bill Clinton, and I chose not to take it. That would be impossible for me.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Online jmyrlefuller

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There is no way possible to undo the past. Saying that you have no responsibility for your actions in the present, in a given situation, is the most ridiculous argument ever.

You are always responsible for the results of your actions. It doesn't matter to me which decision you make, but for the sake of reason, at least accept what you are doing.
Which I do. I fully understand that neither one of the two leading candidates is fit to run the United States of America—something you don't seem to agree. Furthermore, I am most likely to cast my vote for the next highest candidate, a man whom, although I disagree with, I find at least tolerable in the short term and, combined with the votes of millions of others, will likely make the biggest impact on a Presidential election outside the major two parties since Ross Perot.

If you do not vote for Trump, you are actively making a decision to help Hillary, especially if you start campaigning against the Republican nominee. It is not complicated. It is not an opinion. It is not even debatable. That is the reality we are all facing. At least own up to what you are doing.

This "not my fault" victim-hood argument is driving me crazy. The wife beater always says, "It's not my fault. I didn't want to. She made me do it."
Now you've totally lost me. You have stooped to a new low, even for a Trump supporter.

Equating refusal to vote for Donald Trump (or Hillary Clinton) with domestic violence?

You are out of your ****ing mind! Even with the amount of suspension of disbelief to support this guy, only someone insane could post something like that.

Furthermore, I will say this once again: you are not entitled to my vote, solely because the other person is supposedly worse. If neither are fit, neither are fit.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 05:04:56 am by jmyrlefuller »
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Offline Half Vast Conspiracy

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Some people say, if I stay home in November, I'm voting for Hillary.

I say, if you voted for Trump in the primaries, YOU voted for Hillary.

Offline Vulcan

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Some people say, if I stay home in November, I'm voting for Hillary.

I say, if you voted for Trump in the primaries, YOU voted for Hillary.



Online Hoodat

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Some people say, if I stay home in November, I'm voting for Hillary.

I say, if you voted for Trump in the primaries, YOU voted for Hillary.


Ditto.  Finkle is Einhorn.  Einhorn is Finkle.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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You're being intellectually dishonest, Sink.
He was asked if Abortion was made to be illegal, should a woman who still seeks and obtains an abortion be punished/arrested.
He couldn't have answered that question in any other manner.
....and you know it.

The proper way to answer would be to say that women already pay a heavy price for abortion.  Abortion deeply wounds women emotionally as well as spiritually - wounds that spill out negatively in other areas of their lives.   Abortion hurts women.

But to answer it that way would require an empathy with women that Trump simply doesn't possess.  Trump views women first and foremost as sex objects, which is why he has always supported abortion just so that he doesn't get punished with a financial liability should he happen to get a woman pregnant.

And the fact that you, like Trump, can't empathize either speaks volumes about you.

Abortion hurts.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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One group of people are dealing with reality as it exists, right now, today.

ROTFLMAO!!!

Quote
The other group is insisting that because something that was supposed to happen months ago, did not happen the way they wanted it to, that nothing that they do after that fateful day matters.

There is no way possible to undo the past. Saying that you have no responsibility for your actions in the present, in a given situation, is the most ridiculous argument ever.

This is the reality. If you wanted Conservatives, who ALWAYS vote their principles, to vote for your candidate, you should have voted for a candidate they can vote for. End.of.story.

You are not going to change enough minds to matter - and even if you could convert every Conservative on this board (which will never ever happen), there are millions upon millions who will never budge an inch.

Quote
This "not my fault" victim-hood argument is driving me crazy. The wife beater always says, "It's not my fault. I didn't want to. She made me do it."

If you were to realize the projection involved in that statement, you will have learned a valuable thing.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Don't compare "slavery" with abortion.   Homey don't play that.

Over 600K Americans were KIA in the Civil War.

Go find a squirrel and don't forget YOUR tennis racket.    :whistle:

Over 50 million have been shredded, vacuumed, or chemically burned to death, some on the verge of birth, had scissors shoved into the back of their skulls and their brains damaged to the point they died.
Not one of them had committed any more crime other than to exist.
Not one of them was anything less than innocent.
None of them were charged with a crime, and none had a trial.
A few who had made it past all that and yet lived to draw breath were left to die.

It is on par with or beyond the greatest slaughter of any Dictator or political party, ever.
It is the greatest crime against humanity in history.
It is ongoing.

Go ahead, defend that. Defend those who defend that.
Tell your Creator all about that when the time comes.

I will not defend it, nor will I support, nor will I defend those who do.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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They really really abhor abortion, but will gladly facilitate Hillary Clinton winning.
The heavy lifting has already been done. Someone nominated the one person who couldn't beat her. Incidentally, it was the same guy who said he didn't need our votes. Fine, he won't get 'em.

Don't blame us. We didn't wreck the train, we got off at the last station, after we told y'all the bridge was out.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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You're being intellectually dishonest, Sink.

He was asked if Abortion was made to be illegal, should a woman who still seeks and obtains an abortion be punished/arrested.

He couldn't have answered that question in any other manner.


....and you know it.
Okay, if someone put out a contract on your life, should that be prosecuted?

Of course.

But the person who puts out a 'hit' on their own child should walk?
Even if it is successful?

Logic, schmodgic. Yours fails.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Speaking for the #NeverTrump movement, as a defacto President of NT, I have to point out that we are still debating our goals in the inner circle.

So far what we have as a preliminary agenda is: well, ... umm

We hate Trump above anything else.
We really, really, hate Trump.
We do not support Hillary, but are fine with her winning the Presidency.
And we hate Trump.
We do not support the Libertarian candidate or a write in for Cruz but we do not want Trump or Hillary to win.
NeverTrump does not endorse anyone except a candidate known as "not Trump".
If flaming Leftist Liberal Hlllary winning will defeat the closet Liberal Trump, then it is ok.
And, we really, really, hate Trump, but we sort of don't like Hillary either.
We are the real Republicans and all the other Republicans except us are crazy.
And we hate Trump...because he has tiny-hands and weird skin.

The summary bullet for where we stand is: We support 'nobody' for President 2016!

It is the mythical 'Nobody' ticket that we support. (even though we all know full well that this will get Hillary elected)
I don't know which of the 70-odd parties 'Nobody" is running for, but I saw him in the movie and he was impressive. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070215/

Even if you didn't see the movie that makes as much sense as that post.

I'm voting, for Darrell Castle. Neither of the 'big two' uniparty wings managed to nominate anyone I could support this time, even if I held my nose. I don't hate anyone, I just wouldn't hire them at gunpoint.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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During this campaign Trump has always behaved as an over the top caricature of what the left believes conservatives to be.
Precisely.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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This election was lost in the primaries, when a plurality of people decided to support the one individual who consistently polled behind Clinton in a head-to-head General election.

Assigning the blame for the loss is all that's left to be done at this point.

Trump is already setting in place the "rigged system" narrative to blame for his loss. The GOP is blaming Trump's lack of discipline. His supporters are blaming those who don't support him, and his detractors are blaming his supporters.

The ONE thing they all have in common, is that they are all anticipating a Hillary victory.
There will be one other thing to come of this, if those who supported that fraud have the honesty and guts to admit their mistake. Conservatives can learn from it, the Republicans can learn never to compromise core principles no matter how attractive they find the rantings of a particular candidate. But the latter can't happen if the former doesn't. No one can  learn from a mistake they will not admit.

The plethora of excuses already being posted, the swiveling of the guns of blame on those who were told they were neither needed nor desired, the increasing desperation of those who threw in with that charlatan tell me that a significant plurality of GOP voters will not learn one damned thing by this, and be doomed to remain the stupid party destined for the midden of history.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DB

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There will be one other thing to come of this, if those who supported that fraud have the honesty and guts to admit their mistake. Conservatives can learn from it, the Republicans can learn never to compromise core principles no matter how attractive they find the rantings of a particular candidate. But the latter can't happen if the former doesn't. No one can  learn from a mistake they will not admit.

The plethora of excuses already being posted, the swiveling of the guns of blame on those who were told they were neither needed nor desired, the increasing desperation of those who threw in with that charlatan tell me that a significant plurality of GOP voters will not learn one damned thing by this, and be doomed to remain the stupid party destined for the midden of history.

With what they did to Cruz and how they butchered the truth in the process with no remorse I don't expect any significant learning to take place. Their problems are not due to ignorance.

Offline Smokin Joe

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With what they did to Cruz and how they butchered the truth in the process with no remorse I don't expect any significant learning to take place. Their problems are not due to ignorance.
Well, there is a category called "willful ignorance", where people ignore anything to the contrary of their selected belief. I don't expect any recovery from that, much, either, but time will tell. Still, I take note of who is behind who and listen to their reasons. I see it as a litmus test and it will affect how we interact in the future.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Earlier this year, the GOP and right-wing voters in general had two things going for them:

1. A half dozen experienced candidates polling ahead of Clinton in a head-to-head match, and
2. The understanding that all that any one of those candidates would have to do to win the Presidency was to keep the voter's eyes trained on Hillary's scandals and shortcomings, and basically STFU about everything else.

A loud and angry plurality, made up mostly of people who believe that Jim Robinson's Free Republic represents the majority of people in the US, and who largely lack a higher education, managed to get a certifiable lunatic egomaniac who can't keep his mouth shut and believes that every thought that generates from his mouth should be recorded by monks and added to the Scriptures nominated.

People who opposed him saw this, and knew that that Hillary's best chance at winning this election was a Trump nomination. We tried to warn that this would happen, and we were ignored and even berated for expressing our opinions.

So now that we are where we said we would be with a Trump nomination, to sit and try to assign to us what will happen to the SCOTUS as a result of the illogical and irrational support for Trump is sheer and unadulterated bull excrement.

Whatever negative consequences the future holds for our kids as a result of Hillary's picks for the SCOTUS, are the fault of those who insisted in nominating a predictably unelectable candidate, and not to those who tried their best to stop him from being nominated.

Spot on post Luis.  Our 2 votes isn't going to win or lose the election.  The dozens, perhaps hundreds of readers who were moved by our posts isn't going to win or lose the election.  The fact that Trump is Trump is going to lose the election.  We have just been pointing out reality.

Offline Doug Loss

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Cognitive dissonance prevails.  As it does with strong borders, a robust economy, a strong military, intelligent screening of "refugees" and renewed respect around the world.

The real difference between you and us is that you somehow believe Trump would facilitate these things, while we can see from the evidence of his past actions that such imaginings are completely unrealistic.
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Doug Loss

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Just today, Donald Trump picked up over FIFTY black American voters.

Wow!  At that rate, by election day he'll have HUNDREDS of them, likely spread all over the country.  That will surely be enough to counteract the millions who wouldn't spit on him if he were on fire...
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Doug Loss

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Hillary has spent the last 25 years revealing herself to us.

As has Trump.  You just refuse to see what's plainly in front of your eyes.
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Cripplecreek

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As has Trump.  You just refuse to see what's plainly in front of your eyes.

I've been #NeverTrump for 30 years.

Its kinda funny and sad that just a couple of years ago many Trump supporters including JimKnob at TOS knew Trump was liberal slime just a couple years ago as well.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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I've been #NeverTrump for 30 years.

Its kinda funny and sad that just a couple of years ago many Trump supporters including JimKnob at TOS knew Trump was liberal slime just a couple years ago as well.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430187/william-f-buckley-donald-trump-demagoguery-cigar-aficionado

The most obvious target in today’s lineup is, of course, Donald Trump. When he looks at a glass, he is mesmerized by its reflection. If Donald Trump were shaped a little differently, he would compete for Miss America. But whatever the depths of self-enchantment, the demagogue has to say something. So what does Trump say? That he is a successful businessman and that that is what America needs in the Oval Office. There is some plausibility in this, though not much. The greatest deeds of American Presidents — midwifing the new republic; freeing the slaves; harnessing the energies and vision needed to win the Cold War — had little to do with a bottom line.

So what else can Trump offer us? Well to begin with, a self-financed campaign. Does it follow that all who finance their own campaigns are narcissists? At this writing Steve Forbes has spent $63 million in pursuit of the Republican nomination. Forbes is an evangelist, not an exhibitionist. In his long and sober private career, Steve Forbes never bought a casino, and if he had done so, he would not have called it Forbes’s Funhouse. His motivations are discernibly selfless. . . .

William F Buckley saw through Trump 16 years ago.