Author Topic: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat  (Read 3710 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,416
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2016, 09:04:54 pm »
Does it matter to you if the animal is killed in a manner that is considered by most in the industry, cruel and unneedingly painful?
Ask certain people and they'll tell you killing an animal is inherently cruel.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2016, 09:09:58 pm »
Ask certain people and they'll tell you killing an animal is inherently cruel.

I hope to go hog hunting by this coming weekend.  If I slit its throat and fart in the direction of Mecca, is that close enough for Halal?
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline guitar4jesus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,217
  • Gender: Male
  • Yup...
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2016, 09:20:08 pm »
I hope to go hog hunting by this coming weekend.  If I slit its throat and fart in the direction of Mecca, is that close enough for Halal?


Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2016, 09:22:37 pm »
The article cited by thackney notes that halal (as well as kosher) slaughter is supposed to be done in the most humane way possible.   Assuming that the meat I consume is in fact slaughtered humanely,  I could care less whether or not it is labeled halel.   Why should anyone?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2016, 09:26:42 pm »
The article cited by thackney notes that halal (as well as kosher) slaughter is supposed to be done in the most humane way possible.   Assuming that the meat I consume is in fact slaughtered humanely,  I could care less whether or not it is labeled halel.   Why should anyone?

Opinions vary. (big surprise I'm sure)

For example, in the EU, animals must be stunned first or it is considered inhumane.  But a religious exception is given to not stun first.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline Neverdul

  • Moderator Gubernatorial and State Races
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,596
  • Gender: Female
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2016, 09:50:56 pm »
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/11/24/the-islamic-butterball-your-thanksgiving-turkey-could-be-halal-certified/

When asked why, if the turkeys are slaughtered in compliance with Halal practice in the first place, is there no designation included on its product labels, Butterball stated that the USDA does not require them to label their turkeys accordingly.

The USDA does have rules regarding humane slaughter methods but exempts methods, those proscribed by religious customs and rituals, both Kosher and others including Halal.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2014-title7/html/USCODE-2014-title7-chap48-sec1902.htm


Quote
§1902. Humane methods

No method of slaughtering or handling in connection with slaughtering shall be deemed to comply with the public policy of the United States unless it is humane. Either of the following two methods of slaughtering and handling are hereby found to be humane:

(a) in the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut; or

(b) by slaughtering in accordance with the ritual requirements of the Jewish faith or any other religious faith that prescribes a method of slaughter whereby the animal suffers loss of consciousness by anemia of the brain caused by the simultaneous and instantaneous severance of the carotid arteries with a sharp instrument and handling in connection with such slaughtering.

Neither the FDA nor the USDA certifies whether a food product or an animal is slaughtered according to what is Kosher or Halal. What the USDA does say is that if it is labeled as such, it must be, for Kosher “prepared under rabbinical supervision” and if Halal “must be handled according to Islamic law and under Islamic authority”.

But the USDA does not regulate those entities providing the religious certifications.  If the question is if the animal is slaughtered using method (b) does have to be labeled as such?

It would seem the answer is no. As long as other USDA requirements are met, it would be up to the food processor, slaughter house to obtain a Kosher or Halal certification from a religious org providing such in order to label it as such.  If I am not mistaken there are several rabbinical orgs that issue Kosher certifications as there is no one central authority in Judaism and I guess the same goes for Halal.


Quote
“The United States government is not involved in religious matters, which is why agencies such as the USDA do not certify halal or kosher foods. That must be done by religious authorities or those they sanction. USDA does inform exporters of other countries’ import standards and directs exporters to U.S. halal certifiers approved by destination countries. ISWA is among those internationally recognized halal certifiers.”

http://iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/pamphlet/2012/07/201207028400.html#ixzz4HQtJjQwq

And

Quote
If a label bears a Halal or Kosher statement, does FSIS have to monitor the production of the product to observe ritual slaughter of animals?

No, the acceptability of the ritual used is the responsibility of the religious organization.  How they verify the acceptability is up to the organization.  FSIS inspection personnel may verify that the label is not falsified by verifying that the appropriate religious organization was contacted.

http://askfsis.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/375/~/if-a-label-bears-a-halal-or-kosher-statement,-does-fsis-have-to-monitor-the

In other words, all the USDA cares about is that if the food product is labeled as Kosher or Halal is that it was certified by "the appropriate religious organization".  Should the food processor or slaughter house choose not to obtain a Kosher or Halal certification by a recognized religious organization, the USDA does not require it to be labeled as such.

As far as turkeys and chickens for that matter, small farmers used and still use a method of slaughter that involves cutting the throat of the bird and letting it bleed out. Remember when Sarah Palin came under fire for this?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTi7P_1aoTc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTi7P_1aoTc

FWIW while this shows the supposedly “humane” stunning of turkeys prior to being slaughtered, I’m not so sure it is any less “humane”.  Really. OMG! Those poor turkeys were obviously afraid and traumatized as they were hung up upside down on a conveyer belt before being humanely shocked just prior to having their throats slit. / s

Turkey Farm & Processing Plant Tour: Temple Grandin


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=852zxDEAR-Q


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=852zxDEAR-Q
So This Is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,488
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2016, 12:29:26 am »
========================

For some reason, camels and goats come to mind.
The sad truth.  :laugh:
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

geronl

  • Guest
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2016, 07:30:22 am »
I eat a lot of bacon and sausage

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,054
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2016, 07:38:16 am »
I eat a lot of bacon and sausage
I was thinking use "Halal" for the brand name.... :laugh:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,488
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2016, 11:50:21 am »
I was thinking use "Halal" for the brand name.... :laugh:
Here's your advertising campaign:  "Halal? Hell, yeah!"
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2016, 11:56:31 am »
I was thinking use "Halal" for the brand name.... :laugh:
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline wolfcreek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,193
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2016, 12:25:37 pm »
Not sure of a bolt gun is ritual enough but, if you sit down at our table to have some venison, you can bet it's been blessed. ;)

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2016, 12:36:55 pm »
Not sure of a bolt gun is ritual enough but, if you sit down at our table to have some venison, you can bet it's been blessed. ;)

I'm pretty sure they bleed the animal, kinda like the Jewish Rabbis do.  Except the Muslims are dedicating the bleeding and animal to a dead guy who raped and murdered thousands of women and children.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline wolfcreek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,193
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2016, 12:54:36 pm »
I'm pretty sure they bleed the animal, kinda like the Jewish Rabbis do.  Except the Muslims are dedicating the bleeding and animal to a dead guy who raped and murdered thousands of women and children.

Yep...we thank Our father who art in Heaven. Big difference.

Offline Ancient

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 59
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2016, 01:09:58 pm »
There are already laws about such things.

And if the producer is going to claim a religious exemption to the laws then they should have to reflect that on the product label.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: 'Back-door Shariah' has Americans eating halal meat
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2016, 02:08:29 pm »
The USDA does have rules regarding humane slaughter methods but exempts methods, those proscribed by religious customs and rituals, both Kosher and others including Halal.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2014-title7/html/USCODE-2014-title7-chap48-sec1902.htm

Thank you for those links and posted information.  It seems strange that if a religious method is used to bypass the stunning requirement, the packaging is not required to show such an exception was used.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer