Author Topic: Female Marine can't complete Infantry Officer Course; no more women now enrolled  (Read 2363 times)

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rangerrebew

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Female Marine can't complete Infantry Officer Course; no more women now enrolled
Jeff Schogol, Marine Corps Times 6:35 p.m. EDT August 12, 2016
636066174302603953-MAR-IOC-Women-Quantico-3.jpg

(Photo: Staff)

A female Marine officer who was dropped from the Infantry Officer Course in April has failed the course on her second try.

“At this time, there are no female officers enrolled or slated to attend IOC,” Capt. Joshua Pena, a spokesman for Training and Education Command, said.

TECOM is not identifying the woman, who has been given a new military occupational specialty, Pena told Marine Corps Times.

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/08/12/female-marine-cant-complete-infantry-officer-course-no-more-women-now-enrolled/88634096/
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 11:20:07 am by rangerrebew »

Offline don-o

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It is a rare day that begins with good news.

geronl

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They will have to keep lowering the standards and requirements until it happens.

rangerrebew

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There is no shame for her.  Lots of men have tried and failed also.

Online dfwgator

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There is no shame for her.  Lots of men have tried and failed also.
Lots of men have made it.  How many women?

None.  But she tried and failed where many men fail, so no embarrassment.  I'm not crazy about making standards lower just to be PC and have women in such positions, I'm not even crazy about women in infantry positions period.  But that doesn't change the reality she tried and there is no shame in trying and not succeeding if you've given something your best.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 04:54:41 pm by rangerrebew »

Offline flowers

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They will lower the standards until they can get women in.  Gotta destroy US military. Cannot have them be able to defend us.


Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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There's no personal shame in her trying and failing, but why should that matter anyway?  Her feelings, self-image, or career aspirations is not what IOC is about.  It should be about what is good for the Marine Corps.

Wasting IOC training slots on females with a 0% passing rate, who then miss time serving in the FMF because they have to be recycled through another MOS, is both wasteful and stupid.  That's at least 30 women who have tried and failed.  Assuming those slots had been filled by males with normal passing rates, that means the Corps has 20 fewer trained platoon commanders than it should.

What a waste.

People who make the "everyone should get a chance to prove themself" argument don't understand that the mission takes priority over the interests of the individual.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 04:25:13 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Dartman

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People who make the "everyone should get a chance to prove themself" argument don't understand that the mission takes priority over the interests of the individual.

Ah ! The voice of reason.
Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama say "ISIL". The rest of the world says "ISIS". Hmmm ...

Offline ABX

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There is no shame for her.  Lots of men have tried and failed also.

She is still a Marine which means she can kick the ass of everyone here, probably all at once (except maybe our resident Ranger.)

Offline truth_seeker

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There is no shame for her.  Lots of men have tried and failed also.

I went over half-way through Army Infantry AIT, before a major injury and changing to other training.

Compared to Basic Training, Infantry AIT is much, much tougher. Forced marches with very little sleep are the worst aspect, in my memory.

I wonder if anybody on this site trained in the infantry ??
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline ABX

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I wonder if anybody on this site trained in the infantry ??

I'm pretty sure we have at least one Vietnam era real deal here (not going to out him, he doesn't talk about it), but most of us couldn't even keep up with this Marine in coffee making, at that any of the real work she does.  I'm with most others, I'm not going to knock her for trying. Good job for just being a Marine.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I went over half-way through Army Infantry AIT, before a major injury and changing to other training.

Compared to Basic Training, Infantry AIT is much, much tougher. Forced marches with very little sleep are the worst aspect, in my memory.

I wonder if anybody on this site trained in the infantry ??

Well, I went through most of IOC -- all the humps and stuff -- as a fill-in instructor when the staff was short-handed.  I have an extraordinarily good idea what it is like.

Marine OCS is extremely difficult -- some of my enlisted Marines who were sent to work there over the summer really had their eyes opened, because they thought OCS would be easier than boot camp.  After that, all Lts. then attend The Basic School for 6 months, near the end of which their staff TBS officers assign them to their MOS's.  So what that means is that you already have the high standards for OCS, and then infantry officers are hand-selected from the TBS platoons to go to the Infantry Officers Course.

The point is that male Lts. already have gone through multiple screenings before being sent to IOC, and the wash-out rate even from that high-level cadre is near 30%.  I also had the opportunity as a Tactics Instructor at The Basic School to watch more than 2000 Lts., male and female, go through field evoluation, conditioning hikes, etc.  So I think I have a fairly good idea how even the best-conditioned WM's would do at IOC, and...it isn't pretty.  Not the least bit surprised that the failure rate is 100%.

The biggest issue is simply the size of their frame, and the muscular endurance to move rapidly for extended periods, with heavy gear.  They just can't do it.

The whole "trying" thing....It just kind of aggravates me.   I don't care hard she, or any of the males who washed out, tried.  It's irrelevant.  It's a bottom line, success or fail business.  If someone wants to write a touchy human interest story, fine.  Just doesn't have squat to do with taking up training slots for infantry officers.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 04:29:03 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline truth_seeker

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Thanks for your service Major.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Crazieman

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I wonder if anybody on this site trained in the infantry ??

Disqualified for migraines.  Never had a chance.  Still fascinated by and revere those that went through it all.
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Offline driftdiver

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I'm pretty sure we have at least one Vietnam era real deal here (not going to out him, he doesn't talk about it), but most of us couldn't even keep up with this Marine in coffee making, at that any of the real work she does.  I'm with most others, I'm not going to knock her for trying. Good job for just being a Marine.

I don't think anyone is saying these women aren't good people but that it's ignorant to force women into these roles.    The administration is saying these women are better then men solely because of their gender. 

I'm confident that if women were the more lethal option they would have been utilized in these roles a long time ago.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline truth_seeker

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I don't think anyone is saying these women aren't good people but that it's ignorant to force women into these roles.    The administration is saying these women are better then men solely because of their gender. 

I'm confident that if women were the more lethal option they would have been utilized in these roles a long time ago.

I do not see it as "forcing" the women. I have met plenty of women, who "want" to reach the highest levels of performance, for no other reason than personal satisfaction.

I used to run marathons, a lot. My pace put me near the front groups of women. IOW I spent time with "above average" but not quite "elite" women athletes.

Got to know a few. One of them is a neighbor, a couple of streets away. She is younger, so she can still run some. Me, now too old to run without pain and injury.

But I would love to run, and it is a similar motivation which I think pushes the most capable women. 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

rangerrebew

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The wife and I went to our son's graduation from Navy OCS.  Among the instructors were three female Marines either ssgt. or gsgt.  These women looked tough enough to stop torpedoes at sea if they were dangled over the side.  Yes maam, no maam were richly deserved.

Offline driftdiver

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I do not see it as "forcing" the women. I have met plenty of women, who "want" to reach the highest levels of performance, for no other reason than personal satisfaction.

I used to run marathons, a lot. My pace put me near the front groups of women. IOW I spent time with "above average" but not quite "elite" women athletes.

Got to know a few. One of them is a neighbor, a couple of streets away. She is younger, so she can still run some. Me, now too old to run without pain and injury.

But I would love to run, and it is a similar motivation which I think pushes the most capable women.

It's not about personal satisfaction.   It's about fielding the most capable and lethal force possible.   It's about putting the mission above self.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.