Author Topic: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump  (Read 8282 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://www.dailywire.com/news/8350/laura-ingraham-successfully-persuades-me-not-vote-ben-shapiro?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=news&utm_campaign=twitterbenshapiro

Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump


BY: BEN SHAPIRO AUGUST 12, 2016

On Tuesday, syndicated radio host Laura Ingraham appeared on Fox News and called anyone who failed to vote for Donald Trump “immoral.” I responded here. My main argument was this:

I have never made and will never make the argument that it is immoral for people to vote for Trump to stop Hillary. I understand that argument completely, and sympathize with it. But lying for Trump is immoral. Pretending his boo-boos aren’t boo-boos is immoral. Pretending he’s something he’s not, and lying to your audience about it – that’s immoral. And most of all, pretending that those who make a different risk-reward calculation from yours are immoral – even while those people hold supposedly similar principles – is immoral.


Now Ingraham has responded, in a piece titled, "The morality of voting for Trump: #NeverTrumpers fail to persuade as Dems focus on helping their candidate win."

And her response embodies the immorality about which I wrote. In order to justify her support for Donald Trump, Ingraham is forced to embrace and purvey a series of lies.

Those lies are why I don’t plan to vote for Trump.

She lies that Trump is conservative.

He isn’t. That’s why I didn’t support him in the primaries, while Ingraham stumped for him: Trump wants to raise the deficit; he ripped Romney for being too tough on illegal immigration before changing his tune, and even now tells The New York Times that his positions are negotiable; he said Obama was doing a great job and funded Hillary Clinton and paid her to come to his wedding; he supported same-sex marriage years ago and has been utterly vague on religious freedom restoration laws on the state level; he backed partial-birth abortion until five minutes ago and says Planned Parenthood does wonderful things; he wants to impose massive interventionist tariffs on free trade. There's a reason Trump gave more money to Democrats than Republicans between 1980 and 2010.

She lies that anyone who opposes Trump is an establishment lackey.

That’s pure nonsense. The people loudly supporting Trump are alt-right ethnonationalist droogs and establishment Republican cheerleaders who make their money by “backing the nominee.” Yes, there are the people who hold their noses and vote Trump, many of them conservative – and as I’ve said, I sympathize and consider whether they’re right every day. But those opposing Trump aren’t the establishment. Paul Ryan, Reince Preibus, and Mitch McConnell all support Trump. Ingraham whips herself into a lather attacking those leading establishment figures, then says that conservatives are establishment if we don’t follow their lead in bowing before Trump.

She lies that Trump won’t damage conservatism.

He already has. She’s the living proof. She’s lying for him every day, informing her audience of positions he doesn’t hold and blaming all his failures and evils on his opponents.

She lies that other Republicans will stand up to Trump.

She knows that one’s a lie – she’s spent most of her career rightly blasting Republicans for caving to President Clinton and President Obama. Yet she somehow maintains that with Trump in power, Ryan and McConnell will turn into models of testicular fortitude – and that she won’t undercut them if they cross Trump.

Finally, she lies that opposing Trump means supporting Hillary.


This is the final resort of the ardent Trump supporter: if you won’t back their man, you must back his opponent. This is simple-minded. I don’t owe my vote to anyone. I certainly don’t owe it to Donald Trump. If I choose to vote for Trump, that’s one vote for Trump and one against Hillary. If I chose, God forbid, to vote for Hillary, that would be one vote for Hillary and one against Trump. If I choose neither, neither gains nor loses a vote.

This is called mathematics.

And by the way, I choose neither. Hillary Clinton is a terrible person, a cesspool of corruption and avarice. I wouldn't vote for her if you put a gun to my head.

But Trump supporters don’t care about my vote or those of #NeverTrump – as Trump himself has said, we’re a small movement. No, they want us to lie alongside them. They want fellow shills. They want people who will spend all their time either ignoring Trump’s inanities and insanities or excusing them.

Lies are not conservative. Worshipful lies on behalf of a petty authoritarian narcissist are even less conservative.

Voting is one thing. Endorsing, praising, and promoting lies are another.

Here’s the simple fact: were it not for propagandists like Ingraham bellowing nonsense from the rooftops about Donald Trump as God’s gift to conservatism, I’d be far more likely to vote for him. But I cannot in good conscience vote for a man and a movement dedicated to hollowing out the conservative movement from the inside, then using it as a meat puppet for anti-Constitutional conservative, nationalist populist tripe. I believe the only way to defeat Hillary’s agenda is to defeat the left. And the left includes Donald Trump as well as Hillary, which is why I’m not voting for either of them.

Laura Ingraham thinks she’s made a moral choice.

She has: to lie for Trump.

Those who don’t buy her lies aren’t abandoning the Republican Party or the country itself, though Ingraham accuses us of doing just that. We just think it’s immoral to lie. There is good logic and a moral argument for supporting Trump to stop Hillary. There is good logic and a moral argument to skipping the vote altogether, to supporting neither.

There is no logic or morality to lying to your audience.

Those at war with the truth are at war with conservatism.

And those ardent Trump supporters promoting Trump’s lies are the chief obstacle preventing the consolidation of conservatives around their man. They’ve turned a lesser-of-two-evils political decision into a decision about the future of the conservative soul. And they’re on the wrong side.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2016, 11:15:30 pm »
Quote
But Trump supporters don’t care about my vote or those of #NeverTrump – as Trump himself has said, we’re a small movement. No, they want us to lie alongside them. They want fellow shills. They want people who will spend all their time either ignoring Trump’s inanities and insanities or excusing them.

Deep down, the Trump supporters know they've gone down a one-way street, the only way out of which is to turn around and admit a mistake.  And most of them (including those still left here) are in that group. Those who attend his rallies get angrier, shaking their meaty fists at the press, giving the middle finger to protesters, lashing out at the "tiny" #NeverTrump movement, as Ingraham does above.

Instead of swallowing hard and dumping Trump, they double down or just hide in the corners, waiting for the polls to change (they won't) or just ride this thing out until Trump loses. 

Don't know what happens then, but my fondest wish is that Trump loses big, by at least 8 or 10 points so that Trumpism is killed, buried, and salt is poured over the earth where it lies.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:19:05 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline beandog

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2016, 11:22:40 pm »
tRump supporters are getting crazier by the day.  They sure know how to make enemies and not friends.  Not a good way to win an election.

I'm not sure that his supporters are not crazier than he is.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2016, 11:24:43 pm »

Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2016, 11:28:45 pm »
One thing this election has done, is reveal which pundits actually have conservative principles and which ones apparently just pay lip service to conservatism.
Let it burn.

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2016, 11:33:02 pm »
I think the reason why a lot of Talk Radio shows like Trump is for ratings.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2016, 11:36:34 pm »
I'm not sure that his supporters are not crazier than he is.

I have no doubts, they are.

He's a snake oil salesman who believes in his ability to peddle his product.

They're the gullible public on which he relies for his sales.





Offline goatprairie

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2016, 11:46:50 pm »
One thing this election has done, is reveal which pundits actually have conservative principles and which ones apparently just pay lip service to conservatism.
Yes, this campaign has been an eye opener....a very depressing eye opener. All those "conservative" talk show hosts and pundits who for years/decades told us how important it was to support real moral conservatives then dump on every last one them to support the most immoral, least constitutionally-minded, least conservative Pubbie candidate ever. The mind boggles. How can they look themselves in the mirror?
The biggest disappointment is Rush who knows better and has stated that Trump is not a conservative. Nevertheless, he gave tacit support to Trump through the primaries and now is one of the chief apologists for The Orange Toad's daily gaffes. Rush is almost now totally unlistenable as he toadies up to The Orange Toad.  Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 11:49:00 pm »
Flawlessly logical.

Shapiro eats Ingrahams for lunch.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 11:57:54 pm »
I don't watch much FoxNews, but I just happened to catch Ingraham saying this while flipping channels.

My vote is free for the taking based solely upon merit.  I remember a day when the GOP was the party of merit.  No more.  I am now badgered and demonized for my vote simply because I continue to honor merit.

Ask any Trump supporter to sell you on Trump without mentioning Hillary, Democrats, Pence, primaries, his wealth, etc.  Just sell Trump.  It can't be done.  Within a minute or two, they will bring up Clinton and then begin attacking you for being a Clinton supporter.

I once had respect for Ingraham back when she had integrity.  Now that she has surrendered it, she no longer knows what merit is.
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 11:58:25 pm »
Deep down, the Trump supporters know they've gone down a one-way street, the only way out of which is to turn around and admit a mistake. 

They're just desperate to get us on board to share the guilt at this point.

Trump is going to crater and take out a lot of dinosaurs but us tiny mammals will rise in the absence of the dinosaurs.


Offline Hoodat

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2016, 12:12:42 am »
Quote from: Shapiro
Those at war with the truth are at war with conservatism.

And those ardent Trump supporters promoting Trump’s lies are the chief obstacle preventing the consolidation of conservatives around their man. They’ve turned a lesser-of-two-evils political decision into a decision about the future of the conservative soul. And they’re on the wrong side.

Shapiro knocks another one out of the park.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 04:23:51 am »
Shapiro knocks another one out of the park.

 :amen:

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2016, 04:31:31 am »
I have no doubts, they are.

He's a snake oil salesman who believes in his ability to peddle his product.

Not exactly.

Once upon a time: the parties did sell us snake oil.

This year: The parties are selling us the snakes.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2016, 04:32:37 am »
Flawlessly logical.

Shapiro eats Ingrahams for lunch.

He's going to need relief . . .



"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline livius

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2016, 05:03:45 am »
Another great Shapiro piece. I too have been more disturbed by Trump's followers and their wholesale abandonment of principles than anything else. They laughed at people swooning over Obama, but they're doing the same thing with somebody who is equally or possibly even more unworthy of it. I still want to know - where's the magic?  What do they see in this spoiled brat, not very bright, completely non-conservative lunatic?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2016, 09:40:54 am »
One thing this election has done, is reveal which pundits actually have conservative principles and which ones apparently just pay lip service to conservatism.
It has proven to be an incredible litmus test of true conservatism, not just among voters, but politicians and pundits alike.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2016, 12:25:57 pm »
...but my fondest wish is that Trump loses big, by at least 8 or 10 points so that Trumpism is killed, buried, and salt is poured over the earth where it lies.

I understand the sentiment,  but i think it is dangerous as a "fondest wish".

First, Trumpism is really a personality cult, not an ideology.  It is sustained by him alone.  If he loses, even by 0.5 percent, it's over.  He's too old to run again, and has already said he's just going to go happily back to private life if he's losing.   So an 8-10 point loss accomplishes nothing extra in that regard.

But the downside is very real.  To achieve that large a loss is going to take a focus on his weaknesses to the exclusion of Hillary's.  And that is horribly dangerous for the Senate, because normally, the winner has coattails.  Our mission has to be giving Hillary negative coattails by concentrating on her flaws.   Convince voters that even if they don't like Trump, they need to realize how horrible she ia, and the need for restrain by a GOP Senate.

I don't like Trump, and was leaning towards not voting for him until i saw so many Republicans firing all their ammo in his direction, which has the (perhaps) unintended consequnece of letting her off the hook.

As bad as he is, she and her ideas are still deserving of vocal opposition even if you're not voting for him.  So for me, the "destroy Trump" movement that wants a Hillary landslide (because that is litterally what you are advocating) is dangerous enough that it pushed me into supporting him.

Jist to be clear - I have no issie with those not voting for Trump.  I do have have issues with those who want a Hillary landslide.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 12:27:42 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Applewood

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2016, 01:59:36 pm »
Deep down, the Trump supporters know they've gone down a one-way street, the only way out of which is to turn around and admit a mistake.  And most of them (including those still left here) are in that group. Those who attend his rallies get angrier, shaking their meaty fists at the press, giving the middle finger to protesters, lashing out at the "tiny" #NeverTrump movement, as Ingraham does above.

Instead of swallowing hard and dumping Trump, they double down or just hide in the corners, waiting for the polls to change (they won't) or just ride this thing out until Trump loses. 

Don't know what happens then, but my fondest wish is that Trump loses big, by at least 8 or 10 points so that Trumpism is killed, buried, and salt is poured over the earth where it lies.

Unfortunately, Trump fans have already been prepared for defeat.  The campaign has told them that if Trump loses, it will be the fault of Ted Cruz, anyone who won't vote for Trump or support him, and the media - everyone, but Trump and his minions.  I expect that should Trump lose, the persecution of Trump opponents will only get worse. 

Offline TomSea

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2016, 02:01:22 pm »
Quote
Americans must realize that empire isn't a choice: It's a duty.
http://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2005/08/10/why_war_in_iraq_is_right_for_america

Thanks Ben "Neo-Con" Shapiro. Really trustworthy.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2016, 02:01:37 pm »
Unfortunately, Trump fans have already been prepared for defeat.  The campaign has told them that if Trump loses, it will be the fault of Ted Cruz, anyone who won't vote for Trump or support him, and the media - everyone, but Trump and his minions.  I expect that should Trump lose, the persecution of Trump opponents will only get worse.

There's not a lot I would bet on more confidently.
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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2016, 02:05:33 pm »
Quote
I have never made and will never make the argument that it is immoral for people to vote for Trump to stop Hillary. I understand that argument completely, and sympathize with it. But lying for Trump is immoral. Pretending his boo-boos aren’t boo-boos is immoral. Pretending he’s something he’s not, and lying to your audience about it – that’s immoral. And most of all, pretending that those who make a different risk-reward calculation from yours are immoral – even while those people hold supposedly similar principles – is immoral.


Yes indeed!  Entirely!
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Offline uglybiker

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2016, 02:10:58 pm »
I have no doubts, they are.

He's a snake oil salesman who believes in his ability to peddle his product.

They're the gullible public on which he relies for his sales.



Might as well have some music to go with that pic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPoIHzAvYJc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPoIHzAvYJc
nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!!!

Offline Eowyn

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2016, 02:15:45 pm »


I don't like Trump, and was leaning towards not voting for him until i saw so many Republicans firing all their ammo in his direction, which has the (perhaps) unintended consequnece of letting her off the hook.

As bad as he is, she and her ideas are still deserving of vocal opposition even if you're not voting for him.  So for me, the "destroy Trump" movement that wants a Hillary landslide (because that is literally what you are advocating) is dangerous enough that it pushed me into supporting him.

Jist to be clear - I have no issie with those not voting for Trump.  I do have have issues with those who want a Hillary landslide.

 :thumbsup:

I wish they could both lose.


Offline musiclady

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Re: Laura Ingraham Successfully Persuades Me Not To Vote For Donald Trump
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2016, 02:27:09 pm »
I don't watch much FoxNews, but I just happened to catch Ingraham saying this while flipping channels.

My vote is free for the taking based solely upon merit.  I remember a day when the GOP was the party of merit.  No more.  I am now badgered and demonized for my vote simply because I continue to honor merit.

Ask any Trump supporter to sell you on Trump without mentioning Hillary, Democrats, Pence, primaries, his wealth, etc.  Just sell Trump.  It can't be done.  Within a minute or two, they will bring up Clinton and then begin attacking you for being a Clinton supporter.

I once had respect for Ingraham back when she had integrity.  Now that she has surrendered it, she no longer knows what merit is.

I'm beginning to wonder if any of the "conservative" pundits forcing Trump down our throats ever HAD integrity.

Frankly the accusation of being "immoral" because I'm not voting for Trump is bizarre.

I took a lot of abuse here early on because I continued to detail Trump's serial and boastful adultery, and was called "sanctimonious."  I was also accused of calling Trump supporters "immoral"............ which I never, ever did.

But now, I guarantee those same people who criticized me are loving that Ingraham is calling ME "immoral."

The irony is more than I can bear.

Donald Trump has truly made his devout followers lose their sense of right and wrong....
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