Author Topic: You Knew Damn Well Trump was a Snake Before You Let Him In  (Read 8155 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: You Knew Damn Well Trump was a Snake Before You Let Him In
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2016, 07:23:40 pm »
Excellent discussion.  One quibble, though.

Cruz didn't get along with those who would not stand against Obama and the Dems in the Senate, who were reneging on their oath of office to uphold and protect the Constitution, and selling out their constituents and the American People. To me, that's a virtue, not a fault, and I want someone with the sand to stand on principle and fight for that. I have little doubt that the likes of John Boehner 'got along' just fine and were invited to all the 'right' cocktail parties, but is that what they were supposed to be doing in DC?

It is certainly endlessly frustrating to see those guys give in to Obama time after time, apparently because they're afraid of and/or unable to carry the fight into the media.  The question is, though: how might a man with leadership aspirations stiffen their spines?  Not by pissing on their shoes, that's for sure.  All that does is keep him on the outside, no matter how good his ideas might be.  So, IMO, Cruz's intransigence looks to be his biggest problem.  He's so certain he's right, that he's booted his chance at forming a coalition.  And so he is ineffective in the Senate.  He's young, though -- only two years into his term, and thus maybe too arrogant about his prospects.  Perhaps he can learn a lesson.

There are ways to get things done among people with whom you have disagreements.  Let's compare Cruz to Reagan -- the most effective conservative to have served as president. 
Years ago I had a friend who said of Reagan, "you couldn't elect a more conservative man.  There are a number of ways to read that sentence, and each of them is true in some way.

The thing is, although an undoubted conservative, Reagan wasn't the most conservative guy out there; and he was willing to be flexible in order to get things done.  And Reagan made a point to get along with guys like Tip O'Neil, and even worked with him to a certain extent, to achieve results.  Reagan knew what was important, and knew that in politics, getting closer to the desired end is generally better than moving farther away from it, even if you have to give something up in return.

He was the sort of guy who was willing to move the line a bit on every play -- but that required him to horse trade in various ways.  His results were not uniformly conservative, but he had and kept his eyes on a couple of very big prizes (winning the cold war, tax cuts), and to make progress he knew he had to give in, in other areas (increased domestic spending, acceptance of large deficits). 

Cruz has the principles down pat, I'll give him that.  But he's not a dictator: he has to work with others to get things done.  He doesn't do that ... and so he doesn't get things done.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,712
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: You Knew Damn Well Trump was a Snake Before You Let Him In
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2016, 08:04:46 pm »
Excellent discussion.  One quibble, though.

It is certainly endlessly frustrating to see those guys give in to Obama time after time, apparently because they're afraid of and/or unable to carry the fight into the media.  The question is, though: how might a man with leadership aspirations stiffen their spines?  Not by pissing on their shoes, that's for sure.  All that does is keep him on the outside, no matter how good his ideas might be.  So, IMO, Cruz's intransigence looks to be his biggest problem.  He's so certain he's right, that he's booted his chance at forming a coalition.  And so he is ineffective in the Senate.  He's young, though -- only two years into his term, and thus maybe too arrogant about his prospects.  Perhaps he can learn a lesson.

There are ways to get things done among people with whom you have disagreements.  Let's compare Cruz to Reagan -- the most effective conservative to have served as president. 
Years ago I had a friend who said of Reagan, "you couldn't elect a more conservative man.  There are a number of ways to read that sentence, and each of them is true in some way.

The thing is, although an undoubted conservative, Reagan wasn't the most conservative guy out there; and he was willing to be flexible in order to get things done.  And Reagan made a point to get along with guys like Tip O'Neil, and even worked with him to a certain extent, to achieve results.  Reagan knew what was important, and knew that in politics, getting closer to the desired end is generally better than moving farther away from it, even if you have to give something up in return.

He was the sort of guy who was willing to move the line a bit on every play -- but that required him to horse trade in various ways.  His results were not uniformly conservative, but he had and kept his eyes on a couple of very big prizes (winning the cold war, tax cuts), and to make progress he knew he had to give in, in other areas (increased domestic spending, acceptance of large deficits). 

Cruz has the principles down pat, I'll give him that.  But he's not a dictator: he has to work with others to get things done.  He doesn't do that ... and so he doesn't get things done.
While Cruz could learn more finesse, I don't think the comparison to Reagan is fair in one aspect.
That, not so much the principles of Cruz or Reagan, nor their methodology, but those they have adversarial relationships with.

While Reagan was not the GOP's intended, the GOP would not turn against him conspicuously. There was party solidarity.
By contrast, Cruz was doing the bidding, for the most part, of those who elected him, and the members of his own party who were often elected on promises of doing the same were fighting him. Not the Democrats (more on them in a second), but the Republicans. Reagan didn't have to face that opposition. Tip O'Neil was less of a Democrat by today's standards than McConnell or Boehner.

Also, as for the Democrats, the Democrats Reagan faced still, by and large, paid some sort of lip service to the Constitution and the USA. Yes, the inroads being made by the New Left into the Democrat Party were showing through that thin fabric here and there, but some semblance of patriotism was maintained in the face of the USSR and other Cold War adversaries.

Not so now, where the Democrats are all in against this country with Marxist philosophies and deals with our enemies in times of war, even with people connected to the Muslim Brotherhood tied in at vvery high levels in the Administration.

Cruz faced two enemies, a GOP at least as hostile as the Democrats Reagan faced, and the Democrats themselves, now a cabal of Marxists, special interests, and Islamic enablers.

Unfortunately, while Cruz stands slightly to the Right of Reagan, the rest of the political landscape has moved hard to the Left. To many of us who have not changed our principles, either, that stance Cruz has appeals. To those who have gone spiraling to the Left of Reagan, viewing Reagan as the epitome of the Right and moving 'toward the middle (to the Left)' from there, Cruz seems more extreme than he really is.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 08:07:22 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis