So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

[INVAR]

The Party is the aggregate of its people.  The Republican Party was once the radical party - a radical defense of individual liberties, when challenging the issue of Slavery.  That issue, that view, that of the sovereign individual, was what America was founded on; and with time it was no longer radical.

Reagan defended those same principles; but by that time they were not only institutionalized but viewed by the Left as belonging in the past.

And it seems to have come to be.  Now BOTH parties are either controlled by the Left or on close-personal terms with them.  Yes, Reagan would not recognize this party.  His disciples today are booed, mocked, slandered.  There is no room in this party for traditional American values, the ones we were founded on.

Just as there is no room anymore in mainstream America for them.

Create a new party, and the same Political Elites, the same lifers, the same covert Leftist operatives, will ooze into it.  And quickly.  Control of political processes IS their LIFE; and they will not miss a chance to infect a new movement.

The problem, as always, is not with the party; or with the law; or with the gun; or with the process.  The problem IS THE PEOPLE.

Or to quote two Founders who implicitly understood the fragility of the system they emplaced to protect the liberties of the people:

"'Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.  It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other". - John Adams

We are no longer a virtuous, moral and religious people.

Period.

We are become corrupt and vicious, and this is why we are being maneuvered into a cell of central tyranny.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Their silence has doomed us to being overrun, complacent and fundamentally transformed.

The fruits speak to the fact that Conservatives are now, completely irrelevant.  Demographics themselves have changed as has the culture they sat silent upon while it was dragged into the hedonist cesspool.

Those chances have now been squandered and lost.  Few to none are going to risk what is necessary to maintain what liberty we have left.  More than half the population wants what the silent majority have stood by and let become entrenched in mind, body, soul and nation.

If this silent majority truly opposed what we have become, they would have risen long ago.  Now it is divided, leaderless and powerless.  They themselves cannot agree on what the definition of liberty is.

Today they go along to get along for the sake of being busy with their lives so as to be left alone, hoping the alligator eats them last.

As Adams prophetically wrote: "Liberty lost is lost forever.  When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it."

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke. Also the old saying: Silence is consent.

@roamer_1 I'm pretty cynical about this. I'm afraid the silent majority has become a bunch of old white Alt-right folks and people who want their share of the federal pie instead of freedom. Or people who can't be bother to get away from their magic box and think for themselves and know why they believe in freedoms and rights. Look at how much of the conservative movement is following Trump down the path to liberalism. They make excuses for things that should never be tolerated. Many see no other choice and for now they have't lost my total respect, but I wonder will we ever come back from that path.
 
God told Elijah there were 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to baal; but sometimes I'd like a mailing list.

[roamer_1]

If this silent majority truly opposed what we have become, they would have risen long ago.  Now it is divided, leaderless and powerless.  They themselves cannot agree on what the definition of liberty is.

Today they go along to get along for the sake of being busy with their lives so as to be left alone, hoping the alligator eats them last.

As Adams prophetically wrote: "Liberty lost is lost forever.  When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it."

It only takes a leader, then suddenly, Reagan.
It only takes a spark. Then suddenly, Chik-Fil-A.
It only takes a bridge too far, and suddenly, the Bundy Ranch.

The signs are still there. And in that, I will remain optimistic.
If the worst will come, then it will come - It costs me nothing to hope within the midst of it.

[sinkspur]

This Trump thing has no ground game:

[unknown]

You believe him I don't.

At its root the basic problem I have with Trump is that in his personal life he has displayed an amoral life style that would do an alley cat proud. He is  a serial adulterer who brags of his conquests of his married friends wives. I still have young kids and their is no way in the world I would want them to emulate or respect an individual such as Trump.

There is a wise old  saying "if his wife can't  trust him why should I"

If Trump's past indicated he was an honest, moral individual I might believe the things he says, but his history tells me  that I would be a fool to trust anything he says..........

I fully understand, and I can accept, and I can appreciate your stance on this. I have no quarrel with your take on this issue.

[roamer_1]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” -Edmund Burke. Also the old saying: Silence is consent.

@Idaho_Cowboy , it has always been thus.

@roamer_1 I'm pretty cynical about this. I'm afraid the silent majority has become a bunch of old white Alt-right folks and people who want their share of the federal pie instead of freedom. Or people who can't be bother to get away from their magic box and think for themselves and know why they believe in freedoms and rights.

I don't see that to be quite as endemic as you do. In the young, yes, it's true. But it has always been true among the young. Idealism can be afforded, so long as someone else is paying the bills. But as Maggie Thatcher brilliantly concluded, "Sooner or later you run out of other people's money."

The sharp edge of reality will invariably intervene.

Look at how much of the conservative movement is following Trump down the path to liberalism. They make excuses for things that should never be tolerated. Many see no other choice and for now they have't lost my total respect, but I wonder will we ever come back from that path.

Frankly, I see very little of that - Taking FR as an example, There are but a handful that I considered to be Conservatives that drank the orange koolaid. Granted, some see 'no other choice', as you have opined... many still hold their noses and bow to the big rhinestone 'R'... But a very few actually drank the koolaid. The fact of the matter is that far more of those who I considered true to Conservatism cried 'Oh, hell no!' and wound up here - I could almost predict the who and the how of it.
It was, in the midst of this peril, a very beautiful thing. And here we stand, largely unharmed, and it is FR that is injured.

Now, all you need to do is extrapolate that into the public at large.

God told Elijah there were 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to baal; but sometimes I'd like a mailing list.

I well understand that what is needful is a repentant spirit in America - and your quote is apropos... Do not forget that Elijah saw his nation repent - at least for a while. Hope springs eternal.

[XenaLee]

That is yet to be seen.
I must have more faith in the folks than most here...
The homo movement looks big because they are loud. But they are only 2-3%...

Generally, Conservatives are not loud. They are too busy with their lives. They are and have always been the silent majority.
Given the chance, when they rise, they win. Unstoppable. I don't think that's changed a whit.

Unstoppable in what way?  Towards what goal/aim?   Have you seen any evidence of this lately?  Please share, if so.

[GtHawk]

To put it differently, I don't believe that all the other Republican members of Congress who disliked Cruz did so because of his policy beliefs.  His mannerisms suggest that either you agree with him, or you favor the destruction of the country.  You cannot convince fence-sitters with that attitude.

Okay, so help me out here, aside from Cruz being smarter, more educated in the Constitution and the understanding of how our government works and having a real knowledge of our allies, enemies and what is going on in the world, I read your comment and see no difference between Trump and Cruz in your example. I dislike Trump, not so much because of some of his policy beliefs or lack thereof, but because he actually says that either you agree with him, or you are for the destruction of the country. And that's why there are no fence sitters for Trump, because of his attitude, some would say megalomania. I like the rest of us have lived thru eight years of a dicktator, and I have no intention of voting for either one of the  new applicants.

[INVAR]

It only takes a leader, then suddenly, Reagan.
It only takes a spark. Then suddenly, Chik-Fil-A.
It only takes a bridge too far, and suddenly, the Bundy Ranch.

The signs are still there. And in that, I will remain optimistic.
If the worst will come, then it will come - It costs me nothing to hope within the midst of it.

If all your faith is hinged to optimistic hopes, your faith will fail when the worst comes.  Psalm 146:3

And that is why I spend my days attempting to prep the mindset of the people to acknowledge. 

I had a hard lesson to learn about the frailty of our flawed American prosperity mindset while in the cesspool of the third world and witnessed firsthand, the kinds of suffering and tyranny that we are fast adopting that are normal life elsewhere.

The lesson impressed was enduring to the end with our faith in the Lord intact, the most crucial thing to us now.

Putting faith in the governments of men supported by a wicked and wayward people is not an option if that faith is to remain intact when the worst does come.

[Bigun]

So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

That the GOP has no use for conservatives!

[roamer_1]

Unstoppable in what way?  Towards what goal/aim?   Have you seen any evidence of this lately?  Please share, if so.

Politically? TEA Party and Cruz. Far greater impact than reported, beginning in the midterm. It was an EPIC overturning, right down into the county level. People forget so soon.

Socially? Chik-Fil-A, boycotts that nearly shut down JC Penney, and that Target is feeling even now... Most of the burgeoning Home-schooling movement is Christian and Conservative...

I will grant you that it is amorphous, largely due to the Republicans betraying Conservatives, intentional and unlawful Judicial decisions, and emphasis on the decay within old guard Christian debominations... But there's another side to that coin.

[montanajoe]

I fully understand, and I can accept, and I can appreciate your stance on this. I have no quarrel with your take on this issue.

A thoughtful response from a Trump supporter, I appreciate that (being so presumptuous that anyone would care), IMO, your response is the only way your candidate has a chance. Listening and addressing the views of those having legitimate disagreements with Trump only will further his prospects, attacking those who have concerns about him does not..

[roamer_1]

If all your faith is hinged to optimistic hopes, your faith will fail when the worst comes.  Psalm 146:3

But my faith is not hinged upon such, whatsoever... That does not mean that all hope is lost.

And that is why I spend my days attempting to prep the mindset of the people to acknowledge. 

The danger in your position is to let go of all (earthly) hope. Hopelessness is not the fruit of YHWH. We are to work as long as there is light, and when darkness falls, and there is none else to do, then STAND. In as much as there is gathering darkness, there is still much light.

I had a hard lesson to learn about the frailty of our flawed American prosperity mindset while in the cesspool of the third world and witnessed firsthand, the kinds of suffering and tyranny that we are fast adopting that are normal life elsewhere.

The lesson impressed was enduring to the end with our faith in the Lord intact, the most crucial thing to us now.

This 'prosperity mindset' is not American.

Putting faith in the governments of men supported by a wicked and wayward people is not an option if that faith is to remain intact when the worst does come.

Conservatives have never put faith in governments. Government is the problem, according to the Conservative mindset.

You and I are really not that far apart... In the same vein that while I am not a 'prepper' I DO set aside stores, simply in the same manner that is natural in and among the Americans who live in the country... I don't need doom and gloom to know to prepare... Certainly prepare for the worst.

But to lose all hope is to cede the field.
I will continue to seed the field. Quite often, dark clouds bring the rain.

[Smokin Joe]

What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

That many Self-Identifying Conservatives are easily-deceived chumps.

That self-identifying Conservatives are just as gullible in attaching themselves to liberal cults of personality as the Leftists are.  That self-identifying Conservatives are just as quick to establish an intolerant quasi-religious fervor of zealotry demanding obeisance to a king to rule per their desires and punish those they blame and hate.

That self-identifying Conservatives will willfully overlook, ignore, excuse and massage their champion's failures, liberalism and lies in order to make them their king.

That principles are passé and irrelevant when expedience and fear triumph.

That a vast majority of self-identifying Conservatives see politics as just another sporting event to get wrapped up in.

That we are easily divided because a majority of those who self-identity as Conservatives never really were. 

That the vast majority of the population want Socialism/Marxism/Communism/Fascism and to punish those that have more than they do.

That the Trump Militant hates principled Conservatives who will not vote the way they demand more than they hate principled Leftists who are voting for Hillary.

That some of the rabid Trump militant promises to 'remember' and kill the above for treason, "when the time comes".

That the vast majority have a fatal case of Normalcy Bias and refuse to comprehend what we have already been fundamentally transformed into, having lost the culture and the republic they vaunt political messiahs they falsely believe will save us.

That the Trump thing and the Hillary thing are actually the same thing.

That is what I learned from this Trump thing.

Outstanding post. It explains the reason making progress against creeping Progressivism has been so difficult. The GOP has ever had its own cadre of closet totalitarians who would subvert the very foundations of our Government if they could just get their guy in power. Now, they are out of the closet.

[rodamala]

So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

That I am not a Republican.

[Smokin Joe]

Hillary Clinton: Force Christians to Change Their Religious Views to Support Abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/04/27/hillary-clinton-force-christians-to-change-their-religious-views-to-support-abortion/

Hillary Clinton: Christians In America Must Deny Their Faith In Christianity, Adhere To New Liberal Laws
http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2016/07/24/hillary-clinton-christians-in-america-must-deny-their-faith-in-christianity-adhere-to-new-liberal-laws.html

Wishful thinking on her part. She cannot force me to change my beliefs, nor to deny my faith. She loses before she starts.

[Smokin Joe]

The Party is the aggregate of its people.  The Republican Party was once the radical party - a radical defense of individual liberties, when challenging the issue of Slavery.  That issue, that view, that of the sovereign individual, was what America was founded on; and with time it was no longer radical.

Reagan defended those same principles; but by that time they were not only institutionalized but viewed by the Left as belonging in the past.

And it seems to have come to be.  Now BOTH parties are either controlled by the Left or on close-personal terms with them.  Yes, Reagan would not recognize this party.  His disciples today are booed, mocked, slandered.  There is no room in this party for traditional American values, the ones we were founded on.

Just as there is no room anymore in mainstream America for them.

Create a new party, and the same Political Elites, the same lifers, the same covert Leftist operatives, will ooze into it.  And quickly.  Control of political processes IS their LIFE; and they will not miss a chance to infect a new movement.

The problem, as always, is not with the party; or with the law; or with the gun; or with the process.  The problem IS THE PEOPLE.

Those who are conservative or who identify with conservatives, wish a political party to do their work for them.  They wish the party to go ahead and produce candidates and movements they approve of - without their effort.

Those who are Leftists, are ACTIVISTS.  This is what they DO; and they find a way to make it pay.  They bore themselves in; and they gain control and they shove things, always, Left.  More government; more regulation; more tax; more interference; always at the cost of personal freedom.

If we want that stopped, WE NEED TO GET IN THERE AND PUSH THOSE LEFTIST VERMIN OUT.

A new party will not, by itself, alone, solve the problem.  Participatory democracy is NOT a spectator sport.

There are plenty of conservatives out here. Millions. But here is the essential problem: For a while now, people have equated being a "Republican" with being Conservative. How do you think the idea of what conservatism is got so polluted with progressive effluent? The GOP was polluted with progressive effluent, and people equated the two.

Now that that veil is stripped away, we can see what we are dealing with. It isn't pretty. Alleged "conservatives" are howling for 'their candidate' and behaving, as their candidate did through the primaries, in anything but a 'conservative' fashion. They want a king, not a President. The person they selected on a basis of attacking all the right sorts of people using the Liberal application of lies, slander, and personal attacks on another candidate's family in a carefully constructed and coordinated campaign of dirty tricks while babbling about 'winning' captured the rage of the masses, enamored them, and formed a cult of personality around himself. Now those same people attack conservatives because we won't back the Republican.

Either I join another party or have none. The Republican Party is not and hasn't been Conservative for a while, has reneged on promises made to conservatives, and has contemptuously decided it is 'entitled' to conservative votes because we have no place else to go.
Eff them. Enough.

I am willing to work to help build that place, a Party which already exists, which uses the Constitution as the basis for its platform, and already embraces Conservative values. Why fight the closet socialists and other totalitarians within the GOP, on their field by their rules when I can just step outside that box and change the game? Join me and a host of others like me. It could be fun, and there is the chance to actually accomplish something.

I, and a multitude of others, have tried for years within the GOP to advance conservative causes, and at best, we have held on to some of our rights. Generally, advancing conservative causes, even rolling back the Marxist progress has met with resistance from within the GOP. The GOP is not my party--it moved away after Reagan. I have no home there, and they are not entitled to my vote, any more than anyone else. They must convince me, they must earn it, either through past actions bolstering future promises, or at least a credible basis to believe promises if new.
Conservatives and others have commented on the Democrat plantation voting bloc(s) for years. Who knew? The Republicans have had a plantation of their own for Conservatives, at best paying lip service, and consistently throwing us under the bus, while feeling so entitled to our vote for whatever slop they feed us that we are attacked for saying "no". This fellow is getting off of that plantation.

Free at last, free at last...because the truth shall set you free.

[JustPassinThru]

So, what, then, Joe?  We go on to the same roaring success that the Losertarians have?

That's not an answer.  The logical move at this time is to form a firm caucus within the Republican Party.  Prepared to work outside the GOP should they continue on with the stunts they've pulled the last twelve years; but ready to work within them as well.

As a caucus representing a large voting bloc, they can swing pressure.  The way the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition did in the 1980s.  Offer our preferred candidates and positions...NOT negotiable.  Let the numbers geeks do the crunching.  Let the donors know that there isn't the support for the Open Borders goofballs.  If they give to them, again, it will be pouring money down a rathole.  Because this new Conservative Coalition will either run their own slate or just sit it out; and they will have what they had with JEB!

Work with them.  Find leaders and organizers and negotiators.  No much; no "compromise"...this is how it is, kids.  You no like, go down the street to the Other Party.

I am anything but an admirer of Trump, but one thing he keeps on proving:  Firmness, resoluteness, WORKS.

[Chosen Daughter]

So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

That people are ruled by fear.  That Christians don't fully understand their Identity in Christ.

[Smokin Joe]

So, what, then, Joe?  We go on to the same roaring success that the Losertarians have?

That's not an answer.  The logical move at this time is to form a firm caucus within the Republican Party. Prepared to work outside the GOP should they continue on with the stunts they've pulled the last twelve years; but ready to work within them as well.

As a caucus representing a large voting bloc, they can swing pressure.  The way the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition did in the 1980s.  Offer our preferred candidates and positions...NOT negotiable.  Let the numbers geeks do the crunching.  Let the donors know that there isn't the support for the Open Borders goofballs.  If they give to them, again, it will be pouring money down a rathole.  Because this new Conservative Coalition will either run their own slate or just sit it out; and they will have what they had with JEB!

Work with them.  Find leaders and organizers and negotiators.  No much; no "compromise"...this is how it is, kids.  You no like, go down the street to the Other Party.

I am anything but an admirer of Trump, but one thing he keeps on proving:  Firmness, resoluteness, WORKS.

We did, for all practical purposes. We called it the TEA party, and it helped put people in office who said they'd do what we wanted. A very few did, most didn't. We made the mistake of equating Republican with Conservative, and that just isn't the case.

You can stay on the Republican Plantation all you want. I am not.

Has it dawned on you yet that Trump didn't win by being tough, but by lying, conniving, and slandering his opponents?
We had a candidate who stood his ground in the Senate, who stood his ground on the issues during the campaign, and the suckers went for the liar. You can't fight that brand of stupid. So, once again, shouting in harmony, the Republican Party has set itself up for a loss. After McCain and Romney, you bring up "losertarians"?  Those losses came from becoming too liberal, and by golly, the Republican Party has once again gone to the Left and nominated a dyed in the wool New York Liberal, one who even supported the campaigns of his opponent!

Is this Bizarro world? How do you fight to change a party when it has gone over to the opposition? It's like bailing out the boat after the deck goes under.

In the Constitution Party platform all the ideas I have tried over the years to get the Republican Party to embrace are right there! Turn-key deal, no remodeling required, and what's more, no overwhelming faction of people who are simply not conservative.
If you like the platform, you are a conservative, Q.E.D., if you don't you may not be. It isn't a question of sacrificing my values or the Constitution to be a member. I don't have to toady up to the party elite at the cost of principle to fit in. There is no need to become a corrupted insider to play. If you are a Conservative, this is the sort of thing you dream of. Lincoln said a house divided against itself cannot stand. I have seen this at the State and local level, too. We didn't even get a presidential primary (or caucus) this year in this state, and that not only adds to my disgust, but to my resolve as well.
Let the Republicans go the way of the Whigs. I'm too damned old to spend another day trying to save a ship so determined to sink.

[roamer_1]

Is this Bizarro world? How do you fight to change a party when it has gone over to the opposition? It's like bailing out the boat after the deck goes under.

Apt. <--- By the way, I claim the shortest sentence ever...

Some would say all we need is a bigger bucket... Let them. The truth will dawn eventually.
good post.

[Sanguine]

That the GOP has no use for conservatives!

Short and sweet and right on target!

[sneakypete]

So, what, then, Joe?  We go on to the same roaring success that the Losertarians have?

That's not an answer.  The logical move at this time is to form a firm caucus within the Republican Party.  Prepared to work outside the GOP should they continue on with the stunts they've pulled the last twelve years; but ready to work within them as well.

@JustPassinThru

It may be logical,but it is also wrong. The alleged Republican Party is flat-out owned as a subsidiary of the Dim Party,and because of that the leadership will always keep any actual conservatives pushed away into the darkest corners of the darkest rooms,while trotting corrupted weasels like the Bush traitors and John McLunatic to the front.

Who the hell ever won a war by surrendering to the control of the enemy?

The ONLY hope of restoring conservatism as a voice in America is to do it as an independent organization.

[aligncare]

What I have learned is how devious the media and Democrats are and how focused they are on their talking points.

Donald Trump has been in the public eye for over 35 years, all over the media, newspapers and magazine articles, frequently mentioned on television and radio. And in all that time, not one person, of any color, ever accused Mr. Trump of being a racist. In fact the opposite is true: Mr. Trump is colorblind and ethnicity neutral, his company has never had any issues with EEOC.

He announces his candidacy and instantly, miraculously, he's transformed from an average Joe on race relations into a raging cross between Hitler and Bull Connor. Yes, the democrat media is slimy.

And the kicker is, there are Republicans upon whom this works and some of them throw in with the NeverTrump Democrats. Yeah, crazy, I know.

[Bigun]

So, what, then, Joe?  We go on to the same roaring success that the Losertarians have?

That's not an answer.  The logical move at this time is to form a firm caucus within the Republican Party.  Prepared to work outside the GOP should they continue on with the stunts they've pulled the last twelve years; but ready to work within them as well.

As a caucus representing a large voting bloc, they can swing pressure.  The way the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition did in the 1980s.  Offer our preferred candidates and positions...NOT negotiable.  Let the numbers geeks do the crunching.  Let the donors know that there isn't the support for the Open Borders goofballs.  If they give to them, again, it will be pouring money down a rathole.  Because this new Conservative Coalition will either run their own slate or just sit it out; and they will have what they had with JEB!

Work with them.  Find leaders and organizers and negotiators.  No much; no "compromise"...this is how it is, kids.  You no like, go down the street to the Other Party.

I am anything but an admirer of Trump, but one thing he keeps on proving:  Firmness, resoluteness, WORKS.

Already been done!  That is EXACTLY how the Libertarian party came into being!