Author Topic: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?  (Read 30770 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2016, 05:45:59 pm »
People despise Cruz because he represents the Constitution and the principals and morals upon which this country was founded....

I don't despise Cruz, but neither do I trust him.  He is far too ambitious for my taste, with far too little in the way of actual accomplishment to justify it.

As for people in general, I don't think they "despise" Cruz -- that's just another example of the hyperbole that has replaced serious discussion these days.

But I do think there's something about Cruz that turns people off -- his mannerisms, the way he looks, a sense that he's putting up a false front, I don't know.  But there's something about the guy.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2016, 05:48:15 pm »
What have we learned?

That people will happily buy a shit sandwich if it's packaged right.

On receiving said shit sandwich, people will demand you pay for it too.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2016, 05:48:56 pm »
People despise Cruz because he represents the Constitution and the principals and morals upon which this country was founded.  Our public school system, the MSM and the DEM party have convinced the masses that the Constitution was written too long ago to be applicable to modern society and the principals and morals upon which this country was founded are no longer politically correct.  Blatant lying and denying  by the left has become acceptable and so common place that their lies and deceptions are now mistaken as the truth.

All that is absolutely true.

And that is why Cruz, who represents the basis on which the country was founded is now the one who is "different."

Trump, who is bashing conservatism and morality, is the "same old" garbage we've been dealing with since the left succeeded in their 60's revolution to destroy everything we hold dear.

He, in fact, is the manifestation of the goals of the left to remove all decency from our culture.

And yet, his tripe is gobbled up by the gullible............ or the leftists who have successfully infiltrated the Republican party.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2016, 05:53:16 pm »
And that is why Cruz, who represents the basis on which the country was founded is now the one who is "different."

Our differences about Cruz aside, that's perhaps the presenting issue here.  Why should you assume that today's society still buys into the principles on which the country was founded? 

Offline Resp3

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 546
  • Gender: Male
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2016, 05:53:37 pm »
What have we learned?

That people will happily buy a shit sandwich if it's packaged right.

On receiving said shit sandwich, people will demand you pay for it too.


A shit sandwich????


Offline Doug Loss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,360
  • Gender: Male
  • Proud Tennessean
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2016, 05:53:46 pm »
The conservative wing of the party did not present a good candidate.  Yes, I know that a ton of people love Ted Cruz, and I certainly preferred him to Trump.  But Ted's core problem as a politician is that he only preaches to the converted.  He has a style and mannerisms that alienate a lot of people unnecessarily, and so his appeal outside of core conservatives is very, very limited.  You cannot win the nomination or a general election with only core conservatives.  So either he needs to improve as a candidate, or we need a different candidate next time.

That's not quite true, though.  Cruz was fought against in a very despicable manner by Trump and his minions, but also by the entirety of the GOP establishment.  Saying that we "did not present a good candidate" is just untrue.  What we learned from all this is that the GOP will never let another conservative in the style of Reagan become their presidential nominee, now that they've successfully walked back Reaganism (by their lights) from the bowels of their organization.  What we've also learned is that a very large group of conservatives now realize that the term "RINO" applies to conservatives rather than to the statist hierarchy of the GOP.  All that's left is to acknowledge that to ourselves and pick up stakes and move to a party that actually wants to follow the principles we consider inviolate.
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2016, 05:54:00 pm »
Through 44 posts, the ONE thing not present, is the slightest admission of how screwed up the GOP and so-called "conservatism" have become.

Almost every post reads thusly: "We are okay, you are not." (That is "denial", e.g. defense of the status quo)

The reason Trump and populism won, is total rejection of "same old, same old."

But your responses are "same old, same old," nonetheless.   You cannot admit, Trump figured it out, when nobody else did.

And on the 45th post we learn more little things that lead us to believe that you were never Conservative and probably a RINO. 

Your trashing of Conservatives in this thread proves it.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

geronl

  • Guest
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2016, 05:56:41 pm »
with far too little in the way of actual accomplishment to justify it.


and we have all seen the conservative leadership and activism that Trump has done before he started running for President, right?? lol  :silly: :silly: :silly:

Offline Doug Loss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,360
  • Gender: Male
  • Proud Tennessean
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2016, 06:05:34 pm »
I never said it was easy.  That's why we haven't been able to elect another Reagan.

Actually, the reason we haven't been able to elect another Reagan is that the GOP hierarchy is absolutely determined to never let anyone like Reagan ever again become their nominee.

As it is, I think Ted dug himself a bit of a whole with his convention speech to anyone not already in his camp.

From the reports I've seen, pretty much the opposite is true.
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2016, 06:43:22 pm »
Cruz was fought against in a very despicable manner by Trump and his minions, but also by the entirety of the GOP establishment.  Saying that we "did not present a good candidate" is just untrue.

Even if Cruz said all the right things, it is not enough simply to say them. 

You're assuming that Cruz was a "good candidate" in the first place; however, events would indicate otherwise.  Cruz's problem was that, when attacked, he seemed smaller when he needed to seem bigger: not the sort of man you want as the leader of the free world. 

On that count, a comparison of Cruz to Reagan is not flattering.  Reagan, too, was attacked despicably by the media and the GOP establishment.  However, he had the both the background and personal qualities that allowed him to absorb the attacks -- he handled the attacks in a way that made the other guys seem small.

Quote
What we learned from all this is that the GOP will never let another conservative in the style of Reagan become their presidential nominee, now that they've successfully walked back Reaganism (by their lights) from the bowels of their organization.

That's not correct.  Reagan became the GOP presidential nominee over the strident objections of the GOP establishment of the day (the so-called Rockefeller wing of the party).  He did so by building both an intellectual platform and a political machine that was able to beard the establishment lion in its den.  Reagan's candidacy was the culmination of years of patient effort by Reagan and by a host of others.  Contrast to Cruz (or Obama), who announced his candidacy for president after only a couple of years in the Senate.

Quote
What we've also learned is that a very large group of conservatives now realize that the term "RINO" applies to conservatives rather than to the statist hierarchy of the GOP.  All that's left is to acknowledge that to ourselves and pick up stakes and move to a party that actually wants to follow the principles we consider inviolate.

You've used a bunch of terms that have no clear meaning; most particularly, "the principles we consider inviolate."  I submit that the GOP no longer recognizes any such principles; nor, apparently, do "conservatives."

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2016, 06:52:40 pm »
And on the 45th post we learn more little things that lead us to believe that you were never Conservative and probably a RINO. 

Your trashing of Conservatives in this thread proves it.

Trashing conservatives? No. Discussing this election cycle. Yes.

My preferences at the start were neither Trump or Cruz. If we turned back the clock and started again, my preferences would be neither Trump or Cruz.

They were Walker and Perry.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,924
  • Gender: Male
  • Ride for the Brand - Joshua 24:15
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2016, 07:01:31 pm »
Way too many people are distracted by shiny crap.

Way too may people are ready to jump on whichever bandwagon happens to be passing by.

Way too many people trust what a candidate says, without any reasonable assurance he will DO what he says.

Way too many people conflate Conservatism with the Republican Party.

Way to many people make voting decisions based upon fear.
:amen:
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2016, 07:03:47 pm »
Trashing conservatives? No. Discussing this election cycle. Yes.

My preferences at the start were neither Trump or Cruz. If we turned back the clock and started again, my preferences would be neither Trump or Cruz.

They were Walker and Perry.

You weren't discussing Conservatism...you were disparaging it.

Yeah sure you'd have picked someone other that Trump.

Your actions betray your empty words.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2016, 07:06:59 pm »
Nah, truth_seeker was definitely Walker - Perry at first. We were the only two real Perry fans on the forum.  :tongue2:
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2016, 07:19:49 pm »
And on the 45th post we learn more little things that lead us to believe that you were never Conservative and probably a RINO. 

Your trashing of Conservatives in this thread proves it.

truth_seeker has always bashed social conservatives.  He denies hating us, but he certainly doesn't like us much.

I think he's happy to see conservatism take it on the chin by this "populist" moron he now supports.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 07:23:57 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

geronl

  • Guest
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2016, 07:22:15 pm »
Even if Cruz said all the right things, it is not enough simply to say them. 


Cruz has spent his entire career fighting for conservatism.

Somehow it is enough for Trump just to say stuff, though, after spending his life funding and supporting the left.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2016, 07:28:12 pm »
Cruz has spent his entire career fighting for conservatism.

Somehow it is enough for Trump just to say stuff, though, after spending his life funding and supporting the left.

Like all demagogues, Trump had the easier task.  But that still doesn't make Cruz a good candidate.

Offline montanajoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,324
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2016, 07:34:23 pm »
So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

1. There are a lot fewer Conservatives out there than I thought.

2. Choosing the lesser of two evils election cycle after election cycle got us here.

3. Americans as a whole seem to want a more and more dysfunctional political process and want politicians to entertain rather than govern.

4. Nothing is going to change

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2016, 07:36:21 pm »
Like all demagogues, Trump had the easier task.  But that still doesn't make Cruz a good candidate.

But Cruz gives good speeches. And he is very ambitious.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,924
  • Gender: Male
  • Ride for the Brand - Joshua 24:15
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2016, 07:43:26 pm »
Our differences about Cruz aside, that's perhaps the presenting issue here.  Why should you assume that today's society still buys into the principles on which the country was founded?
Should we change if it has? Right and wrong have not changed. Truth has not changed and I will not change.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,924
  • Gender: Male
  • Ride for the Brand - Joshua 24:15
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2016, 07:47:45 pm »
Cruz has spent his entire career fighting for conservatism.

Somehow it is enough for Trump just to say stuff, though, after spending his life funding and supporting the left.
I will never understand that one. It's as silly as a guy who admits to bribing politicians to get things down being an 'outsider'.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2016, 07:48:06 pm »
Like all demagogues, Trump had the easier task.  But that still doesn't make Cruz a good candidate.

I'm curious, @r9etb, @truth_seeker, what is it that you found compelling about Perry?  What was it that you supported?

Online Maj. Bill Martin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,902
  • Gender: Male
  • I'll make Mincemeat out of 'em"
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2016, 07:48:51 pm »
That's not quite true, though.  Cruz was fought against in a very despicable manner by Trump and his minions, but also by the entirety of the GOP establishment.  Saying that we "did not present a good candidate" is just untrue.  What we learned from all this is that the GOP will never let another conservative in the style of Reagan become their presidential nominee, now that they've successfully walked back Reaganism (by their lights) from the bowels of their organization.

Then this is a matter of personal taste.  I worked for Reagan in the 1980 primary, and voted for him in '80 and '84.  Cruz does not have Reagan's "style".  He holds many of the same positions, but has a personal style that tends to alienate a lot of people.  That is the exact opposite of Reagan, who mixed conservative believes and resolve with humor and charisma.  Even many people who disliked Reagan's policies liked the man himself.  In contrast, there are a lot of people who like Cruz' policies and still don't like the guy.

To put it differently, I don't believe that all the other Republican members of Congress who disliked Cruz did so because of his policy beliefs.  His mannerisms suggest that either you agree with him, or you favor the destruction of the country.  You cannot convince fence-sitters with that attitude.


Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2016, 07:49:33 pm »
Should we change if it has? Right and wrong have not changed. Truth has not changed and I will not change.

Very noble sentiments.  But if the today's society has adopted different standards, what are you going to do about it?  How are you going to persuade others to go along with you?

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2016, 07:50:25 pm »
But Cruz gives good speeches. And he is very ambitious.

Gotta love Trump's attitude:

Byron York ‏@ByronYork  38s38 seconds ago
Trump in Columbus: 'I could have a very nice life. I don't have to be with you people, ranting and raving.'
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.