So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

[musiclady]

Yeah, we did.  So we need to suck it up, realize what went wrong, and not get all defeatist about it being inevitable next time as well.  The party can be recaptured for conservatives in 2020 if we 1) stick with the fight, and 2) find the right candidate.  That second point is really everything, and it too often gets overlooked/ignored as a reason why we lost this time.  I mean, does someone here want to nominate the "great conservative candidate" that GOP voters have failed to support in recent primaries?  Because I sure as heck haven't seen him/her.  I've seen people who either had the right personality but wrong views, or wrong personality and right views.  It will take good fortune for a conservative to wit the Presidency, and I think some folks are just not comfortable with admitting that reality.

The problem is that we had a plethora of viable candidates this time, and a noisy minority chose the only Democrat running in the primary...

We had a perfect opportunity this time to defend and increase conservatism, to start righting the ship toward Constitutional principles, and the "Republican" party opted for a man who has never even read the Constitution.

I'm not abandoning Conservatism because it's who I am, but I no longer have a political party that represents my values.

[guitar4jesus]

The problem is that we had a plethora of viable candidates this time, and a noisy minority chose the only Democrat running in the primary...

We had a perfect opportunity this time to defend and increase conservatism, to start righting the ship toward Constitutional principles, and the "Republican" party opted for a man who has never even read the Constitution.

I'm not abandoning Conservatism because it's who I am, but I no longer have a political party that represents my values.

 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I find it odd that the party that chose McCain and Romney then chose Trump. It is almost like people new to the party were voting.

Or that there was nobody running in 2008 or 2012 that pushed against illegal immigration and political correctness.  It is very, very unfortunate that there wasn't anyone like that, because that meant Trump had that lane largely to himself.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

-That an unfortunately plurality of people who call themselves "Republicans" are actually either liberals without ethics, or the most gullible people on the face of the earth.

So find a conservative candidate who can communicate well with those people.  That's how you win elections in a democratic system.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

We had a perfect opportunity this time to defend and increase conservatism, to start righting the ship toward Constitutional principles, and the "Republican" party opted for a man who has never even read the Constitution.

The conservative wing of the party did not present a good candidate.  Yes, I know that a ton of people love Ted Cruz, and I certainly preferred him to Trump.  But Ted's core problem as a politician is that he only preaches to the converted.  He has a style and mannerisms that alienate a lot of people unnecessarily, and so his appeal outside of core conservatives is very, very limited.  You cannot win the nomination or a general election with only core conservatives.  So either he needs to improve as a candidate, or we need a different candidate next time.

[Bigun]

   I learned, for certain, that the RNC can be just as STUPID/Liberal as the DNC.

We have learned that for the most part inside the Washington Beltway there is ZERO difference between a republican and a democrat.

[musiclady]

So find a conservative candidate who can communicate well with those people.  That's how you win elections in a democratic system.

Not so easy.  If they are as easily swayed as the Trump following is, the truth doesn't matter.

There was a video clip of Cruz clearly outlining Constitutional Conservatism to a group of Trump followers.  It was intelligent, clear, not condescending, and all the little mob did was scream "LYIN' TED!  LYIN' TED!!"  (blinding regurgitating the lie of their "leader")

We are dealing with a group of people who cannot be won over by logic and reason, no matter how well communicated because their brains have shut off, and their emotions are running wild.

A representative republic requires a moral and informed people to survive, and this election (as have '08 and '12) has proven that we no longer have that in America.

[roamer_1]

So Conservatives, What Have We Learned From This Trump Thing?

Way too many people are distracted by shiny crap.

Way too may people are ready to jump on whichever bandwagon happens to be passing by.

Way too many people trust what a candidate says, without any reasonable assurance he will DO what he says.

Way too many people conflate Conservatism with the Republican Party.

Way to many people make voting decisions based upon fear.

[musiclady]

The conservative wing of the party did not present a good candidate.  Yes, I know that a ton of people love Ted Cruz, and I certainly preferred him to Trump.  But Ted's core problem as a politician is that he only preaches to the converted.  He has a style and mannerisms that alienate a lot of people unnecessarily, and so his appeal outside of core conservatives is very, very limited.  You cannot win the nomination or a general election with only core conservatives.  So either he needs to improve as a candidate, or we need a different candidate next time.

I was just talking about this the other day....  I believe that Ted will improve his delivery in the coming four years.  He's brilliant, and he's caring, so I believe he is also educable.   If he works at reaching out more and sounding less "preachy,"  I believe he will become the perfect candidate.

And I think his speech at the Convention indicated that he's already well on his way to doing just that.

[sinkspur]

The conservative wing of the party did not present a good candidate.  Yes, I know that a ton of people love Ted Cruz, and I certainly preferred him to Trump.  But Ted's core problem as a politician is that he only preaches to the converted.  He has a style and mannerisms that alienate a lot of people unnecessarily, and so his appeal outside of core conservatives is very, very limited.  You cannot win the nomination or a general election with only core conservatives.  So either he needs to improve as a candidate, or we need a different candidate next time.

And this imbecile Trump has proven, over and over, how he alienates not only conservatives but the very people outside the party the GOP needs to win.   His "style" and "mannerisms" are those of an eighth-grade bully.

I'm hoping those who are supporting Trump learn that they cannot foist an ignorant fool on the American voting public.  But I'm afraid they'll blame the rest of us for not seeing their wisdom.

[r9etb]

The party can be recaptured for conservatives in 2020 if we 1) stick with the fight, and 2) find the right candidate.  That second point is really everything, and it too often gets overlooked/ignored as a reason why we lost this time.

And ... 3) Establish an intellectual basis for what "conservative" means.  Let's have those debates in public.  Encourage smart people to hammer it out, and show the world that people who call themselves "conservative" are able not just to form complete sentences, but also fill those sentences with cogent arguments.

Because right now, "conservatives" have been utterly humiliated in a year when we could have ground Hillary Clinton to a fine paste.

[Victoria33]

Schlichter was late to the party but is fully infected these days.

@Cripplecreek

Thanks for saying, "infected".  That made me think of the movie, "Outbreak" where people were infected and would have certain symptoms before they died.  TRUMP IS "INFECTED" WITH NO CURE AND SPREADING THAT INFECTION FAR AND WIDE.  We non-trumpers are as the EMTs (emergency medical technicians) of the nation trying to stop the infection. 

I was an EMT and am doing my best to save souls before they are totally infected.  We non-trumpers are all "Critical Care EMTs" spreading the truth about Trump which is the only way to stop the deadly infection.  Thanks, Cripplecreek, for being a "Critical Care EMT" to save the country.  We need a "Critical Care EMT" badge to wear.
@CatherineofAragon

[sinkspur]

Gallup: this GOP convention is first *ever* where more say they are now less likely to vote for the party's nominee.

[XenaLee]

Not so easy.  If they are as easily swayed as the Trump following is, the truth doesn't matter.

There was a video clip of Cruz clearly outlining Constitutional Conservatism to a group of Trump followers.  It was intelligent, clear, not condescending, and all the little mob did was scream "LYIN' TED!  LYIN' TED!!"  (blinding regurgitating the lie of their "leader")

We are dealing with a group of people who cannot be won over by logic and reason, no matter how well communicated because their brains have shut off, and their emotions are running wild.

A representative republic requires a moral and informed people to survive, and this election (as have '08 and '12) has proven that we no longer have that in America.

Right.  It would seem that we no longer have a "Moral Majority".  More like an immoral majority.  And again....perhaps ....collectively speaking....we deserve the fall that is coming to this nation.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Not so easy.  If they are as easily swayed as the Trump following is, the truth doesn't matter.

I never said it was easy.  That's why we haven't been able to elect another Reagan.  And look, for all Trump's horrendous flaws, we can't overlook that he was loudly right on two major issues -- illegal immigration, and political correctness.  That's where he got his start, and I think those people, while wrong in supporting him overall, were right to support his stance on those particular issues.

We are dealing with a group of people who cannot be won over by logic and reason, no matter how well communicated because their brains have shut off, and their emotions are running wild.

A representative republic requires a moral and informed people to survive, and this election (as have '08 and '12) has proven that we no longer have that in America.

Logic and reason alone are rarely going to be enough. 

I was just talking about this the other day....  I believe that Ted will improve his delivery in the coming four years.  He's brilliant, and he's caring, so I believe he is also educable.   If he works at reaching out more and sounding less "preachy,"  I believe he will become the perfect candidate.

Perhaps.  I have my doubts that someone in their 40's who has been speaking publicly their whole life can change completely their delivery, but I suppose it is possible.  If Ted could marry his brain to Huckabee's folksiness, I suspect he'd already have done so.  But we'll see in 2020.  As it is, I think Ted dug himself a bit of a whole with his convention speech to anyone not already in his camp.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

And this imbecile Trump has proven, over and over, how he alienates not only conservatives but the very people outside the party the GOP needs to win.   His "style" and "mannerisms" are those of an eighth-grade bully.

I agree, which is why he's probably going to lose the election.  But it was enough to win the primary because the people against whom he was running were all flawed in their own ways as well.[/quote]

[XenaLee]

And ... 3) Establish an intellectual basis for what "conservative" means.  Let's have those debates in public.  Encourage smart people to hammer it out, and show the world that people who call themselves "conservative" are able not just to form complete sentences, but also fill those sentences with cogent arguments.

Because right now, "conservatives" have been utterly humiliated in a year when we could have ground Hillary Clinton to a fine paste.

And if Trump had not barged onto the political scene and run as a Republican (his and the Clintons' scathingly brilliant scheme to save the presidency for DemocRats).....we would have ground the rats into a fine paste....as they so richly deserved to be ground....considering the dire and dismal state of our nation and our economy under their ""leadership"".

[Maj. Bill Martin]

And ... 3) Establish an intellectual basis for what "conservative" means.  Let's have those debates in public.  Encourage smart people to hammer it out, and show the world that people who call themselves "conservative" are able not just to form complete sentences, but also fill those sentences with cogent arguments.

Because right now, "conservatives" have been utterly humiliated in a year when we could have ground Hillary Clinton to a fine paste.

You will never get agreement on that.  Imagine someone saying "you know, you're right -- I always thought I'm a conservative, but you've convinced me I'm not.  Thanks!"  I don't see that happening, and if it does, I don't see it as a good thing anyway.  The left seems to do perfectly well in advancing their agenda despite not agreeing on what it means to be a "liberal" or "progressive".

I'm not even sure the label even matters much at all.  It's the underlying positions, regardless of what label we attach to them, that actually matter.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

And if Trump had not barged onto the political scene and run as a Republican (his and the Clintons' scathingly brilliant scheme to save the presidency for DemocRats

I would suggest that for anyone who truly believes that the Trump candidacy was nothing more than a scam to elect Hillary, the most logical move is to thwart that scam by voting for Trump.

[skeeter]

So find a conservative candidate who can communicate well with those people.  That's how you win elections in a democratic system.

Its far more complicated than that.

I don't know if even Reagan could win the nomination today - not because conservatives are less flexible than they were in 80. I believe they have acquiesced to the moderate/liberal wing far more than is fair to ask  - but because the GOP has become a finely tuned machine specifically geared above all else to prevent an actual small government conservative from winning anytime in the future.

Together with the media bias representing an impossible obstacle to overcome.

Personally I do not believe the GOP, at least, will ever represent my political interests again. I'm more convinced than ever it'll have to be a third party.

[sinkspur]

I agree, which is why he's probably going to lose the election.  But it was enough to win the primary because the people against whom he was running were all flawed in their own ways as well.

That's not why they lost.  The 35% of Republicans who elected Trump fit a demographic that responded only to emotional arguments, who feel put upon.  Lots of resentment, and Trump is a man full of resentment.   

Trump is one BIG flaw.  And I just think there are people who will tolerate his craziness, ignorance, and lies because "he speaks for me." 

[sneakypete]

I have never heard of Kurt Schlichter  before,but he is freaking BRILLIANT. THIS is the guy that SHOULD be running the RNC.

[r9etb]

And if Trump had not barged onto the political scene and run as a Republican (his and the Clintons' scathingly brilliant scheme to save the presidency for DemocRats).....we would have ground the rats into a fine paste....as they so richly deserved to be ground....considering the dire and dismal state of our nation and our economy under their ""leadership"".

I think you give the GOP far too much credit.  Consider: HOW could a guy like Trump barge into the party and run away with the nomination? 

Answer: because the GOP has no core principles that it's willing or able to defend; nor any leaders capable of carrying the message in any case. 

As for Trump, he's just an opportunistic feeder, and a very smart one at that.  He has always been about finding and taking the main chance for himself.  For his final act he wanted the biggest stage he could find; and he saw a party structure sitting there empty, just waiting for him to exploit.

A serious party would have learned from defeat, and been working since at least 2008, and certainly since 2012, defining a philosophy and coherent platform; and been out beating the bushes to recruit serious candidates who could embody and promote them.

[sneakypete]

  You cannot win the nomination or a general election with only core conservatives.  So either he needs to improve as a candidate, or we need a different candidate next time.

I disagree. That is a popular lie started by the Country Club Republicans to convince people they were needed.

EVERY time an actual conservative runs for office and receives party backing,they win. Always.

At least once,namely Reagan,a conservative won WITHOUT party backing,and the evil Country Club Republicans saddled him with that evil old bastard Poppy Bush to make sure they kept their noses in the pie,and it has been downhill for conservatives ever since,with ALL of our presidents since then,including Poppy,were playing for the other team.

[unknown]

This article is off-base. It starts with an assumed and unwritten presumption that the GOP is conservative and then goes from there. The GOP is generally NOT conservative: McCain, Jebbie, Kasich, Romney, Christie, Boehner, McConnel, etc. etc..... There are very few real conservatives in the GOP, the most of which is CRUZ!!

So, the article is GIGO!! If P -> Q. if given ~P then we can conclude what? Well this article concludes garbage out. Its conclusions are meaningless.