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Offline sinkspur

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Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« on: July 25, 2016, 02:36:40 am »
http://sandefur.typepad.com/freespace/2016/07/trump-the-demagogue.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2FTRIV+%28Freespace%29

July 24, 2016

Trump the demagogue

Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both disgraceful candidates, but Trump represents something especially sinister. It’s not just that he’s neither a Republican nor a conservative. It’s not just that his political views—to the extent that he has any—are the opposite of those articulated by the Republican Party since at least 1980. It’s not the embarrassing way he seems bound to prove true every slander liberals have leveled at the GOP for a generation—embracing nativism, racism, populist prejudices and resentments. It’s not that he’s basically illiterate, cannot speak the English language, and scorns the very notion of learning. It’s not even that his whole campaign is motivated by envy, hatred, and fear. (The U.S. already has a party that rejects liberty, that sees America as a land of exploitation rather than opportunity, that opposes private property rights and free trade, and thinks government should provide us with all the things we wish and the meaning our lives lack. That party is the Democratic Party. Why the GOP would choose to become that party is beyond me.)

But no, it’s not even all those things, though they’re bad enough. Donald Trump represents something uniquely awful. I can’t put it better than the Washington Post’s recent editorial, which could very well have been written by Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater—or Orin Kerr’s outstanding post on the danger of letting Trump run our military and security forces—or Jonah Goldberg’s fine article on Trump’s terrifying politics of magical thinking. Donald Trump is, simply, a fascist. And his campaign represents an overt assault on the mores of our constitutional system. Awful as Hillary Clinton is, she simply isn’t a threat on the same scale.

There's a difference between those who break the law—or who, like the Clintons, do so but come up with clever arguments for why their behavior is legal—and those who openly defy the authority or normative force of law itself, and appeal solely to a politics of power and personal command. The latter is the path of barbarism, as so much horrible history shows. It’s the path of personal rule, as opposed to the rule of law. They say hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue. Trump’s overt contempt for the supreme law of the land represents a refusal even to pay that tribute, and therefore a decisive break with the normative bond of our Constitution. He is, with a few exceptions, just what Lincoln warned of in his Lyceum Speech.

In that address, Lincoln foretold the way that lawbreaking—in this case, the Obama Administration’s—encourages “the lawless in spirit…to become lawless in practice,” which, in turn, causes “good men, men who love tranquility, who desire to abide by the laws, and enjoy their benefits, who would gladly spill their blood in the defense of their country” to “become tired of, and disgusted with, a Government that offers them no protection; and are not much averse to a change in which they imagine they have nothing to lose.” When this happens, and the people have lost their attachment to the Constitution, “men of sufficient talent and ambition will not be wanting to seize the opportunity, strike the blow, and overturn that [Constitution].” Those men then put forward a dictator who, “distain[ing] a beaten path” will “thirst[] and burn[] for distinction; and, if possible, it will have it.” (Lincoln thought it would be a man of “genius.” Apparently that was the part he got wrong.)

This warning wasn’t new with Lincoln. The Founders knew that democracy’s greatest weakness is its susceptibility to demagogues, or what they called Caesarism. Caesar led his rebellion against Rome in the name of the populares—the common man—but in fact for his own personal power. He overthrew the republic and created his empire in the name of making Rome great again, but through a political creed that equated that greatness with the vindication of his own name. Caesar personalized politics—made everything about him personally. “Caesar’s claim was not a programme,” writes historian Christian Meier, “but a plea for his personal right, for the honour he was owed on the basis of his achievements.” The same is true of Trump.

Sift, if you can, through his bitter and endless harangue at Cleveland, and you find only the mindless and baseless assertion that Trump alone—not we, the people, but the Leader Himself—can fix all our problems, not through some considered plan, but simply through the sheer force of his indomitable will. The principle of democracy is not supposed to be will—it’s supposed to be persuasion. For Trump, however, politics is not a matter of consensus, contract, negotiation, principle, or common cause. It is a matter of command, pride, and the charismatic domination of the Leader of the People.

This is Caesarism—or, more precisely, its cheap 20th century imitation, fascism, as created by Benito Mussolini. Trump cannot speak the language, is not wealthy, and has no record as a military hero, which is why he is not actually Caesar. (To be fair, he did avoid getting a sexually transmitted disease, which he likens to Vietnam War service, and he was not captured like McCain was.) And Trump is far too stupid—boastfully ignorant—to have an ideology, which is why he’s not Hitler or Stalin. But then, these things were also true of Mussolini, who like his pyrite 21st century facsimile was a poorly-educated boor and business failure who used media popularity and boastful demeanor to bully and con his way into power. Trump, lacking even a basic knowledge of economics or constitutionalism, simply falls back on his consummate self-absorption, and thus on the politics of Personal Rule, as did Il Duce before him.

America’s seen fascist leaders in the past—most notably Huey Long, Charles Lindbergh, and Henry Ford. But they never got this far, and few had Trump’s sheer pride in his own ignorance. He represents a politics of “Because I Say So” that has simply never before been a major player on the presidential stage, not even in the days of Andrew Jackson (like Trump, a mentally unstable tyrant) or Franklin Roosevelt (like Trump, lacking in principle, commitment, or understanding of basic principles of politics or economics). Trump is not the head of a movement—he is the movement. He has no ideological commitments—he is the commitment. He has no program or party—he is the party. This is why he does not fit within the GOP as it existed, but demands that it conform to him. We’ve seen all of this before. It is the Leader Principle of fascism.

Trump does not deny these things. As they say, this wolf comes not in sheep’s clothing, but as a wolf. This is a man, after all, who thinks the communist tyrants of the USSR and the PRC treated dissidents too gently. And his supporters, too, agree with virtually everything I’ve said. They just say Clinton’s worse. But this is not true. She is, as P.J. O'Rourke has said, awful within normal parameters. Trump represents a rejection of those parameters—of the very idea of parameters. His outsider status means that he operates outside the vocabulary of American constitutional politics. True, we’ve had terrible presidents doing unconstitutional things before. We’ve repaired some of the damage they did, but much of that damage remains unfixed. In any event, even the worst presidents in the past at least genuflected at the altar of our constitutional structure. Trump promises to smash that altar.

His outsider status, Trump claims, is his main virtue. In fact, it’s extremely dangerous. An anti-establishment candidate is a good thing only if he or she knows what he or she is doing. Otherwise, the chances of going wrong are just too great. That’s why revolutions devour their young—and that’s why we built an establishment in the first place. It should not be changed without reason to believe a better alternative is possible. This Trump does not offer. His candidacy is an open assault on the mores of our political culture, such as respecting the rights and dignity of opponents, listening to what fellow citizens have to say, honoring our legal duties and treaty obligations; and it is all done in the name of hatred, envy, and fear, with nothing but the strength of his individual will to replace our hard-won institutions. No, it’s not that he is terribly dangerous himself. He’s probably too unintelligent to do much harm personally. But he will surround himself with a volatile collection of stooges and Pashas, of Rasputins and Grand Viziers, of roaches and rats hiding under his throne, who will wreak true havoc in his name—all with the future of our nation and the world at stake.

And aprés Trump, le deluge.

Even this, many Trump supporters will admit. They claim, however, that Congress can impeach him if he goes too far. This is absurd. First, Trump has already gone too far, many times, and Republicans continue to support him, and even to break their own party rules to ensure he prevails at any cost. Second, these same Trump supporters also claim, and with some justification, that the Republican Congress failed to do enough to resist Obama. There is no reason at all to imagine Congress will do more to resist a member of their own party, especially if he appears to have a strong constituency willing to commit violence. America is safer with a President and a Congress of different parties—virtually always. And, as Alexander Hamilton said, “If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.”

It is imperative that Americans of all parties soundly defeat Donald Trump and what he represents.

Update: In case this was not clear, I plan to vote for Gary Johnson, and I hope you will, too.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 12:38:17 pm by sinkspur »
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Oceander

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2016, 02:39:28 am »
A Congress with a bare DNC majority, but not enough to override a veto, may be the best that can be done viz. Trump.

geronl

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2016, 03:53:57 am »
Anyone who thinks of holding Trump to account or forcing him to be more conservative will get the Ted Cruz treatment. Or worse.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2016, 03:56:15 am »
If I can still write in my vote then I'm voting Cruz.  Otherwise I'll vote Constitution Party.

If I can't write in Cruz I won't be casting a vote.   One thing is certain, I will never vote for the orange New York liberal.


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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2016, 03:58:22 am »
Scampaign!

Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2016, 04:12:15 am »
Excellent piece... is there a source link for it? I'd like to share it with some folks...
Let it burn.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2016, 04:33:18 am »
Article is pure baloney. There are things presidents can do on their own. But they cannot move an agenda without, at a minimum, the strong support from their own party in congress. There are no ifs, ands, or buts...that is the way it is and the history of the presidency makes that crystal clear.
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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2016, 05:22:04 am »
Link?

geronl

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 05:37:33 am »
Article is pure baloney. There are things presidents can do on their own. But they cannot move an agenda without, at a minimum, the strong support from their own party in congress. There are no ifs, ands, or buts...that is the way it is and the history of the presidency makes that crystal clear.

Obama has abused executive orders without being smacked down and now Trump has said he looks forward to abusing them too.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 07:56:15 am »
Obama has abused executive orders without being smacked down and now Trump has said he looks forward to abusing them too.

And he did so with the full support of his party...a necessity for him to do this successfully. Trump will have the same limitation, and could not govern with Executive orders against the will of his own party. So you make my point, that the president is limited by the support he gets from his own faction.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 08:23:07 am »
And he did so with the full support of his party...a necessity for him to do this successfully. Trump will have the same limitation, and could not govern with Executive orders against the will of his own party. So you make my point, that the president is limited by the support he gets from his own faction.

Trump will get full support for any unlawful unconstitutional EO he signs from Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.  They will clear the road for his dictatorial edicts to go through with barely a whimper.
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Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 12:05:36 pm »
Excellent  writing.  I did the research this morning to see who is on the ballot in my state and to find out if the ballot allows a write-in vote.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 12:07:28 pm by ConstitutionRose »
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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 12:09:53 pm »
If I can still write in my vote then I'm voting Cruz.  Otherwise I'll vote Constitution Party.

Check your state rules. Often, write-in are just discarded.

Better to vote a third party thst will be counted and show disapproval with the GOP/Dem choices than throwing it away.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 12:12:16 pm »
There's a difference between those who break the law—or who, like the Clintons, do so but come up with clever arguments for why their behavior is legal—and those who openly defy the authority or normative force of law itself, and appeal solely to a politics of power and personal command. The latter is the path of barbarism, as so much horrible history shows. It’s the path of personal rule, as opposed to the rule of law. They say hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue. Trump’s overt contempt for the supreme law of the land represents a refusal even to pay that tribute, and therefore a decisive break with the normative bond of our Constitution. He is, with a few exceptions, just what Lincoln warned of in his Lyceum Speech.

This is why the "not Hillary" argument holds no water.  If we are to vote for the lesser evil, then Hillary might better get our vote than the active evil. 

I choose neither evil.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 12:32:06 pm »
Trump will punish dissenters as he punishes Cruz. 

Wow.  So you mean...he'll actually say mean things about them?  How absolutely dreadful!  That's just one step away from running a naughty commercial about them!

Can't have that kind of, uh, "fascism" in this country, can we?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 12:33:03 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 12:39:11 pm »
Excellent piece... is there a source link for it? I'd like to share it with some folks...

@Ghost Bear

Sorry.  I added the link at the top of the article.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 12:40:35 pm »
Wow.  So you mean...he'll actually say mean things about them?  How absolutely dreadful!  That's just one step away from running a naughty commercial about them!

Can't have that kind of, uh, "fascism" in this country, can we?

Trump's vulgarian personality is why I won't vote for him.  So mock if you must.  And you figure out how to win with this slug.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2016, 12:46:41 pm »
Trump will get full support for any unlawful unconstitutional EO he signs from Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan.  They will clear the road for his dictatorial edicts to go through with barely a whimper.

Based on what?

Presidents who have been far more popular than Trump would be have had unpopular initiatives shut down by members of their own party.  How will a guy like Trump, who will have less institutional support from his own party than any President in the last 100 years, magically get full cooperation from Congress?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 12:47:15 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2016, 01:17:01 pm »
Based on what?

Based on what we've seen the last 8 years.  Based on Trumps own words about things he's going to do that any rational thinking person knows won't get through Congress no matter who is controlling it.

Quote
Presidents who have been far more popular than Trump would be have had unpopular initiatives shut down by members of their own party.  How will a guy like Trump, who will have less institutional support from his own party than any President in the last 100 years, magically get full cooperation from Congress?

You haven't been paying attention  have you?  Trump has the FULL support of the GOPe.  That's all he needs.  McCarthy...Scaliese...Ryan...McConnell and Cornyn.  The Freedom Caucus and the Conservatives in the Senate will try to stop him...but like McConnell and to a lesser extent Ryan have done...they will "fill the tree" and use every parliamentary trick they know to see to it that whether it's a Trump EO or a shitty piece of legislation there will be no opposition to it.

And as they've demonstrated with 8 years of Obama...McConnell will work with the democrats to get around the will of the people and the majority of his own party if necessary.

And he'll use the money Trump donated to McConnell's own PAC to ensure votes go the right way too.

If you think that Trump and his Liberal trade and foreign policy agenda won't get through...you're fooling yourself.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 01:17:36 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 02:05:06 pm »
Trump's vulgarian personality is why I won't vote for him.  So mock if you must.  And you figure out how to win with this slug.

Can we at least attempt to stay on topic?  This thread --which you started -- isn't about not voting for him because he's a vulgarian.  I think there are valid reasons not to vote against the guy, including that one.

But this particular thread is about the claim that "Congress will not constrain Trump", so that is the specific argument I was addressing.  And someone argued that nobody will stand up to him, because "he'll do the same thing to them that he did to Cruz", and I pointed out that what Trump did to Cruz was nothing but rather self-defeating name-calling.  Heck, Cruz' supporters loved what Cruz did, and loved Trump's response even more.  And if someone considers that rather lame name-calling to be equivalent to fascism, and capable of destroying opposition, then they really need to study the meaning of "fascism" more closely.  Look, if Trump was sending goons to beat up Cruz supporters, or to physically remove him from the Senate, the "see what he did to Cruz" argument would have some validity.  But it doesn't.

So the "threat" of him doing to other opposition what he did to Cruz is about as toothless as it gets.  I do think Cruz hurt himself with that his speech because it was just doing what he's done time and again -- preaching to the already converted.  Everyone else didn't like it, and we already know that the "already Cruz-converted" aren't enough to win the nomination.  But that's all on Cruz.  Whatever damage Cruz suffered in the last week was due to him making that speech, not Trump's juvenile response to it.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 02:16:38 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 02:14:30 pm »
Based on what we've seen the last 8 years.

That's a non-answer.  Congress has not passed everything Obama wanted, and they certainly won't do it for Trump.  People who just rotely spout "Executive Order" when asked how Trump is going to accomplish his agenda don't understand how/why EO's actually work the way they do.  And they apparently also don't understand that the Supreme Court -- which certainly will bear less love for Trump than any other President in modern history -- has and will continue to chop down EO's.  Most of the federal judiciary is going to be hostile to the guy, for that matter.

Quote
Based on Trumps own words about things he's going to do that any rational thinking person knows won't get through Congress no matter who is controlling it.

Isn't part of your argument (the correct part, I might add) that Trump is a naïve bumbler who doesn't really understand how our government actually works?  His claims that he's going to do things for which he doesn't have the power absent congressional assent simply means he's going to have a pretty rude wake-p call when he finds out he can't follow through on his promises.

Quote
You haven't been paying attention  have you?  Trump has the FULL support of the GOPe.  That's all he needs.  McCarthy...Scaliese...Ryan...McConnell and Cornyn.  The Freedom Caucus and the Conservatives in the Senate will try to stop him...but like McConnell and to a lesser extent Ryan have done...they will "fill the tree" and use every parliamentary trick they know to see to it that whether it's a Trump EO or a shitty piece of legislation there will be no opposition to it.

I have been paying attention.  And what I've seen is a whole bunch of members of Congress who can't stand Trump, but have very reluctantly decided to support him because the alternative is Hillary.  But so what?  Once he is elected, Hillary is out of the picture, and the reason to support him vanishes.  At that point, they'll only support his policies with which they actually agree because he'll have zero leverage over them.

Quote
If you think that Trump and his Liberal trade and foreign policy agenda won't get through...you're fooling yourself.

Some of that will because that's part of the Constitutional power of the President.  I suspect what we're going to see is greater isolationism, but that's not fascism.  Some trade deals will get blown up, some of our alliances will have to make some major decisions (which may not be entirely bad), etc..  Some of that will not be good.  But in those areas, I think Hillary is probably worse anyway.

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 02:30:20 pm »
That's a non-answer.  Congress has not passed everything Obama wanted, and they certainly won't do it for Trump.  People who just rotely spout "Executive Order" when asked how Trump is going to accomplish his agenda don't understand how/why EO's actually work the way they do.  And they apparently also don't understand that the Supreme Court -- which certainly will bear less love for Trump than any other President in modern history -- has and will continue to chop down EO's.  Most of the federal judiciary is going to be hostile to the guy, for that matter.

He got healthcare...he got student loans and the housing loan industry nationalized...he's gotten his open borders...no restraints on spending...this whole global warming crap with new regulations treated like laws via the EPA and the Interior Department...his justice department is federalizing local police departments.

Name one thing he didn't get?  Show me one time where the Republican controlled congress rose up to stop his lawlessness?  They don't even have the balls to cut off funding for his unconstitutional maneuvers much less draw up charges for the impeachable offenses he committed.

So please...show mere where he didn't get what he wanted.

What has Trump said or done so far that gives you even the slightest indication he won't use as many EO's if not more than Obama has?

Federal judiciary is packed with Liberals...Trump is a fellow traveller who thinks big government is the answer like they do.

The judiciary at any level will no more put the brakes to Trump and his brand of Liberalism than they did to Obama.

Stop trying to make what you wish is going to happen...come off as fact.



Quote
Isn't part of your argument (the correct part, I might add) that Trump is a naïve bumbler who doesn't really understand how our government actually works?  His claims that he's going to do things for which he doesn't have the power absent congressional assent simply means he's going to have a pretty rude wake-p call when he finds out he can't follow through on his promises.

And that's what makes him more dangerous than Hillary.  He doesn't know how government works...therefore he will be more of a loose cannon like we've seen so far in the primaries demanding things get done his way or he'll destroy you.  He going to be just as much of a "pen and a phone" kind of Dictator as Obama ever was.

Trump doesn't take no for an answer and we can already see how he reacts to rejection...it will be ugly and it will be brutal if he's elected.

And he'll have his buddies in the GOPe leadership helping him all along the way.

Quote
I have been paying attention.  And what I've seen is a whole bunch of members of Congress who can't stand Trump, but have very reluctantly decided to support him because the alternative is Hillary.  But so what?  Once he is elected, Hillary is out of the picture, and the reason to support him vanishes.  At that point, they'll only support his policies with which they actually agree because he'll have zero leverage over them.

Which members besides Cruz and Lee and a couple in the House?  All I've seen is a conga line of sell outs lining up to kiss his ring.

Again you are trying to spin fantasy into reality and you're setting yourself up for a really big disappointment in November if he finds a way to win.

Quote
Some of that will because that's part of the Constitutional power of the President.  I suspect what we're going to see is greater isolationism, but that's not fascism.  Some trade deals will get blown up, some of our alliances will have to make some major decisions (which may not be entirely bad), etc..  Some of that will not be good.  But in those areas, I think Hillary is probably worse anyway.

We are in a Post Constitutional period in this country.  Limited separation of powers has dissolved and it's all being dictated from the Executive.

Isolationism is a Liberal foreign policy position.  It never works.  Neither does threatening our allies or crafting a trade policy based on failed measures that didn't work 8oyears ago when they were tried.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Why Congress will not constrain Trump
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 05:35:31 pm »
He got healthcare...he got student loans and the housing loan industry nationalized...he's gotten his open borders...no restraints on spending...this whole global warming crap with new regulations treated like laws via the EPA and the Interior Department...his justice department is federalizing local police departments.

You are equating him getting anything he wanted with him getting everything he wanted. 

Quote
Name one thing he didn't get?
 

He didn't get a public option, he didn't get free community college, he didn't get the immigration bill he wanted or the global warming bill he wanted, and the courts shot down both of his attempts to get around that with executive orders.  He didn't get Gitmo, he didn't get his federal gay equal-rights bill, he didn't get the federal gun or ammo legislation that he wanted, he didn't get the second stimulus he wanted, he didn't get the changes to the National Labor Relations Act (including elimination of secret ballots) that he wanted, he didn't get the increase to government-financed child-care that he wanted, he didn't get the tax hikes he wanted....

And that's just off the top of my head.

The idea that Congress rubber-stamped everything he wanted is a big, fat lie.  Or irresponsible hyperbole at best.  They didn't do everything possible to stop things that already had been passed during his first term, but not stopping things that already had been passed is not the same as giving him everything he wanted. That is fact, not opinion or fantasy.