Author Topic: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21  (Read 42039 times)

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Offline L9teen

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #975 on: July 22, 2016, 07:44:18 pm »
Agree with the unforced errors.  See above, including McEnroe . 

But McCain was not good conservative enough, Romney/Ryan not good conservative enough and now Trump/Pence is not good conservative at all.  Multi-decade pattern forming here.

Exactly, so why keep doing the insane thing, and repeating the same choices over and over, expecting different results?  It's only getting worse...not any better, at all....and until we put forward ACTUAL CONSERVATIVES, we (i.e. America) will never win.

Offline LonestarDream

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #976 on: July 22, 2016, 07:49:13 pm »
Exactly, so why keep doing the insane thing, and repeating the same choices over and over, expecting different results?  It's only getting worse...not any better, at all....and until we put forward ACTUAL CONSERVATIVES, we (i.e. America) will never win.

Past that point this cycle.  Hopefully, folks wont stay home this cycle as Cruz has said...
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

geronl

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #977 on: July 22, 2016, 08:02:51 pm »

We could be setting ourselves for 24 years of this, because our guy is never 'good enough'

Trump is far from even being an acceptable human being. He is nowhere near 'good enough' to be a candidate I'd ever support.

geronl

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #978 on: July 22, 2016, 08:03:26 pm »
Past that point this cycle.  Hopefully, folks wont stay home this cycle as Cruz has said...

They need to go and vote against Trump & Hillary.

Offline don-o

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #979 on: July 22, 2016, 08:04:40 pm »
Agree with the unforced errors.  See above, including McEnroe . 

But McCain was not good enough, Romney/Ryan not good enough and now Trump/Pence is not good  enough.  Multi-decade pattern forming here..

If they could get a lid on the unforced errors, perhaps some of us could discern a reason, see our way.

Chaotic wrecker vs Criminal.

I gotta wait for my mind to stop boggling.

Offline mlizzy

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 09:03:47 pm by Mod2 »
America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe v. Wade has deformed a great nation. The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. Human rights are not a privilege conferred by government. They are every human being's entitlement by virtue of his humanity. The right to life does not depend, and must not be declared to be contingent, on the pleasure of anyone else, not even a parent or a sovereign. -Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta

geronl

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #981 on: July 22, 2016, 08:12:59 pm »


"Oh my God, what have we done?" - Barron

Quote from: mlizzy


"Please don't feel me up like you did Ivanka, so embarrassing."
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 09:04:51 pm by Mod2 »

HonestJohn

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #982 on: July 22, 2016, 08:20:17 pm »
Michael Isikoff ‏@Isikoff  23m23 minutes ago
Trump right now is going back to Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald. "Has anybody ever denied that was his father" with Oswald?

Now we know his (and his supporters) main focus of attack for the next three months.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 08:20:42 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline bolobaby

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #983 on: July 22, 2016, 08:28:20 pm »
Guy Benson@guypbenson   12m12 minutes ago 
Guy Benson Retweeted Dylan Byers
Wow, Trump's audience was smaller than Romney's...and McCain's acceptance speech had nearly 10 million! more viewers

        Dylan Byers Verified account @DylanByers
Dylan Byers Retweeted Alex Weprin


DNC '12 (final night): 35.7m
RNC '12 (final night): 30.3m
DNC '08 (final night): 38.4m
RNC '08 (final night): 38.9m  Dylan Byers added,

Alex Weprin  @alexweprin

An average of 29.9 million people watched Donald trump accept GOP nomination during 10 PM hour last night on broadcast, CNN, FNC, MSNBC   

No no no.  You have to play with the numbers like Trumpettes do.

You see, when you normalize for the number of candidates that were involved when the primaries actually got underway - 12 - versus the number of candidates in 2012 - 7 - and 2008 - 8 - you will see that Trump actually drew in a record number of viewers!

Normalized for the wide open field, Trump actually drew the equivalent of ~51MM viewers in 2012 and 45MM viewers in 2008! That's 6MM more than McCain!

TRUMP HAS UNPRECEDENTED SUPPORT! IT'S THE YUGEST VICTORY EVAH!
How to lose credibility while posting:
1. Trump is never wrong.
2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

HonestJohn

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #984 on: July 22, 2016, 08:29:19 pm »
If you're not concerned about the fact that the man you support for the office of POTUS gives speeches loaded with Fascist ideas and policies, that just means that you're a Fascist, not that those pointing out that Trump is a Fascist are wrong.

Yep.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #985 on: July 22, 2016, 08:40:27 pm »
I have also compared him to Mussolini the dictator.  It fits.  Trump said, "I am the only one who can fix this."  His whole speech was, "I will" as though he will dictate and it will happen.  How many times did he say, "One day one when I am president, I will ..." and he describes actions only congress can take.  He absolutely thinks he will dictate (as he does with his company) and "x" will happen.  He is dangerous and the sheep don't see it.
The sheep crave it.

They see it, they think they will benefit by it and it will never come around to bite them.

They dream of having big teeth and hunting in packs, of turning the tables on any who have wronged them, even by proxy, so they are actually looking forward to granting power to someone who says he will empower them.

Even as they feed their lambs to the pack, they dream of being wolves.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

debrawiest

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #986 on: July 22, 2016, 08:41:48 pm »
I saw a man wishing a hole would open and swallow him.

I did not. I saw a man with a smirk that I ever so desired to slap off his face.  If he had truly been uncomfortable, he should have assumed the Chris Christie zombie look. Instead, he was having a good old time.

HonestJohn

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #987 on: July 22, 2016, 08:42:48 pm »
Exactly my point.  Hillary only has to stay to smile at the camera and not get too shrill.

8 Years Obama
8 Years Hillary
8 Years Castro/Chelsea

We could be setting ourselves for 24 years of this, because our guy is never 'good enough'

Maybe our primary base ought to be voting for the candidate that has the greatest intraparty crossover appeal?  In essence, vote for the guy who's everybody's number #2 choice.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #988 on: July 22, 2016, 08:42:51 pm »
Great post! Trump did not think that could / would be checked out?

 **nononono*
I think that's just in the same arena as all the other nonsense Trump has to say; the Rafael/LHO "link", etc.  No one really cares if it's true or not.  I should say, not enough people really care if it's true or not.  It's Trump's m.o.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #989 on: July 22, 2016, 08:47:27 pm »
So much for Trump's nonsense on crime:


« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 08:47:55 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

geronl

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #990 on: July 22, 2016, 08:50:05 pm »
I would like to point out, AGAIN, that not voting for Trump was the easiest decision I ever made.

Every morning I contemplate not getting up for hours, then I contemplate and flip-flop on breakfast, for 0.000001 seconds I wonder about putting my hand inside the toaster... which is longer than it took me to know for a certainty that I won't vote for Trump.

This came to mind because a few minutes ago I was day dreaming and spent more time (a femtosecond- look it up) on betraying the federation to the empire than I have ever spent deciding whether to vote for Trump.

Trump is as remote from my values and principles as Hillary or as Genghis Khan or as Mengistu Haile Mariam.

François Duvalier would deserve as much thought as Donald Trump.

Deciding whether to vote for Donald Trump took far less than an attosecond (look it up).

I would probably spend much more time evaluating Fransisco Franco or Ernesto Pinochet for President than I ever would Donald Trump, they deserve at least a Nanosecond of thought.

Even now if I tried to spend a whole zeptosecond thinking about Trump and saying NO WAY, I'd have a yoctosecond leftover.

Trump is so far from acceptable that he makes Lyndon LaRouche look Presidential.

Trump makes Ross Perot seem sane.

Trump makes Larry Flynt look saintly.

Trump makes Karl Marx look conservative.

Trump makes Mumia look electable.

Trump is just beyond the pale. There was never any chance that he would be conservative enough, or act conservative, to be worth thinking about voting for. Instead he has actively fought against conservatism on the scampaign trail.

Yes, not voting for Donald Trump was the easiest decision I ever made.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #991 on: July 22, 2016, 08:52:22 pm »
Decided to take a peek through my facebook feed this morning which is very diverse. Here is a summary of what I saw.

Conservatives were very, very split between hating the authortarian attitude to acceptance because he isn't Hillary.

He did the absolute worst among millennials of all political stripes. Politically active on both sides didn't trust him for different reasons.

He seemed to lock in supporters and have some who were on the fence accept to hold their nose because he isn't Hillary. However, he is totally losing the younger vote, even some who liked him before.

Conclusion- I predict no movement in the polls other than normal post convention bounce of around 5 points.
The conservatives are no surprise. We have seen that.

Those I know who would be classified as millennials lean more Libertarian, so the authoritarian angle just does not play well with them. Those who are politically aware can be brought around to the Constitutionalist angle, because while many are intrinsically conservative, they aren't seeing that from the GOP, definitely not from the Dems, and the libertarians tend to be a little too Libertine for their tastes.

I think in the future if there is to be a viable third party there could be a lot of potential among the millennials for members, who are dissatisfied with the Uniparty, who are sick at the prospect of a nation in debt (theirs to pay), and the loss of Liberty they hear about from their parents and grandparents.
The idea of returning to the Constitution's limitations on Federal Government and Largesse might play very well.  As it is now, they feel they have little say, and building a Party might give them a ground floor opportunity to create one.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #992 on: July 22, 2016, 08:55:02 pm »
"Fealty" is a word that needs to make a comeback as a reminder of how bad it is.

Fealty is what serfs owed to their lords.
Not just serfs. I had a relative in England, stripped of title and lands for refusing to swear fealty to Henry VIII in all things, secular and sacred. His noncompliance eventually cost him his head.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #993 on: July 22, 2016, 08:55:29 pm »
So much for Trump's nonsense on crime:



Don't confuse folks with facts. Don't point out the increase in gun ownership and the reduction in crime it would take away from the theory that only Trump can save us.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #994 on: July 22, 2016, 09:02:08 pm »
You are seeing the echo chamber as the outsider for the first time.  The groupthink is extremely unsettling.

You wouldn't recognize irony, if it jumped up and bit you on the rump.    :whistle:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #995 on: July 22, 2016, 09:09:54 pm »
Still clinging to false idea that there is still a viable GOP!  **nononono*
Not any more.

The GOPe was identified as the reservoir for 'Beltway Fever'--the disease that infects large numbers of freshmen congresspersons as soon as they get settled into their office space (some sooner). Symptoms include voting liberal on issues and bills, forgetting campaign promises to limit spending and reign in government--no matter how earnestly those promises were delivered.

Within a few weeks, those Congresspersons, with rare exception, are voting like Democrats to advance the agenda of the Democrats, constituents forgotten (until the next election, when they open the time capsule and dust off the list of promises they will make to constituents just like last time, make a lame excuse or too, and promise it will be different if you just send them back.

Essentially, and with rare and resoundingly vilified (from within the ranks) exception the GOP has morphed into an adjunct Democrat Party. None of the resistance promised to Democrat activities, be they legislative, executive, or just criminal has amounted to a hill of beans, despite the efforts of a few stalwart members. It is the Uniparty.

If we want to mount resistance to that, we will have to either build a new party from scratch or move into another Party which exists and build that into a significant political force.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ArneFufkin

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #996 on: July 22, 2016, 09:12:39 pm »
I think you are correct.  Did not watch the speech tonight, but plan on voting for Trump.

Cant tell if Trump did well or not.  After reading both threads here, it is like two different speeches were given...

It was a typical Trump speech except it was organized and coherent because of the teleprompters.   He did a good job with problem identification and hit the theme of "I'm with You to make America great" repeatedly.  He was forceful and focused.

He really lit into Hillary which I think was useful in this "Hobson's Choice" type election.  She cannot be President.

I just really disagree with his trade policy views and I don't remember him even mentioning the Constitution.  And, I'm hoping that Ivanka doesn't have too much policy influence on him because her agenda would have played well to the delegates next week in Philadelphia.   I sat throughout her speech shaking my head a bit because all I saw in her "women's issues" was more Fed interference in private businesses.

It was a very good night for the Trump fans and I think it will have struck a resonant chord with apolitical, middle class folks who have really seen their economic and physical security compromised under the 8 feckless and treacherous years of Obama.   He certainly made the case for #NeverHillary.     But he did very little to assuage Constitutional Conservatives that he has any program that doesn't require the maintenance of our burdensome, over-reaching Federal Government.   He did NOTHING to assuage Social Conservatives - his will be a socially liberal Administration. 

You can tell from the discussion in this thread he did nothing to change the commitment of Cruz/Constitutional conservatives to their #NeverTrump vows.

Time will tell I guess how this night plays out in the larger picture.   

« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 09:25:01 pm by ArneFufkin »

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #997 on: July 22, 2016, 09:13:21 pm »
Not just serfs. I had a relative in England, stripped of title and lands for refusing to swear fealty to Henry VIII in all things, secular and sacred. His noncompliance eventually cost him his head.

Its ultimately an oath of absolute subservience. It often gave the king or nobility the right to take what they wished from crops and livestock to sons for labor or even wives and daughters.


Wingnut

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #998 on: July 22, 2016, 09:14:51 pm »
It was a typical Trump speech except it was organized and coherent because of the teleprompters.  <snip >

You can tell from the discussion in this thread he did nothing to change the commitment of Cruz/Constitutional conservatives to change their #NeverTrump vows.

Never means never.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: OPEN LIVE CONVENTION THREAD - THURSDAY, JULY 21
« Reply #999 on: July 22, 2016, 09:16:20 pm »
I had not seen this casino-like backdrop to Trump' stage last night.  Reminds me of the old "King Kong" movie:


Casino glitz. I'd bet the smart money is moving out of the game.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis