Trump gets it right on Saddam

[geronl]

Assyrians Under Baathism

As Baathist power increased, Assyrian influence and rights within Iraq decreased. Fear and intimidation became the rule as the regime attempted to divide families and communities; religious schisms among the Assyrians were manipulated in order to weaken their power. For example, in 1970, the regime succeeded in luring back to Iraq the venerable Mar Shimun, once the Assyrian nationalist firebrand who had sought millet status for the Assyrians some thirty-seven years before. Back in Iraq, he gave fulsome praise to the "leadership of the revolution."[9] Under the divide-and-rule policies of the Baath, some individual Assyrians enjoyed privileges. But Assyrian national and cultural life in Iraq virtually ended. Those Assyrians who held official positions under the Baath did so at the price of discarding their unique identity and native language. In short they had to cease being Assyrians.

By the time of the 1977 census, the regime referred to Assyrians as being either Arabs or Kurds. Assyrians were thus forced to deny their identity as Assyrians and became, in the parlance of the regime, "Arab Christians." Speaking Assyrian in public became a crime, and Assyrian nationalism was harshly punished. One extreme example of this "Arabization" program was Iraqi deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz, an Assyrian-Chaldean Christian who changed his surname from Youkhana upon joining the Baath. Yet, despite Aziz's prominence in Iraqi politics and Saddam Hussein's use of Christian chefs to cook his meals, it was a shibboleth that Saddam was especially tolerant toward Christians. Although regime propaganda claimed that Iraqis enjoyed religious freedom, this applied only to ritual. The Baath prohibited all religious activities that linked Iraqi Christians to co-religionists abroad. For example, in 1978, the regime imprisoned more than 500 Assyrian members of the Bible Study Committee.

In the Iran-Iraq war, many Assyrians were drafted and sent to fight on the front lines. This resulted in a disproportionately high casualty rate. Soon thereafter, numerous Assyrians left for Kuwait, Lebanon, and other countries. Some families remained relatively secure for a while longer and hoped for the best. By 1990, however, Assyrian national identity in Iraq had all but been erased, to the point where foreign journalists unfamiliar with Iraqi history completely missed this hidden community and reported instead on the presence of Arab Christians (rather than Assyrians or Assyro-Chaldeans) in Baghdad. In the 1990s, the regime manipulated the United Nations Oil-for-Food program in order to further persecute the Assyrians, by stipulating that only "Arab Christians," and not Assyrians, could use ration cards.

Not only wiping out hundreds of Christian (Assyrian) villages, he wiped away their culture and identity.


http://www.meforum.org/558/iraqi-assyrians-barometer-of-pluralism

[geronl]

Those Assyrians fortunate enough to live in the Kurdish autonomous area since 1991 have been subject to occasional discrimination by their Kurdish neighbors. Still, Assyrian cultural and religious life has flourished in this enclave in a way unimaginable under Saddam Hussein.

[mlizzy]

The Fedayeen were Saddam's "Men of Sacrifice". They were his semi tame terrorist/brownshirts who were given free reign to terrorize his own people as long as they didn't interfere with military and police and military and police weren't to interfere with them. While they operated primarily inside Iraq they did occasionally take suicide missions outside the country. They've been arrested as far away as India and Libya. I've read that they make up much of the core of ISIS today.

Saddam may have killed terrorists but only those who were a direct threat to him and his power. Those who weren't a threat to Saddam were a threat against everybody else like waving a gun around threatening everybody.

Thank you! The sins of man can never clean up the world. It is impossible to have the devil do anything good, and he is the one responsible for these sins.

[kidd]

I know, and have talked to quite a few Iraq war veterans, some who spent more than three years in Iraq.

More than once I have heard: "What Iraq needs is Sadam Hussein."

This sounds more like deep disdain for Iraqis than praise for Hussein

"What Cambodia needs is Pol Pot"
"What the Ukraine needs is Joseph Stalin"

[NavyCanDo]

From the time Trump said he saw thousands and thousands of Muslims in NJ cheering on 9/11 way back in November 2015 to now when he is praising Saddam for  killing terrorist the Trump cult just keep on defending every stupid thing he says.  And they will continue to do so right down to his concession speach this November.

[geronl]

I can't blame Trump for the stupid and idiotic wrong meme that Christians were treated well by Hussein. That's just ridiculously stupid. Ethnic cleansing and forced relocation of entire villages and the erasure of your ethnic identity doesn't happen in a friendly manner.

[driftdiver]

This sounds more like deep disdain for Iraqis than praise for Hussein

"What Cambodia needs is Pol Pot"
"What the Ukraine needs is Joseph Stalin"

Not even close.  He was evil and a murderer but not on that scale.

[geronl]

Not even close.  He was evil and a murderer but not on that scale.

Hundreds of villages of Assyrians, Kurds and Shiites would see it a little differently

[mlizzy]

Hundreds of villages of Assyrians, Kurds and Shiites would see it a little differently

Trump shows admiration for all the wrong people! My ears will perk up if he mentions Mother Teresa someday.

[Jazzhead]

No, actually it required the election of Barack Obama...

Quoted for truth.   

It is important to recognize as accurate what one poster said that a lot of the perverse lethality of ISIS is due to a lot of its "brains" being ex-Saddam thugs (e.g., Izzy al-Douri)    The only real precedent for the current depraved ISIS atrocities are the rape rooms and horror chambers of Saddam's sadists,  and of course Saddam himself ordered the use of poison gas on civilian populations 

Saddam indeed taught ISIS well   But the fault of ISIS's rise is the abdication of responsibility by Barack Obama.   He created the vacuum that was ISIS's proximate cause.   

I repeat,  to praise in way Saddam's prowess as a strongman,  and to suggest the need to emulate such ruthlessness in the context of our Constitutional republic,  is disgusting.   It's disgusting for Trump to say it, and it's perhaps more reprehensible for Trump's supporters to defend it.   

Show some damn self-respect, Trumpsters.  Don't come on like minions.   Think for yourself.  Think about what you prized as your principles when you were young.

The rule of law.   

Limited, constitutional government.   

Everyone considered by the content of their character. 

And then think about  how you've spit on everything you used to be by defending a TV-huckster would-be strong man raving about how good Saddam used to take care of those who opposed him.   

[geronl]

Trump shows admiration for all the wrong people! My ears will perk up if he mentions Mother Teresa someday.

I'm sure it would be some epically FAIL statement

[Right_in_Virginia]

Trump shows admiration for all the wrong people! My ears will perk up if he mentions Mother Teresa someday.

Trump never showed "admiration" for Saddam Hussein.  And you know that.

What he did was shine a light on what everyone in foreign relations knows:  Saddam Hussein, bad and brutal dictator, kept balance in the Middle East--by keeping Iran in check along with Islamic terrorists, including ISIS.

If we learn anything from our excursion into Iraq, it must be that we need a better understanding of what our actions will do to the balance of power and what forces that change will unleash - - - not only in the region, but around the globe.  The rise of a nuclear Iran, ISIS marching through Iraq, Syria, Western Europe, Africa and soon the US was triggered by one prerequisite:  the elimination of anyone powerful enough to keep power stable and out of the hands of Islamic terrorist in the region.   That bastard was Saddam Hussein. 

We believed we could remove a bad, brutal man and bring 1776 to the Middle East via Iraq.  We were profoundly mistaken.  The consequences of this mistake are stark throughout the Mid East and now a global threat.
 

[Hoodat]

Salman Pak Terrorist Training Center

[Hoodat]

I repeat,  to praise in way Saddam's prowess as a strongman,  and to suggest the need to emulate such ruthlessness in the context of our Constitutional republic,  is disgusting.   It's disgusting for Trump to say it, and it's perhaps more reprehensible for Trump's supporters to defend it.   

Show some damn self-respect, Trumpsters.  Don't come on like minions.   Think for yourself.  Think about what you prized as your principles when you were young.

The rule of law.   

Limited, constitutional government.   

Everyone considered by the content of their character. 

And then think about  how you've spit on everything you used to be by defending a TV-huckster would-be strong man raving about how good Saddam used to take care of those who opposed him.

Amen!

[mlizzy]

I'm sure it would be some epically FAIL statement

"Your mission @geronl should you choose to accept it," is to come up with a [Trump] epic fail on the following:

[240B]

We believed we could remove a bad, brutal man and bring 1776 to the Middle East via Iraq.  We were profoundly mistaken.  The consequences of this mistake are stark throughout the Mid East and now a global threat.
 

I agree. This is classic 'American' style thinking by people who have never been in the M.E. and do not have a single clue about what they are talking about. They do not, cannot, understand how those people think. The way they think has no relation at all to Western values or culture. If you kill the top guy, the people are not thinking about abstract philosophies of 'freedom'. They will immediately think that now they are unleashed to rape, pillage, and plunder, anything and everything they can get their hands on.

George Bush and his advisors were idiots to think they could 'liberate' Iraq. America can defeat Iraq. America can conquer Iraq. But the idea of 'elections', free speech, cable television, in Iraq is and was an insane notion. There was never any way that Iraq was going to be Americanized.

But the elite could not comprehend the concept. 'How could anyone not want HBO?', said the Princeton Foreign Relations Graduate to George Bush. To which Bush replied, 'I like HBO. Let's do this!'   (fools and idiots with no understanding of what they were doing)

And to make it all worse, then Obama/Hillary did the exact same thing in Libya. As if ISIS did not already have enough territory to control, Obama/Hillary decided to give them Libya as well, as a gift, free and clear. Now, Libya is a war-torn, shelled out, hellhole. So, a once stable country which an American or European could vacation in relative safety, has now become more dangerous to visit than Detroit, or Chicago.

The unforgivable part of Libya is that Obama/Hillary had the advantage of hindsight. They were able to see the disaster these unending wars caused in Afghanistan and in Iraq, and the dumb f**ks did it anyway.

If there was some kind of secret plot hatched by somebody in 1991 to totally blow-up and 'F'-up the M.E. in 20 years, then kudos to whomever it was. They could not have done a better job. How they got two American Presidents to go along with it will probably always be a mystery.

Trump is right.

[mlizzy]

Trump never showed "admiration" for Saddam Hussein.  And you know that.

"The execution of Saddam Hussein took place on Saturday 30 December 2006. Saddam was sentenced to death by hanging, after being found guilty and convicted of crimes against humanity by the Iraqi Special Tribunal for the murder of 148 Iraqi Shi'ites in the town of Dujail in 1982, in retaliation for an assassination attempt against him." -Wiki

Would it not seem wise to you, never to commend [any of] a man's actions whose first two lines on Wiki state the above? In other words, barring a last-second conversion and/or a beg for forgiveness, isn't it likely that Saddam's soul could now be "resting" with Lucifer?

Regarding the global threat, of course, you are right. I'm probably one of a relative few people in my town who spent an hour praying for Trump at our Adoration chapel today. I know full and well where he could be headed, and if ALL of his Christian supporters [and non-supporters like myself too] would pray for the man, maybe he could sleep at night so he'd make better sense in the morning.

[mlizzy]

Mother Teresa has the right idea.  Practical shoes.  LOL.

LOLOL; you're right! ~ Isn't she spectacular??

[HonestJohn]

You can post all the offensive pictures you want. He wasn't a good guy.  But since you have such a stash of mortally offensive photos --- apparently in your apron pockets --- reach in there and pull out one of Christians being taken away in cages to be drowned --- or better yet, @mlizzy, post one of them being beheaded.

Because the rise of the animals who are doing this to Christians required the death of Saddam Hussein.

Educate yourself.

He paid $35,000 to the families of terrorists for every suicide bomber that blew up. 

Saddam didn't kill terrorists; he enabled, aided, supported, and encouraged them.

Why do you support those that paid for this?

[Gov Bean Counter]

"The execution of Saddam Hussein took place on Saturday 30 December 2006. Saddam was sentenced to death by hanging, after being found guilty and convicted of crimes against humanity by the Iraqi Special Tribunal for the murder of 148 Iraqi Shi'ites in the town of Dujail in 1982, in retaliation for an assassination attempt against him." -Wiki

Would it not seem wise to you, never to commend [any of] a man's actions whose first two lines on Wiki state the above? In other words, barring a last-second conversion and/or a beg for forgiveness, isn't it likely that Saddam's soul could now be "resting" with Lucifer?

Regarding the global threat, of course, you are right. I'm probably one of a relative few people in my town who spent an hour praying for Trump at our Adoration chapel today. I know full and well where he could be headed, and if ALL of his Christian supporters [and non-supporters like myself too] would pray for the man, maybe he could sleep at night so he'd make better sense in the morning.

Great post!

[mlizzy]

Great post!

[plewis1250]

He paid $35,000 to the families of terrorists for every suicide bomber that blew up. 

Saddam didn't kill terrorists; he enabled, aided, supported, and encouraged them.

Why do you support those that paid for this?

See, you're forgetting that with the Trump supporter, they ignore financial support. They don't view that as actively participating in "supporting" the person or group which is being financially backed...

Think about it. Trump supported Clinton for decades, financially, but... oh he's as clean as the wind driven snow...

So Saddam supporting terrorists financially makes him clean on that front...

[Mechanicos]

He paid $35,000 to the families of terrorists for every suicide bomber that blew up. 

Saddam didn't kill terrorists; he enabled, aided, supported, and encouraged them.

Why do you support those that paid for this?

Prove what you posted here had anything to do with what Trump actually said?

[geronl]

"Your mission @geronl should you choose to accept it," is to come up with a [Trump] epic fail on the following:

You know that Playboy framed on the wall in his office, he is interviewed in that issue. He said that great people had huge ego's and they mentioned Jesus Christ and Mother Theresa and he said yes, they had huge egos too.

Can you imagine Mother Theresa being anything like Trump, I can't.

[Minarch]

I know, and have talked to quite a few Iraq war veterans, some who spent more than three years in Iraq.

More than once I have heard: "What Iraq needs is Sadam Hussein."

The ignorant cowards on this 'conservative' web site won't get this.

I probably would have thought this too, had my unit never come across the mass graves in eastern Iraq filled with the broken bones of children.

Funny what perspective does for you.

What were you saying about ignorant cowards?