Trump gets it right on Saddam

[Mechanicos]

Trump gets it right on Saddam
By Peter Bergen, CNN National Security Analyst
Updated 5:44 AM ET, Thu July 7, 2016

Occasionally Donald Trump says something that is politically incorrect but which also happens to be true.

On Tuesday at a campaign rally in North Carolina, Trump defended the former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's record on terrorism, saying, "He was a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what? He did well? He killed terrorists. He did that so well. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were terrorists. Over. Today, Iraq is Harvard for terrorism."

Defending the brutal Iraqi dictator who killed hundreds of thousands of his own people isn't exactly fashionable. But if you consider the 13 years of war that have wracked the country -- in which a quarter of a million have died -- and add that Saddam brutally repressed all dissent, including groups such as al Qaeda, and also add to this that ISIS is itself a fruit of the Iraq War, it's a far more defensible position.
(Snip)

Trump is likely not a student of the English political philosopher Hobbes, who wrote his masterwork "Leviathan" in the shadow of the English Civil War. But he seems to have grasped Hobbes' main point: that an absolute "sovereign" (i.e. dictator) was preferable to "the war of all against all" that characterized the civil war in mid-17th century England as well as much of the civil war that continues to wrack early-21st century Iraq.

And Trump's claim that following the fall of Saddam, Iraq has emerged as the "Harvard" of terrorism is correct because Zarqawi in 2004 merged his terrorist group with al Qaeda to create "Al Qaeda in Iraq," which is the parent organization of today's ISIS.
(Snip)

[More]
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/06/opinions/trump-comments-on-saddam-opinion-bergen/index.html

[plewis1250]

Nothing like praising a ruthless dictator for his lack of due process...

Yeah, sounds like someone we should hold in high regard.

Maybe Trump would like to setup some torture/rape rooms for his sons to make use of like Saddam did as well?

[mlizzy]

Saying something good about Saddam is like saying something good about Hitler or Planned Parenthood. It is impossible, and an insult to most people.

[plewis1250]

Saying something good about Saddam is like saying something good about Hitler or Planned Parenthood. It is impossible, and an insult to most sane people.

There, fixed it for ya...

[ABX]

No, Trump couldn't have been more wrong.

Saddam wasn't killing terrorists, he was sponsoring them. From a CFR report 2005---

Has Iraq sponsored terrorism?

Yes. Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship provided headquarters, operating bases, training camps, and other support to terrorist groups fighting the governments of neighboring Turkey and Iran, as well as to hard-line Palestinian groups. During the 1991 Gulf War, Saddam commissioned several failed terrorist attacks on U.S. facilities. Prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the State Department listed Iraq as a state sponsor of terrorism. The question of Iraq’s link to terrorism grew more urgent with Saddam’s suspected determination to develop weapons of mass destruction (WMD), which Bush administration officials feared he might share with terrorists who could launch devastating attacks against the United States.


What type of terrorist groups did Iraq support under Saddam Hussein’s regime?

Primarily groups that could hurt Saddam’s regional foes. Saddam has aided the Iranian dissident group Mujahadeen-e-Khalq and the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (known by its Turkish initials, PKK), a separatist group fighting the Turkish government. Moreover, Iraq has hosted several Palestinian splinter groups that oppose peace with Israel , including the mercenary Abu Nidal Organization, whose leader, Abu Nidal, was found dead in Baghdad in August 2002. Iraq has also supported the Islamist Hamas movement and reportedly channeled money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. A secular dictator, however, Saddam tended to support secular terrorist groups rather than Islamist ones such as al-Qaeda, experts say.


http://www.cfr.org/iraq/terrorism-havens-iraq/p9513

Saddam wasn't killing terrorists, he was training them.

Marines Discover Terror Training Camp Near Baghdad

BAGHDAD, Iraq –  U.S. forces came upon a recently abandoned terrorist training camp on the outskirts of Baghdad where recruits were apparently taught how to make bombs and what to do if they got captured, the Marines said Wednesday.

The extensive camp consisted of about 20 permanent buildings on 25 acres south of the city and was operated by the Iraqi government and the Palestine Liberation Front, said Marine spokesman Cpl. John Hoellwarth.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/2003/04/16/marines-discover-terror-training-camp-near-baghdad.html

The best analogy you probably could use is Saddam was like an organized crime family keeping other criminals out of their territory so they don't compete. You don't praise them for keeping the neighborhood safe from other criminals when they are sponsoring their own.

[geronl]

No matter how horrible the things Trump says are, the cult must believe it.

[mlizzy]

There, fixed it for ya...

Thank you!  ^-^

[Jazzhead]

Trump supporters like this disgust me.   Praising dictators because they dispense with due process.  They claim to want to make America great again - but lust for dispensing with the Constitution that is the foundation of American greatness 

 

[ABX]

Trump supporters like this disgust me.   Praising dictators because they dispense with due process.  They claim to want to make America great again - but lust for dispensing with the Constitution that is the foundation of American greatness

To add to the disgust, the argument being made here is the same argument Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore and their types used against the war.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Saying something good about Saddam is like saying something good about Hitler or Planned Parenthood. It is impossible, and an insult to most people.

@mlizzy

Perhaps you need to spend some time studying the Middle East before making a comment like this.  It shows a stunning ignorance of the tribal warfare that's been raging for centuries and the constant pull of the 1100's among the indigenous peoples.   

Educate yourself and then go for the snark.   You'll have better results.

[mlizzy]

@mlizzy

Perhaps you need to spend some time studying the Middle East before making a comment like this.  It shows a stunning ignorance of the tribal warfare that's been raging for centuries and the constant pull of the 1100's among the indigenous peoples.   

Educate yourself and then go for the snark.   You'll have better results.

I thought Saddam Hussein was responsible for this? No?

[Gov Bean Counter]

I thought Saddam Hussein was responsible for this? No?

I was billeted next to Saddam's women's prison. There was blood on the walls and chains/hooks suspended from the ceiling. Whatta swell guy.

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

I thought Saddam Hussein was responsible for this? No?

You can post all the offensive pictures you want. He wasn't a good guy.  But since you have such a stash of mortally offensive photos --- apparently in your apron pockets --- reach in there and pull out one of Christians being taken away in cages to be drowned --- or better yet, @mlizzy, post one of them being beheaded.

Because the rise of the animals who are doing this to Christians required the death of Saddam Hussein.

Educate yourself. 

[Gov Bean Counter]

You can post all the offensive pictures you want. He wasn't a good guy.  But since you have such a stash of mortally offensive photos --- apparently in your apron pockets --- reach in there and pull out one of Christians being taken away in cages to be drowned --- or better yet, @mlizzy, post one of them being beheaded.

Because the rise of the animals who are doing this to Christians required the death of Saddam Hussein.

Educate yourself.

No, actually it required the election of Barack Obama...

[geronl]

http://www.wnd.com/2004/08/25902/

Saddam's terrorizing
of Christian villages

Joseph says 290 villages were named in the documentation with the word “destroyed” next to each one.

“The document with ‘Confidential For Internal Use Only’ and subtitled ‘The Contribution of the International Non-Governmental Organizations to the Islamization of Assyrian Villages’ goes into great detail on the destruction of the indigenous people of the region,” he writes.

The villages in question had been inhabited by Christians for centuries, while the Assyrian people have lived in the area since before the time of Christ.

According to Joseph, the Kurdistan Regional Government worked together with Saddam in the cleansing operations.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2004/08/25902/#Sw0GlL3up0Fvm8hY.99

[Mechanicos]

@Right_in_Virginia is correct, so is CNN's Mideast Specialist who wrote the Article. Saddam killed the ones who after Saddam's death became ISIS. Thus killing Saddam was a direct cause of the current threat we face from ISIS. 

But for Saddam's death, the Islamic terrorism would still be over there killing each other and not over here killing us.

[Right_in_Virginia]

No, actually it required the election of Barack Obama...

Obama helped destabilize the Middle East with the empowerment of Iran ... but that doesn't change the fact that only Saddam could have contained ISIS ... as he had for decades.

[HAPPY2BME]

I know, and have talked to quite a few Iraq war veterans, some who spent more than three years in Iraq.

More than once I have heard: "What Iraq needs is Sadam Hussein."

The ignorant cowards on this 'conservative' web site won't get this.

[geronl]

The meme that Saddam "protected" Christians is widespread but untrue.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/039bev04-19-2003.htm

http://www.assyrianchristians.com/commentary_saddams_human_rights.htm

[geronl]

Obama helped destabilize the Middle East with the empowerment of Iran ... but that doesn't change the fact that only Saddam could have contained ISIS ... as he had for decades.

general oppression against everyone but Saddam might "constrain" terrorists, but it's also pretty bad for everyone else not named Saddam.

[mlizzy]

You can post all the offensive pictures you want. He wasn't a good guy.  But since you have such a stash of mortally offensive photos --- apparently in your apron pockets --- reach in there and pull out one of Christians being taken away in cages to be drowned --- or better yet, @mlizzy, post one of them being beheaded.

Because the rise of the animals who are doing this to Christians required the death of Saddam Hussein.

Educate yourself.

You are rather nasty! Go to Jesus! He has all the answers...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83KIv9tlC0Y

[attachment deleted by admin]

[TomSea]

Saddam Hussein's Old Guard Helped The Rise of ISIS, some of Saddam's officers were key in ISIS positions:

How Saddam’s Former Soldiers Are Fueling the Rise of ISIS
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-saddams-former-soldiers-are-fueling-the-rise-of-isis/

Saddam’s Baathist henchmen are making ISIS’s advance possible
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2014/06/19/saddams-baathist-henchmen-are-making-isiss-advance-possible/

US almost expanded the war into Syria because Assad allowed terrorists to operate from Syria; Assad also harbored Saddam's brother until forced to give him up.

Saddam's former army is the secret to ISIS success
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-saddams-former-army-is-secret-of-baghdadis-success-2015-6

[Cripplecreek]

I thought Saddam Hussein was responsible for this? No?

The Fedayeen were Saddam's "Men of Sacrifice". They were his semi tame terrorist/brownshirts who were given free reign to terrorize his own people as long as they didn't interfere with military and police and military and police weren't to interfere with them. While they operated primarily inside Iraq they did occasionally take suicide missions outside the country. They've been arrested as far away as India and Libya. I've read that they make up much of the core of ISIS today.

Saddam may have killed terrorists but only those who were a direct threat to him and his power. Those who weren't a threat to Saddam were a threat against everybody else like waving a gun around threatening everybody.

[jmyrlefuller]

It's come to this.

The Trump caucus is openly defending Saddam Hussein, solely because their guy did the same and they can't be seen as being wrong.

Is there nothing beneath them?

[TomSea]

Found in Iraq; Saddam sure acted like he was taking credit for 911.