Author Topic: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention  (Read 5904 times)

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2016, 04:25:15 am »
Permit me to be clear. Either will do serious damage. Either will quite possibly lead to blood in the streets. Both are Liberals, one is a sure criminal, the other just buys influence and hasn't been investigated as stringently in the public view.

I am not voting for either of the Liberals from New York. Period. End. Of. Story.

Let the chips fall where they may. If the SHTF, let's get it done while I can still hump a light ruck and carry a rifle. Otherwise, I'll just be a decrepit spectator, and likely on the 40 & 8 list just for living that long.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2016, 04:41:04 am »
Permit me to be clear. Either will do serious damage. Either will quite possibly lead to blood in the streets. Both are Liberals, one is a sure criminal, the other just buys influence and hasn't been investigated as stringently in the public view.

I am not voting for either of the Liberals from New York. Period. End. Of. Story.

Let the chips fall where they may. If the SHTF, let's get it done while I can still hump a light ruck and carry a rifle. Otherwise, I'll just be a decrepit spectator, and likely on the 40 & 8 list just for living that long.

Well said!
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2016, 04:53:25 am »
He is. I will likely write in or vote 3rd party.

I think the Republican Convention will be violent outside and inside.   I base this on too many people in the country are set on destruction and Trump's "tough guy" language seems to add to their violence, plus terrorists, homegrown and from other countries, are also set on destruction. 

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2016, 05:21:10 am »
I think the Republican Convention will be violent outside and inside.   I base this on too many people in the country are set on destruction and Trump's "tough guy" language seems to add to their violence, plus terrorists, homegrown and from other countries, are also set on destruction.
That is entirely possible. The idea of Leftists rioting outside is nothing new, (Chicago 1968, when they pulled a coup in the Democrat Party), and the GOP is about due. It has morphed to the Left far enough that Hubert Humphrey could be considered a "conservative" by current standards. When today's Republicans run to the Left of yesterday's Democrats, it shows how far off course the whole shooting match has gone.

It may be a different flavor of totalitarians, but they'll likely be there, as you say, inside and out.

Mob rule, if we let them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2016, 05:36:14 am »
Phony #nevertrump "conservatives" fully bought into the leftist meme.


I always find it amusing that the supporters of a Populist quasi Liberal preaching Nationalism and with not one shred of Conservatism in his bones have the audacity to put scare quotes around the word Conservative when referring to Reaganist style COnstitutional Conservatives who actually have principles morals and a belief in Liberty.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2016, 06:31:30 am »
I always find it amusing that the supporters of a Populist quasi Liberal preaching Nationalism and with not one shred of Conservatism in his bones have the audacity to put scare quotes around the word Conservative when referring to Reaganist style COnstitutional Conservatives who actually have principles morals and a belief in Liberty.

 :hands:
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2016, 01:55:19 pm »
I'd say the same applies with Clinton, so the two sides are equal.


Not equal at all.  As I said before,  in the Republican party,  kooks are on the fringe.   In the Democrat party,   they are the mainstream.   




Point #2:

I've already answered the first bit.

As for the rest, consider this... his schtick got him the GOP nomination.  What does that say about the plurality of the GOP primary voter if this 'delusion' of his works?



Most people haven't noticed it for two reasons.   Because it seldom manifests,  and  because they don't think along those lines.   The Republican primary voters won't recognize Trump's soft pandering to the fringe because they have no connection to the fringe.  It simply flies right over their heads.





Furthermore, its understood that a person's psyche, his personality, is set within the first few years of life.  He was raised by Fred Trump, a man who attended Klan rallies and was, in fact, arrested for doing so.  That man raised Trump and so, was one of the two (his mother the other) most important factors in creating the man called Donald Trump.


Okay,  this is a reasonable point,  but wasn't the Klan mainstream back in 1927?     Most people gave it up when they saw where it was going,  and today it is a fringe group with no significant support anywhere in the Nation.   

There were a *LOT*  of influential people in the 1920s who had jumped on the Klan bandwagon for awhile,   but they grew out of it.  Democrat connections to the Klan have been mentioned quite a lot,  but never seem to gain any attention for some reason.   

But yes,  I can see where that would fill someone with misgivings about him.  I actually didn't know about this,   and I don't like it. 





So I'd say he's got a better than average chance of actually meaning what he tweets.

Additionally, he has done this multiple times in this campaign (I think it's up to six or seven times just with the anti-Semitic bits, not even counting the anti-Mexican or anti-Muslim bits).

So that's a very clear pattern that's emerged that he's 'doubled-down' on instead of tried to refute.



And I've already said why I think he does things like this.   It's not because he actually believes any of that,  it's because he thinks his base of supporters do.   





We cannot stop Iran without a full scale war. 


Which should have already happened,   and likely would have had we not ended up with an idiot running the country.   




Without bases in the region for us to stage our troops, we cannot invade Iran.  Furthermore, their nuclear facilities are built into terrain that, even if we strike them, it will not be damaged.  The only leverage we have are sanctions and trade.  Sanctions were tried for decades and did nothing to stop them.


If you are telling me that "it's too hard",   then I will point out that it's not nearly as hard as it will be to recover from the usage of a Nuclear weapon by that cadre of religious nut-jobs.     Under no circumstances should a doomsday cult ever be allowed to get their hands on nuclear weapons.   



Ending them and opening trade has, at the least, netted us Iran's highly enriched uranium stockpile.  While they can still enrich uranium, it does take quite a while to get unenriched uranium enriched enough to be weaponizable.  So we've set them back about 5-10 years, even if everything goes south.


I don't think anyone makes bombs out of Uranium anymore.   They use enriched Uranium to transmute U-238 into plutonium,   and then they make bombs out of plutonium.    And no,  we haven't set them back at all.   They probably have enough fissionable material to make a crude bomb now.   To start WW III,  all they need is one. 








And if it doesn't go south, well... it's like the prisoner teaching the horse to sing... maybe it might happen.  But we've bought time to figure something out.  Something we would not have gotten by staying the course.


Nonsense.  Iran has not stopped or even slowed down.   Only an idiot thinks those kooks can be trusted to keep their word.   And Obama is that idiot. 



Furthermore, they already have ICBMs.  What they lack is a tested nuclear warhead (and beyond that, one that has been miniaturized sufficiently to fit on the head of an ICBM).


I don't think that is much of a problem.   They have enough sufficiently talented and knowledgeable scientists to pull that off now.   Much of bomb design is out there for the people who want to learn of it,   and I don't doubt they have espionage obtained information that shortcuts much of the development process.   

I predict a success on their first try. 








So right now, Trump's the worst of the bunch.   


Non sequitur.   Your above arguments do not constitute proof that such a conclusion is true.   You have not mentioned any of the objectionable things about Hillary,   and until you've covered those,  you can't claim objectivity in your analysis. 


From what I have learned of Hillary over the years,   Trump would have to have done some really really bad stuff to be anywhere near an equal footing of "badness"  with her,  let alone surpass her.   







Most of our other primary candidates understood all this, but unfortunately, our GOP primary voter-base didn't care about anything other than sticking it to 'da man'.


And that's Trump support in a nutshell.   They see someone who doesn't pull punches and who bitchslaps anyone who messes with him,   and they like that.   That he might be dog-whistling to the kooks,   simply goes over their heads. 






And I'm not willing to see the world, or America, burn for it.  (Had we had any other candidate take the nomination, we wouldn't be in this quandary... well, excepting Ben Carson, the 'Pyramids are Granaries' nutcase.)


Letting Hillary get her hands on Federal power is far more likely to produce a burning American than anyone else.   
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2016, 02:16:55 pm »
No, that's not exactly what I'm saying.  We know what Hillary is, so I don't feel the need to explain that portion of the discussion, if you are good with that.  Trump, either actively agrees with the Nazi faction of his supporters, or by his silence he agrees with them. 




What you are putting forth is known as the "fallacy of false choice."   You restrict the choices to two,  and then demand I pick one.   No,  there is a third choice.   Trump has a common delusion about the Republican base that is shared by many elite New Yorkers,   and he is erroneously pandering to what he *thinks* is the base,  but has no intention of taking them seriously once he gets in.   


And why do I say this?   Trump has demonstrated time and again that he will change position or policy at the drop of a hat.   This is one of the things I most dislike about him,   but he is not an ideologue.   He just wants to win,  and he thinks he can do so by pandering to whatever he thinks is popular at the time.   


He simply doesn't care about the ideological disputes between the parties.   He just wants to be President because it is the last thing an egomaniac can do to demonstrate "he's the Man."  That he's the "big dog daddy."    "The Head Cheese."  The "Host with the most."   

Tump is ego driven,  and this pursuit of the Presidency is for the exact same reason he has done everything else in his life.   To blow his own horn.   

The only thing reassuring about him is that he is a man,  and intelligent enough to have created and ran a successful business empire.  (All Hillary did was screw Bill.)   He has also made enough promises regarding what he would do in terms of Judicial appointments that I believe he would lose too much face (which is really the only thing he cares about)   to back out of those promises. 




To my mind, if  there's a group of your supporters that is announcing their aim of causing trouble, you at least make the announcement that their intended actions are unwelcome.  Whether that group listens is beyond your control.  But I think there is the responsibility to at least make the attempt.  If you don't, then I think it is reasonable to assume you agree with their plans. 


I think Trump has a better grasp of human nature and populism than do you.   Most people don't even notice these fringe incidents,   and often in politics you are better off not drawing attention to bad stuff than you are in making an issue out of it.   As Lyndon Johnson pointed out in one of his campaigns:


Quote
Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumor campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his own barnyard sows.

“Christ, we can’t get a way calling him a pig-f****,” the campaign manager protested.  “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”

“I know,” Johnson replied.  “But let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”


If you are denying something,  you are playing on your enemies terms.   



Now, I'm not convinced that Trump actively agrees with that Nazi faction.  There are actions, or maybe there are inactions, that lead me to believe he has no problem looking the other way because he wants their vote.  I have a problem with that.


Politics ain't beanbag.    I don't approve of this tactic,   but I have no doubt that is exactly what it is.   Again,  Trump isn't an ideologue.   He really doesn't care what people want to believe,  so long as he can get them to vote for him.   


He really doesn't mind getting down into the sewer to win.   


I am consoled by the fact that at least he puts up a fight,  unlike many of our past candidates who let the Democrats walk all over them.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2016, 02:25:21 pm »
I always find it amusing that the supporters of a Populist quasi Liberal preaching Nationalism and with not one shred of Conservatism in his bones have the audacity to put scare quotes around the word Conservative when referring to Reaganist style COnstitutional Conservatives who actually have principles morals and a belief in Liberty.

That's because Trumpers are lazy thinkers.

My experiment with Trumpers who promote him as the 2nd coming of Teddy Roosevelt is to ask them what made TR so conservative. I generally get 1 of 2 answers. They either don't know or they say he was tough on border control and both answers prove their intellectual laziness.  Not knowing but calling him conservative is obvious ignorance. Claiming he was conservative because he was tough on the border shows ignorance of the time TR lived in. Well known progressive Woodrow Wilson was also tough on the border as was Coolidge who epitomizes true conservative republicanism.

Roosevelt is actually a good example of how Trump behaves but has nothing to do with conservatism. After all, TR set the feds on the path of grabbing land in the name of the environment, imposed onerous taxes and regulations on industry, supported eugenics and generally grew government in many other ways.

After leaving office and getting his knickers in a knot he ran as a republican again but threw a tantrum over the fact that he was winning on pure numbers but losing in the delegate game to Taft so he went off and helped found the Progressive party (unofficially known as the Bull Moose party) Their party platform included such gems as supporting the direct election of senators (17th amendment), a "socially responsible tax structure, nationalized health care, social security, and national popular vote for president. They also refused to accept southern blacks into their party because they were too economically and socially conservative.

and back to one more similarity between Trump and TR.


Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2016, 02:27:34 pm »
@DiogenesLamp

Robert Reich was right even if his reasons are wrong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W5e7AwqksU


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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #60 on: July 05, 2016, 02:29:09 pm »
Doesn't anyone find it odd that Trump will court the 'fringe' elements such as the skinhead vote, but went well out of his way to solidly alienate a large base of Constitutional Conservatives?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #61 on: July 05, 2016, 03:06:53 pm »
Doesn't anyone find it odd that Trump will court the 'fringe' elements such as the skinhead vote, but went well out of his way to solidly alienate a large base of Constitutional Conservatives?

I find it strange that someone like Limbaugh is saying that the very thing that would destroy Romney in 2012 is exactly the winning strategy for Trump.

RUSH: Well, every poll I've seen of Republican primary voters, he can't crack 30 percent. It has been curious. And you look at it from the reverse, 70 percent of Republican voters want somebody else. This is why we have the phenomenon of the "Not-Romney." Bachmann was the "Not-Romney" for a while. Herman Cain was the "Not-Romney." Now Newt is the "Not-Romney."  I think it boils down to something that's not complicated at all. Republican primary voters are conservative. They don't believe that Romney is. They believe that he will stick a finger in the air and moisten it and see which way the winds are blowing and try to get in that direction.  They remember that Romney said he believes in global warming and he believes that man is causing it. Well, conservatives don't believe that. They believe it's a hoax. Conservatives know that the whole story of man-made global warming is a hoax. And they're not going to get excited by a candidate who is trying to gain favor with non-Republican primary voters by articulating that stuff.

Here's the big problem, Greta, for the Republicans. And I am a lone wolf on this. The rule of thumb in elections, both parties, 40 percent are going to vote Democrat automatically, whatever you do, 40 percent are going to vote Republican, automatic, no matter what you do. And in the middle, who do we have? The precious, God love them, independents and the moderates. And they are the targets. They are the focus of every election.  And our brilliant campaign consultants tell our candidates they are the ones that know how to go get a majority of those independents. And we have, as Republicans, put ourselves in prison to this whole silly notion that you only win elections by moving to the center and getting great independents. Fine and dandy, but if you squander your base in the process, you haven't a prayer.

The Republican Party is trying to do something in this primary that is unprecedented. They're trying to split the conservative vote and win the primary with a moderate, with Romney. It's the other way around. You consolidate your base and then you move to the center in the general. The Republican establishment has decided they don't want any part of conservatism. And this is really not new. People are surprised to hear this, but the Republican Party formative event with conservatism is Goldwater's landslide defeat. That's what they think of when they think conservative. They don't think Reagan.  They think Goldwater.


http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/12/15/rush_goes_on_the_record_with_fox_news_channel_s_greta_van_susteren

I personally think there will be a great clearing of the field for a new breed of conservative talkers. Rush will survive but he'll be damaged. Coulter seems content to be crowned Queen of the Aryan Brotherhood and will be largely forgotten by the mainstream public. I predict Sean Hannity will be leaving FOX news sometime before Christmas of 2017.

Those who have continued to press and question Trump on principles and conservative thought like Mark Levin will come out looking pretty wise.

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #62 on: July 05, 2016, 08:27:21 pm »

Not equal at all.  As I said before,  in the Republican party,  kooks are on the fringe.   In the Democrat party,   they are the mainstream.   
---
Most people haven't noticed it for two reasons.   Because it seldom manifests,  and  because they don't think along those lines.   The Republican primary voters won't recognize Trump's soft pandering to the fringe because they have no connection to the fringe.  It simply flies right over their heads.
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Okay,  this is a reasonable point,  but wasn't the Klan mainstream back in 1927?     Most people gave it up when they saw where it was going,  and today it is a fringe group with no significant support anywhere in the Nation.   
---
There were a *LOT*  of influential people in the 1920s who had jumped on the Klan bandwagon for awhile,   but they grew out of it.  Democrat connections to the Klan have been mentioned quite a lot,  but never seem to gain any attention for some reason.   
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But yes,  I can see where that would fill someone with misgivings about him.  I actually didn't know about this,   and I don't like it. 
---
And I've already said why I think he does things like this.   It's not because he actually believes any of that,  it's because he thinks his base of supporters do.   
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Which should have already happened,   and likely would have had we not ended up with an idiot running the country.   
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If you are telling me that "it's too hard",   then I will point out that it's not nearly as hard as it will be to recover from the usage of a Nuclear weapon by that cadre of religious nut-jobs.     Under no circumstances should a doomsday cult ever be allowed to get their hands on nuclear weapons.   
---
I don't think anyone makes bombs out of Uranium anymore.   They use enriched Uranium to transmute U-238 into plutonium,   and then they make bombs out of plutonium.    And no,  we haven't set them back at all.   They probably have enough fissionable material to make a crude bomb now.   To start WW III,  all they need is one. 
---
Nonsense.  Iran has not stopped or even slowed down.   Only an idiot thinks those kooks can be trusted to keep their word.   And Obama is that idiot.

---
I don't think that is much of a problem.   They have enough sufficiently talented and knowledgeable scientists to pull that off now.   Much of bomb design is out there for the people who want to learn of it,   and I don't doubt they have espionage obtained information that shortcuts much of the development process.   
---
I predict a success on their first try. 
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Non sequitur.   Your above arguments do not constitute proof that such a conclusion is true.   You have not mentioned any of the objectionable things about Hillary,   and until you've covered those,  you can't claim objectivity in your analysis. 
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From what I have learned of Hillary over the years,   Trump would have to have done some really really bad stuff to be anywhere near an equal footing of "badness"  with her,  let alone surpass her.   
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And that's Trump support in a nutshell.   They see someone who doesn't pull punches and who bitchslaps anyone who messes with him,   and they like that.   That he might be dog-whistling to the kooks,   simply goes over their heads. 
---
Letting Hillary get her hands on Federal power is far more likely to produce a burning American than anyone else.

I'm not saying it's 'too hard'.  I'm saying that without troops on the ground, occupying the territory of Iran... there is no physical method that we possess that can destroy their facilities.  Not even the use of our own nukes.  And the only way to get boots on the ground is to have a staging area to do so. 

Since you are so gall-durned sure about this, find us a spot to do so.  And find the money to pay for the war.
---
And yes, nukes are made from uranium.  Plutonium is easier on the design side, but is a right b#$@h to make and purify.  Whereas uranium is easier to get ahold of and enrich, but the design of a uranium bomb is much more difficult.

Furthermore, you don't use enriched uranium to turn U-238 into plutonium.  That comes from reactor 'waste' after months of use.  The reactor core has to be emptied and then the highly radioactive 'spent' fuel then has to be 'refined' to seperate out the plutonium.

Enriched uranium is simply regular uranium that has been centrifugally seperated to extract the U-235.  And that takes a *LOT* of time to get from natural (less than 5% enriched) to the required 90+% enriched needed for a nuclear bomb. 

And now we have Irans stockpile of that, meaning they have to start over again if they want to build up a new stockpile.
---
If you don't think that taking away their key weapons-making ingredient isn't slowing them down... I have some tropical waterfront property in central Canada you might be interested in.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2016, 10:00:35 pm »



What you are putting forth is known as the "fallacy of false choice."   You restrict the choices to two,  and then demand I pick one.   No,  there is a third choice.   Trump has a common delusion about the Republican base that is shared by many elite New Yorkers,   and he is erroneously pandering to what he *thinks* is the base,  but has no intention of taking them seriously once he gets in.   


And why do I say this?   Trump has demonstrated time and again that he will change position or policy at the drop of a hat.   This is one of the things I most dislike about him,   but he is not an ideologue.   He just wants to win,  and he thinks he can do so by pandering to whatever he thinks is popular at the time.   


He simply doesn't care about the ideological disputes between the parties.   He just wants to be President because it is the last thing an egomaniac can do to demonstrate "he's the Man."  That he's the "big dog daddy."    "The Head Cheese."  The "Host with the most."   

Tump is ego driven,  and this pursuit of the Presidency is for the exact same reason he has done everything else in his life.   To blow his own horn.   

The only thing reassuring about him is that he is a man,  and intelligent enough to have created and ran a successful business empire.  (All Hillary did was screw Bill.)   He has also made enough promises regarding what he would do in terms of Judicial appointments that I believe he would lose too much face (which is really the only thing he cares about)   to back out of those promises. 





I think Trump has a better grasp of human nature and populism than do you.   Most people don't even notice these fringe incidents,   and often in politics you are better off not drawing attention to bad stuff than you are in making an issue out of it.   As Lyndon Johnson pointed out in one of his campaigns:



If you are denying something,  you are playing on your enemies terms.   




Politics ain't beanbag.    I don't approve of this tactic,   but I have no doubt that is exactly what it is.   Again,  Trump isn't an ideologue.   He really doesn't care what people want to believe,  so long as he can get them to vote for him.   


He really doesn't mind getting down into the sewer to win.   


I am consoled by the fact that at least he puts up a fight,  unlike many of our past candidates who let the Democrats walk all over them.

Of course there are more reasons than two I listed, but what I was leading to was my reasoning for coming to the conclusions I did, which it seems we both seem to agree is that he'll do/say anything for a vote.

Offline Fantom

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2016, 12:14:22 am »


Stop it.  Just stop it.   The flaming *NAZI*  in this election is Hilllary-Gestapo-Clinton.   


Her brownshirts have already attacked people.   If she gets in power,  she will turn the apparatus of the State against us.    We will be hunted like the Jews in the aftermath of Kristallnacht.

How do I know this?   She's already done similar things when she was first lady.   Anyone remember "filegate"?   "Travelgate"?   


Hitlery is a natural Nazi.   Everything she's ever done has been totalitarian or totalitarian leaning.

No Hillary is a natural corruptocrat... it is trump who portends all you convey.

Remember, a surrogate fascist named palin calling all of us who do not goosestep with trump a "traitor". Or trump silencing any dissent/criticism.. reporters...  if they do not suport me they will not speak and should be barred from any public office... this lying scumbag is the fascist trump.

Far far worse than the corrupticrat Hillary ..IMHO.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline Fantom

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2016, 12:19:48 am »
That's because Trumpers are lazy thinkers.

My experiment with Trumpers who promote him as the 2nd coming of Teddy Roosevelt is to ask them what made TR so conservative. I generally get 1 of 2 answers. They either don't know or they say he was tough on border control and both answers prove their intellectual laziness.  Not knowing but calling him conservative is obvious ignorance. Claiming he was conservative because he was tough on the border shows ignorance of the time TR lived in. Well known progressive Woodrow Wilson was also tough on the border as was Coolidge who epitomizes true conservative republicanism.

Roosevelt is actually a good example of how Trump behaves but has nothing to do with conservatism. After all, TR set the feds on the path of grabbing land in the name of the environment, imposed onerous taxes and regulations on industry, supported eugenics and generally grew government in many other ways.

After leaving office and getting his knickers in a knot he ran as a republican again but threw a tantrum over the fact that he was winning on pure numbers but losing in the delegate game to Taft so he went off and helped found the Progressive party (unofficially known as the Bull Moose party) Their party platform included such gems as supporting the direct election of senators (17th amendment), a "socially responsible tax structure, nationalized health care, social security, and national popular vote for president. They also refused to accept southern blacks into their party because they were too economically and socially conservative.

and back to one more similarity between Trump and TR.



 I knew some of that.. thank you for the education.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline Fantom

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2016, 12:22:54 am »
Doesn't anyone find it odd that Trump will court the 'fringe' elements such as the skinhead vote, but went well out of his way to solidly alienate a large base of Constitutional Conservatives?


The world wonders.

Although I would say trump alienates ALL limited/Constitutional Conservatives. What bothers me is that he alienates the Romney types too.... strange times.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

Frederick Douglass

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #67 on: July 06, 2016, 03:00:41 am »
I'm not saying it's 'too hard'.  I'm saying that without troops on the ground, occupying the territory of Iran... there is no physical method that we possess that can destroy their facilities.  Not even the use of our own nukes.  And the only way to get boots on the ground is to have a staging area to do so. 


Their facilities all have entrances that can be collapsed in the manner as did the British to the German Missile Fortress in WWII.    A facility that you can neither enter or leave,  ceases to be a useful facility.   






Since you are so gall-durned sure about this, find us a spot to do so.  And find the money to pay for the war.
---


Sure,  right after you find the money to pay for the loss of a million people from an Iranian nuke.   I bet my cost will be far less than yours.   

Had the Allies stopped Hitler at the Sudentenland,   millions of people might still be alive,   but a war weary world thought they would get peace on the cheap. 





And yes, nukes are made from uranium.  Plutonium is easier on the design side, but is a right b#$@h to make and purify.  Whereas uranium is easier to get ahold of and enrich, but the design of a uranium bomb is much more difficult.


What you are saying here is reverse to what my understanding of the subject is.   Plutonium separates chemically.  Uranium 235 must be laboriously processed through various methods to enrich it.    The first nuke was a simple "gun-bomb"  design,  and was considered so easy to make that they didn't even bother testing it.   


Of course,  more efficient designs of Uranium bomb may very well be quite difficult,   but having not been involved in such things,   I can't say with any degree of certainty,   but I used to know people who did.   



Furthermore, you don't use enriched uranium to turn U-238 into plutonium.  That comes from reactor 'waste' after months of use.  The reactor core has to be emptied and then the highly radioactive 'spent' fuel then has to be 'refined' to separate out the plutonium.


Yes,  but the fissile material that drives the transmutation is U235.   U238 cores get partially converted to Plutonium (and a lot of other nasty stuff)  which is then separated chemically;  A far easier process.   



Enriched uranium is simply regular uranium that has been centrifugally seperated to extract the U-235.  And that takes a *LOT* of time to get from natural (less than 5% enriched) to the required 90+% enriched needed for a nuclear bomb. 


They also use gaseous diffusion,  and possibly Calutrons.   I know Saddam was using Calutrons,  and supposedly they had figured out a way to drastically increase their efficiency. 

This is one we bombed. 





And now we have Irans stockpile of that, meaning they have to start over again if they want to build up a new stockpile.



So we are told.    I don't believe that. 


If you don't think that taking away their key weapons-making ingredient isn't slowing them down... I have some tropical waterfront property in central Canada you might be interested in.


And if you think they have told us the truth,   Trump has a bridge in Jersey that he would like to sell you.   


And why on earth would I want to live in the socialist "paradise"  of Canada? 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2016, 03:03:04 am »
Of course there are more reasons than two I listed, but what I was leading to was my reasoning for coming to the conclusions I did, which it seems we both seem to agree is that he'll do/say anything for a vote.


No argument.  Yes,  that is the way I see him too. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

HonestJohn

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Re: Violent Pro-Trump Neo-Nazis to Crash GOP Convention
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2016, 05:23:17 am »

Their facilities all have entrances that can be collapsed in the manner as did the British to the German Missile Fortress in WWII.    A facility that you can neither enter or leave,  ceases to be a useful facility.   




---


Sure,  right after you find the money to pay for the loss of a million people from an Iranian nuke.   I bet my cost will be far less than yours.   

Had the Allies stopped Hitler at the Sudentenland,   millions of people might still be alive,   but a war weary world thought they would get peace on the cheap. 






What you are saying here is reverse to what my understanding of the subject is.   Plutonium separates chemically.  Uranium 235 must be laboriously processed through various methods to enrich it.    The first nuke was a simple "gun-bomb"  design,  and was considered so easy to make that they didn't even bother testing it.   


Of course,  more efficient designs of Uranium bomb may very well be quite difficult,   but having not been involved in such things,   I can't say with any degree of certainty,   but I used to know people who did.   




Yes,  but the fissile material that drives the transmutation is U235.   U238 cores get partially converted to Plutonium (and a lot of other nasty stuff)  which is then separated chemically;  A far easier process.   




They also use gaseous diffusion,  and possibly Calutrons.   I know Saddam was using Calutrons,  and supposedly they had figured out a way to drastically increase their efficiency. 

This is one we bombed. 







So we are told.    I don't believe that. 



And if you think they have told us the truth,   Trump has a bridge in Jersey that he would like to sell you.   


And why on earth would I want to live in the socialist "paradise"  of Canada?

Your statements on the nuclear production cycle are flatly false.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 05:23:51 am by HonestJohn »