Americans can choose better than Trump

[Mechanicos]

LOL... Kudos... you have proven Denial is not a river in Egypt.

#LOL@trumpnutters.

When you wake up, try reality.

Yeah well Look at Hilary's "suggestions," Still feeling good about it?

[Fantom]

Yeah well Look at Hilary's "suggestions," Still feeling good about it?

It was about Scam Wows word.... not vague  clintonion "suggestions".

Still feel good about trump...don't bother answering.

[Mechanicos]

It was about Scam Wows word.... not vague  clintonion "suggestions".

Still feel good about trump...don't bother answering.

Yeah I feel good about Trump, but then I'm rational not emotional.

[RoosGirl]

Suggestion is a proper term here. For one hes not the President, so until and unless he is elected all he can do is suggest. Which by the way means to propose, put forth etc all terms used normally by candidates. For example all of Cruz's Campaign proposals are now nothing more then suggestions...

This is such a non-answer answer.  Yes, it's a suggestion; when he was for banning muslims it was a suggestion also, then he changed the suggestion.  The point isn't whether it was actual policy, it couldn't have been because he's not in office. The point is, he changed his position, proposal, suggestion, what he put forth; change, conversion, metamorphosis, flip-flop, shift, reversal.

[Fantom]

Yeah I feel good about Trump, but then I'm rational not emotional.

No, you are delusional.

trump lied about his "muslim" ban to get votes. Now he lies about it being "just a suggestion".... or is this the real Scam Wowo?

Nothing emotional about pegging trump as a lair. And any votes given trump for trumps .."Muslim' ban are now free to vote their conscience.... as it was just a suggestion who they vote for in the first place.

trump lies... his vote dies.

[WAC]

Yeah I feel good about Trump, but then I'm rational not emotional.

Great response! The emotions among some here, who oppose Trump, have escalated of late....

I think that those who (at this time of the election cycle),  have thought through and understand the political climate, looked at options, etc. know their decision did not come easy to be willing to vote for Trump. It's not about emotions...it's about choosing which candidate for President to get behind so we can change the trajectory this country is in.....and certainly to keep Hillary out of Washington!

[Mechanicos]

No, you are delusional.

trump lied about his "muslim" ban to get votes. Now he lies about it being "just a suggestion".... or is this the real Scam Wowo?

Nothing emotional about pegging trump as a lair. And any votes given trump for trumps .."Muslim' ban are now free to vote their conscience.... as it was just a suggestion who they vote for in the first place.

trump lies... his vote dies.

Muslims do not agree with you that he lied about it Now they saw and heard the same things you did. So why are the opinions different. Could it be because the sources you trust for information were not totally honest with you?

[WAC]

This is such a non-answer answer.  Yes, it's a suggestion; when he was for banning muslims it was a suggestion also, then he changed the suggestion.  The point isn't whether it was actual policy, it couldn't have been because he's not in office. The point is, he changed his position, proposal, suggestion, what he put forth; change, conversion, metamorphosis, flip-flop, shift, reversal.

The bottom line is Trump is at the very least willing to see that though all Muslims are not radical extremists ..he knows and identifies that all the radicals are Muslim, who are yelling allah akbar prior to blowing themselves up.......and for that he wants immigration and profiling back on the table to stop this as much as it's possible to stop. Especially from countries that clearly want Americans dead.

On the other hand we absolutely know that  Ol Hillary will open wide the borders for all the third world peoples to flood in while giving amnesty to the many already here....and she will continue loading our nations government offices and  agencies, security and otherwise, with Muslim Brotherhood as well as other unsavory characters..

[RoosGirl]

The bottom line is Trump is at the very least willing to see that though all Muslims are not radical extremists ..he knows and identifies that all the radicals are Muslim, who are yelling allah akbar prior to blowing themselves up.......and for that he wants immigration and profiling back on the table to stop this as much as it's possible to stop. Especially from countries that clearly want Americans dead.

On the other hand we absolutely know that  Ol Hillary will open wide the borders for all the third world peoples to flood in while giving amnesty to the many already here....and she will continue loading our nations government offices and  agencies, security and otherwise, with Muslim Brotherhood as well as other unsavory characters..

Great.  Thanks for explaining that.  We were talking about a flip flop on policy/suggestion/whateverBSwordyouwanttocallittomakeyourself"feelgood".  In that context the policy does not matter, that it changed from one thing to another is what we are talking about.

[WAC]

Thank you for that well thought out post.....

I'm sorry that some Trump supporters have become so unreasonable.....I think they feel they have to 'defend their position' rather than win over people to Trump because some are really getting hammered here now...... I feel like that when it happens and find best just to leave the thread .....It was not that way when I first came here. ..and I was fully opposed to Trump until the reality light came on, which by the way I fought that as well. 

Have been totally in Cruz's court clear back in 2014.....and so excited that finally a Constitutional Man was in the running. Admittedly disappointment when he lost was profound .... I simply could not understand the fickleness of the public in not identifying what this man had been doing in Washington, that we are so close to taking our country back, and that he has the stage set to do just that.  But that's not what they wanted....clearly...so here we are.

I understand that several in the Trump camp have spoken 'often' with Cruz to resolve the rift between the two. It's going to take time but if there are no other options I cannot imagine Cruz not supporting Trump when it comes down to the wire because he will not hand it over to Hillary under any circumstances.

Take your time in deciding which direction you're going to go.......there's still plenty of time to decide that.  But seriously don't put too much into what supporters on either side say when they're thumping the table. ....unfortunately it does go with elections when there's so much to win or lose. ......and I do truly believe if we don't get our an in there, no matter which one he is....we'll never regain any ground after Hillary picks up Obama's wand and carries us lightspeed.

[Fantom]

Muslims do not agree with you that he lied about it Now they saw and heard the same things you did. So why are the opinions different. Could it be because the sources you trust for information were not totally honest with you?

So you go with CAIR as your source for news...got it.

I posted from the Horses Arse.......  trumps own words.

Meh?

[RoosGirl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh7XaJlvJIg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxtTF74telQ  - starting at 3:40, ban immigration from terrorist countries

[WAC]

We were talking about a flip flop on policy/suggestion/.  ...., that it changed from one thing to another is what we are talking about.

I certainly  do understand the thread....but perhaps you should consider that this is a Presidential run where it's well known, and expected, that candidates are going to appear to flip and slide and change depending on the political leanings of those they are either speaking with or addressing, as they have a wide swath of voters to gleen from.

When my candidate announced I already knew his positions very well.....and I determined to give him lots of wiggle room throughout his run....to do,... to say... and to act in whatever it would take to win.  And that is a very difficult high wire to walk for a seasoned politician to do in any election.  Trump does not have that 'edge'.....so he falls off the wire periodically and then folks run with it when he does....especially the press and those who oppose him....but he is earning and always gets right back up on that wire..and that's just the fact we've all seen and observed....like him or not.

We are headed into the general and I will do likewise with Trump in giving him lots of room...especially for Trump because the guy has just barely got his footing  in running his campaign, (which by the way got him the nomination thus far), and a completely new way to campaign as well....never done before, never tried....and thus far it's certainly working for him.

 His policy positions are on his web site, they've been added to and subtracted from and enlarged upon as he goes......like it or not this is a making of a President we are watching....not just a politician. And he is learning how to formulate clear and precise polices to "what Americans want"......as long those are for America.

Believe him or not as you wish.....but the more I investigate 'HOW" this man operates in positioning himself on the board in play, under horrendous stress and bombardment from every direction.......the more I see one who will not bend to our enemies as President as well....and could very well handle far more than most might imagine.

[Mechanicos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh7XaJlvJIg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxtTF74telQ  - starting at 3:40, ban immigration from terrorist countries

His original was a ban on all Muslims until we can figure out what is going on. His current is a ban on Muslims from Terrorist countries until we can figure what is going on. So you call that a walk back.... Seems the same issue and policy, stop the Muslims terrorists from coming in and to set up a way to prevent them from coming in.

So its more focused on countries where terrorism is going on. Its not a reversal, its not even a major change. Its still the same thing Stop the terrorists from coming in.

I know you need a walk back (Democrat created term) so as to keep the rage going but he did not say he was reversing anything. He focused it more.

[RoosGirl]

I certainly  do understand the thread....but perhaps you should consider that this is a Presidential run where it's well known, and expected, that candidates are going to appear to flip and slide and change depending on the political leanings of those they are either speaking with or addressing, as they have a wide swath of voters to gleen from.

When my candidate announced I already knew his positions very well.....and I determined to give him lots of wiggle room throughout his run....to do,... to say... and to act in whatever it would take to win.  And that is a very difficult high wire to walk for a seasoned politician to do in any election.  Trump does not have that 'edge'.....so he falls off the wire periodically and then folks run with it when he does....especially the press and those who oppose him....but he is earning and always gets right back up on that wire..and that's just the fact we've all seen and observed....like him or not.

We are headed into the general and I will do likewise with Trump in giving him lots of room...especially for Trump because the guy has just barely got his footing  in running his campaign, (which by the way got him the nomination thus far), and a completely new way to campaign as well....never done before, never tried....and thus far it's certainly working for him.

 His policy positions are on his web site, they've been added to and subtracted from and enlarged upon as he goes......like it or not this is a making of a President we are watching....not just a politician. And he is learning how to formulate clear and precise polices to "what Americans want"......as long those are for America.

Believe him or not as you wish.....but the more I investigate 'HOW" this man operates in positioning himself on the board in play, under horrendous stress and bombardment from every direction.......the more I see one who will not bend to our enemies as President as well....and could very well handle far more than most might imagine.

There are several problems with that.  Some Trump supporters here want us to believe that there's been no flip-flops.  It's nice that you can admit that that is what has happened.  My next problem is that given Trump's recent history just prior to announcing that he was running and for as far back as I can tell, he's had quite a number of liberal positions and been supportive of liberals.  So which am I to believe is the "true" Trump?  I'm not really in to guessing what people mean, but since he has been unclear, my impression is that he slid right for the primaries and is moving himself back to where he came from, the left.

[r9etb]

What cause has trump ever championed?

Aside from championing his own cause, you mean?

[Mechanicos]

Your question to Mechanicos is worth posting again even if he cannot answer it. What cause has trump ever championed in his long life? Posting his promises of this campaign is not answering the question...What cause has trump ever championed?

http://dennismichaellynch.com/must-see-donald-trumps-position-on-the-blm/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/anti-gun-control-rally-albany-brings-trump-article-1.1742627
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/18/donald-trump-concealed-carry-right-not-privilege/http://concealednation.org/2015/09/trump-lays-down-thoughts-on-concealed-carry-supports-national-reciprocity/
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/01/flashback-trump-saved-ny-veterans-day-parade/

More,  but you do not care for evidence that proves you wrong, it gets ignored.

[RoosGirl]

His original was a ban on all Muslims until we can figure out what is going on. His current is a ban on Muslims from Terrorist countries until we can figure what is going on. So you call that a walk back.... Seems the same issue and policy, stop the Muslims terrorists from coming in and to set up a way to prevent them from coming in.

So its more focused on countries where terrorism is going on. Its not a reversal, its not even a major change. Its still the same thing Stop the terrorists from coming in.

I know you need a walk back (Democrat created term) so as to keep the rage going but he did not say he was reversing anything. He focused it more.

You misinterpret, there's no rage.  There is exasperation with the willingness to give a pass to ignorance from Trump and acting as though there is no room for improvement in the crazy stuff he says.  There is annoyance with the supporters that resort to lying to try  to sway opinion to their side.
 
Immigration absolutely needs to be repaired.  How ignorant of Trump to "suggest" that an entire religion be banned.  He has a habit of making unconstitutional "suggestions" and I have a huge problem with that.  Anti-constitution pretty much makes him a liberal.

[Mechanicos]

You misinterpret, there's no rage.  There is exasperation with the willingness to give a pass to ignorance from Trump and acting as though there is no room for improvement in the crazy stuff he says.  There is annoyance with the supporters that resort to lying to try  to sway opinion to their side.
 
Immigration absolutely needs to be repaired.  How ignorant of Trump to "suggest" that an entire religion be banned.  He has a habit of making unconstitutional "suggestions" and I have a huge problem with that.  Anti-constitution pretty much makes him a liberal.

I do not know this but its possible that he really does not like Islam after people he knew were murdered by them on 911. So assuming its a personal thing for him, I do not think hes going to turn on us in favor of them. Consider, the time he switched to  Democrat was only during Bush's terms. Bush was a willing tool of Saudi. The Hijackers were almost all from Saudi. Too much coincidence.

And no its not anti-Constitutional. We have been at war with Islam since America's inception. This is just another phase of it. An invasion. Seems we had no problems with that before why should it be now? See Islam is not a Religion as such its an ideology that is incompatible and hostile to the US Constitution.

[Mechanicos]

Actually I will admit that he did speak at anti-gun rallies per your article and could be considered at championing a cause. One of your links doesn't work. One is from January 2016 which is this election year. The part about giving 1 million for the veterans parade would have to be verified as almost all accounts of trump's giving turns out to be his foundation which he actually doesn't give much money to.

Your insult about not caring about evidence is the typical crap you throw out.    I check virtually all links in discussions I participate in and admit when I am wrong. You, on the other hand will tie yourself in silly knots when there is no defense to your position...... 

Edited to add information about the donation to the parade.

You can find one example right on Trump's own website, where Trump boasts of saving an annual veterans parade in 1995 with his participation, and a cash donation, "Mr. Trump agreed to lead as grand marshal," and "made a $1 million matching donation to finance the Nation's Day Parade."
Trump did save the event, according to the parade's organizer, but he didn't give $1 million to it.
Vincent McGowan, the president emeritus of the United War Veterans of New York and the organizer of the Nation's Day Parade in 1995 told CNN the actual donation amount was somewhere between $325,000 and $375,000 -- but it wasn't $1 million.
McGowan also said Trump never was grand marshal of the Nation's Day Parade, because only veterans were honored with that position, and Trump was not a veteran. Though McGowan said "it's true" that Trump does work to support veterans.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/politics/donald-trump-veteran-charity-discrepancy/

And again I would have to see if trump wrote the check or if it was the foundation. It seems that the foundation has been a great way for trump to get publicity for donating money, people think it his money and in reality it is not.

I take Trumps word over CNN any day.

[Mechanicos]

Pretty obvious that you will believe absolutely anything that comes out of trump's mouth.

Hardly, But I know the media lies. So do you know they lie.

[WAC]

There are several problems with that.  Some Trump supporters here want us to believe that there's been no flip-flops.  It's nice that you can admit that that is what has happened.  My next problem is that given Trump's recent history just prior to announcing that he was running and for as far back as I can tell, he's had quite a number of liberal positions and been supportive of liberals.  So which am I to believe is the "true" Trump?  I'm not really in to guessing what people mean, but since he has been unclear, my impression is that he slid right for the primaries and is moving himself back to where he came from, the left.

Well I had that problem as well...because he did lean further as a liberal before he began his run....yet his history also reflects, at least in what I've researched, that he wasn't always in one camp or another, which might account for the fact he so often refers to the fact that "you've got to be flexible" we've heard repeated.  And I think that is just the way Trump plays it in order to arrive at the desired end he's looking for.  I don't think you can really put him in a particular camp politically. He's going to swing because that's what he's about to get what he wants.

I think of his video when asked about abortion.....this was from years ago....he was for womans rights but hated the idea of abortion. So where did that put him? I think he was saying basically go at it if they choose abortion but the consequences of their decision was on their shoulders.  I don't think anyone believed possible millions of woman would even consider using abortion as a means of birth control....nor that millions of babies would be butchered. So as that DID happen many peoples opinions did change.
(I fought the whole Roe vs. Wade ordeal and spoke with any mothers, advocates, medical people etc.......the battle to save these children is by far the most agonizing and terrible battles one can be involved with.)

I do believe that Trump changed his positions over time, and  there is a trail you can follow. Just seems to me he goes with whatever is going to get him what he wants for how he sees the situation at hand....But I do believe he is for this country economically, also that he's for the Vets, and would be formidable against any enemy against this country. He's been steadfast pretty much in that respect. And he does see  immigration for what it is regardless if he slides on that. As well as the Islamic threat.

Well I could go on.....but I understand why you would have the problems you have I did as well.

[RoosGirl]

I do not know this but its possible that he really does not like Islam after people he knew were murdered by them on 911. So assuming its a personal thing for him, I do not think hes going to turn on us in favor of them. Consider, the time he switched to  Democrat was only during Bush's terms. Bush was a willing tool of Saudi. The Hijackers were almost all from Saudi. Too much coincidence.

And no its not anti-Constitutional. We have been at war with Islam since America's inception. This is just another phase of it. An invasion. Seems we had no problems with that before why should it be now? See Islam is not a Religion as such its an ideology that is incompatible and hostile to the US Constitution.

I read/listened to the links you provided except Breitbart which never works on my computer.  I will agree that perhaps 2 years (that's the oldest article) is long enough to be considered as championing a cause, but really, 2 years?  Color me unimpressed, but at least it's something.  If you can look past Trump giving Cuomo's campaign something like $60k.  That's asking a lot though. 

On a national level we need to have the conversation about whether islam is a religion  or not. I don't agree with it, but as far as I can tell it has been classified as a religion so far by anyone making policy.  Trump likes comparing himself to Reagan, let him be a Reagan on this.  Let him have a direct and rational discussion about what islam really is, its history, its incompatibility with  American values.  The WWE-style BS "we're gonna bomb the hell out of them", "we're going to  ban muslims" ain't gonna cut it

[Smokin Joe]

It's not about emotions...it's about choosing which candidate for President to get behind so we can change the trajectory this country is in.....

Well, that was a FAIL. I can't get behind Trump, and haven't even considered him since Iowa. I heard enough right there. What I have heard and seen since has only strengthened my resolve. Pity he is the presumptive nominee. Once again, the GOP blew it, and has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, this time by a presumptive candidate alienating their Conservative base worse than ever.

You see, a lot of us don't have those New York values, where you piss down my leg and I piss down yours and it's okay, backatcha. We don't live, deal, or do business that way. We believe in "fighting words" and affronts which are so serious we won't have anything to do with someone again.

Trump has displayed that, in spades, when he wanted to 'make nice' after an unprecedented smear campaign. Sorry, I won't support the SOB. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

I don't want someone like that for President. I don't want that conniving and murderous b*tch, either.

So, morally, I can't support either one. I am a man without a Party, and will vote my conscience, or vote for no one. Y'all vote yours, but don't try to lay the guilt for the results on me. I have been bombarded with the whole "white guilt" thing for years, and built up some resistance to Liberal imposed guilt trips. I really am not owning anything I did not endorse, and I am not about to endorse either presumptive candidate.

#SAND!

As far as changing trajectories, be careful which way y'all point that thing, because it can get worse, a lot worse, and with either of the presumptives.

[Smokin Joe]

I do not know this but its possible that he really does not like Islam after people he knew were murdered by them on 911. So assuming its a personal thing for him, I do not think hes going to turn on us in favor of them. Consider, the time he switched to  Democrat was only during Bush's terms. Bush was a willing tool of Saudi. The Hijackers were almost all from Saudi. Too much coincidence.

And no its not anti-Constitutional. We have been at war with Islam since America's inception. This is just another phase of it. An invasion. Seems we had no problems with that before why should it be now? See Islam is not a Religion as such its an ideology that is incompatible and hostile to the US Constitution.

Trump continued to do business with the Saudis, so I think there might be a flaw in your thinking what he was thinking. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-911-business-deals-a7038991.html
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/06/20/saudi-arabia-trumps-travel-ban-providing-15-19-911-hijackers.html

and other Muslim countries
http://www.hoteliermiddleeast.com/23702-exclusive-trump-eyes-uae-ksa-and-qatar-hotels/

So I don't think that 9/11 had as much effect as you seem t ascribe to it.