Trump Shows His Ignorant Side And Takes A Dump On 40 Years Of Military Excellence

[Mesaclone]

Here is my 2cents...

I am sick and tired of hearing how the military lost this war or that war...

The military has never lost a war..the politicians have lost them....stay out of the conflict and let the military do it's job they have trained for.....talk to any soldier and they will tell you the same.

This is exactly right. Our soldiers win everything they are asked to win, but at the strategic level our politicians have no idea what they are doing...and frequently squander the hard won fight that our troops have waged.

[Mesaclone]

The objective of that war was the liberation of Kuwait from the invading Iraqis. That was accomplished and the Kuwaiti government reinstated.
That's a 'win'.

 That was no guarantee in perpetuity that the situation would not change. After all, since the Sumerians, a lot has happened in that neck of the woods.

Some of you REALLY need to study some military history.

That was a tactical level win...turned into a geo-strategic failure through shortsighted strategic decisions made by politicians over the ensuing 20 years. Trump cast no aspersions on our soldiers...and try as you will you can't effectively twist his words into meaning that...he cast aspersions on the dumba$$ strategic choices made by our leaders which squandered the blood, sweat and tears given by our troops.

Unlike your absurd linkage to early Sumeria, the Gulf war is directly linked to our current strategic efforts in that region...and its outcome was diluted and degraded by ensuing geo-strategic error that turned tactical victory into strategic morass. If you can't see the connections, you are not looking hard enough because they are not hidden or obscure. The connections are direct, relevant and even ongoing.

[Mesaclone]

One of my best friends growing up came back from that war a mental basket case. Never recovered. Burns my ass to have some internet fraud and his master piss all over that accomplishment. By a supposedly 'fellow "Marine".

Quite the opposite, Trump honored the men who fought...and dishonored those who squandered their hard won tactical victory.  You WANT this to be Trump insulting the troops...but it just isn't. Not remotely. You need to up your reading comprehension and listening skills...because you clearly don't understand anything he's said on this topic. Slamming the fools that squandered the victories of our troops...is not slamming the troops. The kind of contortions necessary to draw such a diametrically opposite meaning from what was said...is a hallmark of both liberals and NeverTrumps...another thing they seem to have in common.

[sinkspur]

Some of you REALLY need to study some military history.

That was a tactical level win...turned into a geo-strategic failure through shortsighted strategic decisions made by politicians over the ensuing 20 years. Trump cast no aspersions on our soldiers...and try as you will you can't effectively twist his words into meaning that...he cast aspersions on the dumba$$ strategic choices made by our leaders which squandered the blood, sweat and tears given by our troops.

Unlike your absurd linkage to early Sumeria, the Gulf war is directly linked to our current strategic efforts in that region...and its outcome was diluted and degraded by ensuing geo-strategic error that turned tactical victory into strategic morass. If you can't see the connections, you are not looking hard enough because they are not hidden or obscure. The connections are direct, relevant and even ongoing.

I have never read such meaningless bullshit in my life.  You must have passed your college exams with flying colors with your abilit to verbally vomit.

[Norm Lenhart]

Quite the opposite, Trump honored the men who fought...and dishonored those who squandered their hard won tactical victory.  You WANT this to be Trump insulting the troops...but it just isn't. Not remotely. You need to up your reading comprehension and listening skills...because you clearly don't understand anything he's said on this topic. Slamming the fools that squandered the victories of our troops...is not slamming the troops. The kind of contortions necessary to draw such a diametrically opposite meaning from what was said...is a hallmark of both liberals and NeverTrumps...another thing they seem to have in common.

Didn't you put me on ignore the other day? Do yourself and the rest of the site a favor and do it. Because I have nothing but disgust for your incorrect opinions. And I have no value for you as a human.

[Mesaclone]

As someone who is also a combat Marine veteran, and whose battery had some fun direct fire action as part of the task force that took the Kuwaiti Airport, you are wildly wrong on this.  The same Al-Sabah family that ruled Kuwait prior to the Gulf War, that was ejected by Saddam, and restored by us, is still in power.  If you're going to claim that "the enemy" controls Kuwait, then that's just you disagreeing with our political and military support of that regime in the first place.  Whether you agreed with the goals of that war or not, that war accomplished exactly what it set out to do -- eject Iraq from Kuwait.  Whether the goal should have been to replace Saddam is a different question, but you can't judge the success of a war based on your opinion that the desired political result should have been different.  We accomplished what we set out to do.

That's a victory.

This is coming from someone who has decided to hold his nose and vote for Trump.  But I really, really wish he would stop saying stupid stuff like this, because it is not going to help him with undecided voters.

Bill, we must have come very close to crossing paths. I was with 3rd Armored Division and we crossed south of Nasiryah and slammed up to the coast road after annihilating the Hammurabi and other RG remnants in Southern Iraq/Northern Kuwait...drove down through the Mile of Death into Kuwait city right as the ceasefire was going into effect. I had the dubious honor of being the first soldier to enter the Doha facility that later became a permanent base. Spent the next few days cruising around northern Kuwait City so I'm guessing we were in pretty close proximity at that point...though I don't recall running into any Marine units at the time, I know you guys were in the vicinity. Lots of Brits hanging about though!

Anyway, I digress...its just interesting to hear from other guys that were there...running around in the dark with oil all over our BDU's. Seems like a lifetime ago.

And yes, let me add, I'm quite angry that our success in that fight was mostly squandered at the Geo-strategic level over the next 20 years...and THAT is what Trump is/was referring to. The thought that anyone thinks he was saying something negative about the troops is ridiculous...again, perhaps his articulation of the point was not well executed, but I think anyone with a brain knows he was aiming his fire at political leadership not grunts.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Bill, we must have come very close to crossing paths. I was with 3rd Armored Division and we crossed south of Nasiryah and slammed up to the coast road after annihilating the Hammurabi and other RG remnants in Southern Iraq/Northern Kuwait...drove down through the Mile of Death into Kuwait city right as the ceasefire was going into effect. I had the dubious honor of being the first soldier to enter the Doha facility that later became a permanent base. Spent the next few days cruising around northern Kuwait City so I'm guessing we were in pretty close proximity at that point...though I don't recall running into any Marine units at the time, I know you guys were in the vicinity. Lots of Brits hanging about though!

Anyway, I digress...its just interesting to hear from other guys that were there...running around in the dark with oil all over our BDU's. Seems like a lifetime ago.

And yes, let me add, I'm quite angry that our success in that fight was mostly squandered at the Geo-strategic level over the next 20 years...and THAT is what Trump is/was referring to. The thought that anyone thinks he was saying something negative about the troops is ridiculous...again, perhaps his articulation of the point was not well executed, but I think anyone with a brain knows he was aiming his fire at political leadership not grunts.

Thanks for your service @Maj. Bill Martin and @Mesaclone.

[Mesaclone]

Thanks for your service @Maj. Bill Martin and @Mesaclone.

Very kind of you. As rancorous as things get here at times, we sometimes need to recall that we are all actually on the same side in the big picture.

[Mesaclone]

Didn't you put me on ignore the other day? Do yourself and the rest of the site a favor and do it. Because I have nothing but disgust for your incorrect opinions. And I have no value for you as a human.

Darn, just when I was picking out a Hallmark card for your birthday. I wish I could quit you!

[Norm Lenhart]

Darn, just when I was picking out a Hallmark card for your birthday. I wish I could quit you!

You can.

[geronl]

And yes, let me add, I'm quite angry that our success in that fight was mostly squandered at the Geo-strategic level over the next 20 years...and THAT is what Trump is/was referring to.

If that is what he was trying to say, he failed. He also failed at being coherent, but that's apparently normal for him.

[Smokin Joe]

A battle won with the enemy still operating and running it. That's a loss. Won the battle lost the war. Obama lost it for us.

Obama lost the first Gulf War? I think your internet is missing some pages.

[geronl]

And I have no value for you as a human.

I realize that dealing with trump addicts is frustrating and agitating, but you shouldn't drop to their level. Remember the adage, they'll beat you with experience with the gutter crap.

[Mesaclone]

You can.

If only. You're just too fun to let go. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right!

[Mesaclone]

I realize that dealing with trump addicts is frustrating and agitating, but you shouldn't drop to their level. Remember the adage, they'll beat you with experience with the gutter crap.

Its alright, geronl. I'm guessing there's a whole lot of Americans he doesn't value as human beings...because, you know, they're "disgustingly incorrect"...so its not like I'm special or anything. =)

[geronl]

Obama lost the first Gulf War? I think your internet is missing some pages.

I think I heard Trump blame Obama for letting Mateen's parents into the country, in 1980...

[Norm Lenhart]

I realize that dealing with trump addicts is frustrating and agitating, but you shouldn't drop to their level. Remember the adage, they'll beat you with experience with the gutter crap.

You don't understand. I genuinely have no value for people -at all-, that say, think and act as he does. They are everything wrong with America.

[Mesaclone]

I think I heard Trump blame Obama for letting Mateen's parents into the country, in 1980...

You honestly don't think Obama has squandered the positive potential of our successes fighting in Iraq and Kuwait? Is the US in a better geo-strategic position today than we were in 1991 after the Gulf War ceasefire?

[Smokin Joe]

So I guess there is no Islamic terrorism left... Nor are there any WMD's in Islamic control....

War is about survival. If the enemy can still harm you its not over. The goal of war is to defeat the enemy and secure your own survival. Are we there? No, we still have communism, we still have the Caliphate expansion. Our survival is still under threat.

We went to war with specific regimes/countries to achieve specific goals. We did not go to war with all the followers of Islam. Part and parcel of Islam is jihad, and that includes terrorism ("martyrdom"). Part of their religion includes the establishment of a Caliphate.  We did not set out to eliminate the Religion, nor its 1.4 Billion followers, so those aspects of Islam still exist, as does Islam.

We went to war with specific political entities, whether geographically bound or not, for a specific purpose, especially in Gulf War 1, which was to drive Iraqi forces from Kuwait and restore the rightful government there. Mission accomplished. The scope of that war did not include the elimination of Saddam Hussein or regime change in Iraq, as the objectives were defined.

Since Pakistan has been a member of the 'nuclear club' for decades, there are, have been, and will be nuclear weapons (WMDs) in the Control of Islamic governments. Islamic scientists are capable enough to concoct chemical weapons, and I would wager they have people who could weaponize, if not design bioweapons as well. These capabilities, if not organic, can be rented or purchased from foreign entities or individuals so inclined and there isn't a heck of a lot that can be done to stop that, short of unleashing WMDs and pounding the region to glass or similar apocalyptic actions, which would make us no better than their worst.

Short of wiping Islam and its followers from the planet there will be Islamist 'martyrs' in jihad, and the objective of a Caliphate. We did not set out to eliminate Islam. Genocide was not the objective.

Our survival is always under threat, no matter what is going on in the rest of the world. We have spent decades ignoring the most insidious threat to our survival, namely the creeping Godless Liberalism and its anti-Constitutional erosion of Liberty that is rotting our nation from within. Electing another Liberal does nothing to combat that, no matter what letter they put after their name.

[Smokin Joe]

When we won WW2 we made sure the enemy could not start up again to harm us. They lost their military production etc. We had treaties in place etc.  In the Mid East we did not stop the threat, slowed it a little but its back and stronger then before - not because of our troops but our leadership not letting our troops do their job.

Oh, bullshit. We REBUILT our enemies. Look at the Marshall Plan, Occupied Japan (under Mac Arthur no less! Both West Germany and Japan became regional economic powers because we rebuilt them!

[HonestJohn]

I'm just tired of his overused sound bite, "America doesn't win anymore, Doesn't win. We don't win with the military, we don't win on .."

He is unable to see victory in even  the smallest of battles, because it doesn't fit his narrative of lowering America's image for his political gain. He has to paint a picture of America being Un-Great, to sale "Make America Great Again."

Trump loves to tell the world just how much America is filled with a bunch of *LOSERS*...

Funny, that.

[Mesaclone]

Trump loves to tell the world just how much America is led by a bunch of *LOSERS*...

Funny, that.

Funnier that, and more accurate as to what he's said.

[HonestJohn]

Funnier that, and more accurate as to what he's said.

Don't change the content of the post quoted.

[Mesaclone]

Oh, bullshit. We REBUILT our enemies. Look at the Marshall Plan, Occupied Japan (under Mac Arthur no less! Both West Germany and Japan became regional economic powers because we rebuilt them!

Why pretend these things are mutually exclusive? They are not, as we did put limitations on their military strength and ability to use forces outside their boundaries.

Geo-strategically, the Marshall plan was brilliant and cemented the value of our military victory in WWII. Which really highlights our current geo-strategic failures in the Middle East. We won tough fights with some great soldiering, but lacked the strategic and geo-political strategy/will to turn them into lasting security. Are you actually arguing that we have? Trump is not criticizing those who fought...on the contrary he continuously praises them. What he is criticizing is the leadership that has led us into strategic defeat after our military successes. We won repeated victories on the ground, and yet our position in the Middle East is now worse than it was after 1991...that is the geo-strategic "losing" he is referring to.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Bill, we must have come very close to crossing paths. I was with 3rd Armored Division and we crossed south of Nasiryah and slammed up to the coast road after annihilating the Hammurabi and other RG remnants in Southern Iraq/Northern Kuwait...drove down through the Mile of Death into Kuwait city right as the ceasefire was going into effect. I had the dubious honor of being the first soldier to enter the Doha facility that later became a permanent base. Spent the next few days cruising around northern Kuwait City so I'm guessing we were in pretty close proximity at that point...though I don't recall running into any Marine units at the time, I know you guys were in the vicinity. Lots of Brits hanging about though!

I was with First Marine Division, 11th Marines, Task Force Papa Bear.  So we did the whole minefield breach, then drove north.  Our eventual assignment was the airfield, so my unit spent a fair bit of time more or less in the oil fields.  Nasty stuff once they were lit on fire.  But we never got to go north of the airport  -- I think Second Marine Division went a bit further north on our left flank.  We were right in the middle of Al-Burqan oil field at one point -- a real shit show because you couldn't see or even hear a damn thing.  All black smoke and the roaring like jet engines constantly  Mines were everywhere, too, not just in the damn minefields.  Lost my youngest Marine to one of those things.  Only took one other casualty, though, during a direct fire shootout with some armored vehicles.

Anyway, I digress...its just interesting to hear from other guys that were there...running around in the dark with oil all over our BDU's. Seems like a lifetime ago.

No kidding.  Still have my tactical maps and notebook, though.  Including the modified lyrics to Bad Company's "Shooting Star" that we wrote about one of our fellow officers.  Acting as an FO, he actually had the distinction of twice trying to call fire down on the CG's command vehicle.  Battalion S-3 finally got sick of him and relieved him right over the air.

A

nd yes, let me add, I'm quite angry that our success in that fight was mostly squandered at the Geo-strategic level over the next 20 years...and THAT is what Trump is/was referring to. The thought that anyone thinks he was saying something negative about the troops is ridiculous...again, perhaps his articulation of the point was not well executed, but I think anyone with a brain knows he was aiming his fire at political leadership not grunts.

But here's the problem -- what he intended to say doesn't matter, because the press and his opponents are going to run with his actual words.  It is his responsibility to quit doing that, and to quit giving fodder to his enemies.  Had he said "our troops keep winning wars, but our politicians keep losing them", it would have been a home run.  But that's not what he said, so he's getting blasted.

We didn't lose the Gulf War.  There's really no way around that one.