Author Topic: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!  (Read 3112 times)

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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2016, 03:31:36 pm »
Or a nuisance   :smokin:
You wouldn't want you to get bored now would you? :laugh:
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2016, 06:54:47 pm »
So, if having Morals and Principles makes me a narcissist, fine, I am a narcissist.

I am getting used to the name calling from the Trump crowd.

It is not the worst thing I've been called.

Not giving up my Morals and Principles, just because we have 2 candidates running for POTUS that have none.

Not.
going.
to.
happen.

All of us here have morals and principles...that's the point. What makes you a narcissist is being a narcissist...assuming you have principles while others who disagree with you do not...or that your principles are somehow superior, more objectively true, and/or are more important than others principles.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2016, 06:59:58 pm »
I suspect that a large number of the most vocal Militants in the Trump movement are simply scared and frightened having hitched all their hopes and faith and dreams upon an ego-driven showman they want as their king.  They're lashing out because they are consumed with fear that if Trump doesn't "win", that they are at the mercy of Hildabeast and think they have no recourse to protect themselves.  They've convinced themselves a single man given the office of President, acting as a dictator will save the nation and preserve them.

We ARE all at the mercy of Hillary if she wins...including yourself...and every conservative should fear that outcome because it would devastate the nation. Nobody on the Trump side wants a king, and asserting such demonstrates an utter lack of perception on your part. Just a weak attempt at creating imaginary motives for those who disagree with you...your regular tactic, I might add. As for what we've convinced ourselves of...we have convinced ourselves that putting Mr. Trump in the White House detours the nation from a socialist agenda to one of true growth, lower taxes and increased personal freedom. These are not grandiose goals, just wise goals that Mr. Trump is devoting his campaign...and guiding the GOP...towards.
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Offline DB

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2016, 07:05:34 pm »
All of us here have morals and principles...that's the point. What makes you a narcissist is being a narcissist...assuming you have principles while others who disagree with you do not...or that your principles are somehow superior, more objectively true, and/or are more important than others principles.

You sound like the kind that says all cultures are equal and they can't be judged on their merits. There is actual truth. Truth is not on your side. Call those who stand with truth narcissist if you must, but it is what it is. And that makes you what you are too.

Offline Dexter

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2016, 07:10:09 pm »
Just keep being offensive and insulting, Trump Supporters. I'm sure us folks on the #NeverTrump side will come around eventually.  **nononono*

The never Trump people have been offensive and insulting too.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2016, 07:10:17 pm »
All of us here have morals and principles...that's the point. What makes you a narcissist is being a narcissist...assuming you have principles while others who disagree with you do not...or that your principles are somehow superior, more objectively true, and/or are more important than others principles.

All I can say is a repeat of this:

"Not giving up my Morals and Principles, just because we have 2 candidates running for POTUS that have none."

I do except all human beings, myself included, to be flawed.

The rush for power, win at all cost attitude, that both candidates exhibit is not a good sign for me.

They serve us, and for a limited time only, not the other way around.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 07:10:44 pm by GrouchoTex »

Offline driftdiver

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2016, 07:20:38 pm »
You sound like the kind that says all cultures are equal and they can't be judged on their merits. There is actual truth. Truth is not on your side. Call those who stand with truth narcissist if you must, but it is what it is. And that makes you what you are too.

@DB You forgot to capitalize the T in Truth.  Ya know the kind where only Trump supporters get to define what it is.

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Offline Victoria33

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2016, 07:22:36 pm »
There is a horrible human being, trashier than a Kardashian, behind this movement... his name is Donald Trump!

"We might call Will's class the Moral Narcissist Bourgeoisie (MNB) that resides so comfortably in Washington, irrespective of political party, dining at the best restaurants and enjoying the cultural benefits of the city..."

I have never eaten in any restaurant in Washington but I believe Trump has a mental disorder based on his early behavior right through his behavior to this day - I will not vote for a mentally deficient man to be Commander In Chief of these United States.  This article is hog wash.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2016, 07:49:31 pm »
It seems the Trump era redefinition of "narcissist" is someone who will not support that amoral sleaze on the basis of common decency.  Fine with me...call me whatever you want.  I'll still never support him.  I would, however, like to point out the comical irony of Trump supporters accusing others of narcissism.

Yesterday I had the lovely experience of being totally sedated - I did not think of Trump at all during that total zap out of my brain.  When I woke up, I was missing two teeth.  Since they were hurting before I was zapped, I am much better off without them.  Unfortunately, Trump is still here.   

Offline INVAR

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2016, 08:00:52 pm »
We ARE all at the mercy of Hillary if she wins...including yourself...and every conservative should fear that outcome because it would devastate the nation.

That is where you are wrong and explains the great divide between a subjugated mindset tied to party and a mindset of liberty.   Sadly, a good chunk of the vocal Trump Militant have openly discarded and jeered at a liberty mindset, thinking a man is what guarantees such happiness.   

Contrary to what you assume, I will not be at any mercy of Hildabeast anymore than I am Obama.  I ignore his dictates.  I hold him in contempt and pay no regard to his tyranny.  I believe in disobeying tyrants to the fullest extent of my being, because doing so is obedience to God.  My liberty and freedom does not exist at his leave or Hillary's when she assumes the throne.  And should she assume the throne, She will become the most ignored and irrelevant monarch in history.   She may attempt to subjugate us by use of power and force - but that is what all tyrants do, and in such circumstances we will have to do what is necessary for liberty to survive.

Or we die trying.

I frankly do not care which tyrant assumes power.  I will have no hand in supporting either one of them, and if we must have an enemy at the head of state, I prefer it be one in whom we clearly can oppose and have absolutely no responsibility for.

Nobody on the Trump side wants a king, and asserting such demonstrates an utter lack of perception on your part.

I've read it from the Trump militant myself.  All over the net, especially on social media groups where the rabid militant are most vocal.  They DO want a king.  A dictator, or as one of your own on this board declared, HIS LUCIFER.    Plenty of your vocal compatriots want what you deny they say they want.  Many of them have stated that the Constitution itself is irrelevant and that Trump needs to do what must be done "for freedom".  I am lacking absolutely no misperception of those desires stated by the very mob that want him for their leader.

Just a weak attempt at creating imaginary motives for those who disagree with you...your regular tactic, I might add.

Imaginary?  You just illustrated it!   I said you are motivated by fear and you just said above that every Conservative should fear Hillary.   I denounce such fear.  I hold her in contempt as I do Trump given his behaviors and statements attacking Conservatives even still to this very day.   However, unlike your compatriots who have insisted that not voting for Trump is treason, I'm not calling you are a traitor by voting for Trump.  Misguided perhaps - but that's it.  You have the right to vote for whomever your conscience says you should select for your representative.  We do not receive however, the same courtesy the Trump Militant offer those of us who are not going to cast a vote for him in November.

As for what we've convinced ourselves of...we have convinced ourselves that putting Mr. Trump in the White House detours the nation from a socialist agenda to one of true growth, lower taxes and increased personal freedom. These are not grandiose goals, just wise goals that Mr. Trump is devoting his campaign...and guiding the GOP...towards.

You are free to believe in those delusions, having hoisted them upon a single man to be able to perform when his own record less than 3 years ago demonstrates he supports the very Socialist agenda you think he is going to detour the nation from while the party he is running under is abandoning him in droves over his constant embarrassing tweets and statements.  He will in no wise be able to guide the GOP into anything except self destruction and running as fast as they can from him.

The only way your convinced fantasy has any chance at actually happening is if Trump rules with his pen and phone - which some of your compatriots have gleefully stated they want him to do.

Which would make your anointed every bit the enemy to the Constitution that Obama and Hillary have made of themselves.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online roamer_1

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2016, 08:04:02 pm »
All of us here have morals and principles...that's the point. What makes you a narcissist is being a narcissist...assuming you have principles while others who disagree with you do not...or that your principles are somehow superior, more objectively true, and/or are more important than others principles.

Literally, by the very definition, principles are first things - immovable things. Principle things cannot be compromised, else they are not principles.

Since we are speaking of a specific set of principles - The Principles of Conservatism, or arguably the principles of a subset of Conservatism (SOCON, DEFCON, FICON), I would submit that resolution can be obtained via that criteria.

That one may or may not be principled outside of that criteria is of little interest to me, nor does it bear upon this conversation - Because it is Conservatism that is on point.

There is *NO* defense of Trump within the principles of Conservatism. None.
There is no factional principle that he defends, nor does he operate within it's philosophical boundaries. In fact, and historically, he is, and has been in direct opposition to most of those principles.

That is why his defenders fail to defend him on those principle, immovable things - reduced (yet again, mind you) to the 'lesser evil' argument, which is inevitably their last defense.

If it were otherwise, he would be defensible within the criteria, and believe me, there would be no argument, and you would have our support.

Thus, while I do not accuse anyone of being without principles, standards, or mores, since Trump is indefensible by way of Conservative principles in any way, it seems to me that his supporters' criteria is not Conservatism, or alternatively, that those supporters find that the principles of Conservatism can be compromised - which would make them less than principled, according to Conservatism, by the very definition.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2016, 08:06:57 pm »
Yesterday I had the lovely experience of being totally sedated - I did not think of Trump at all during that total zap out of my brain.  When I woke up, I was missing two teeth.  Since they were hurting before I was zapped, I am much better off without them.  Unfortunately, Trump is still here.   
I had a similar experience, (one tooth), but the sheer bliss of not having that split tooth causing pain was a wonderful experience. Now that it fades into normalcy, politics is more painful to behold.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2016, 08:11:40 pm »
Yesterday I had the lovely experience of being totally sedated - [...] total zap out of my brain.  When I woke up, I was missing two teeth.

Ahh. Tequila. Been there, done that.  :tongue2:

Offline al_c

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2016, 08:23:35 pm »
If the founding fathers had supported the lesser of two evils we would still be petitioning parliament for our freedom.

The founding fathers didn’t have career politicians running for office.
al_c

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2016, 08:25:40 pm »
All of us here have morals and principles...that's the point. What makes you a narcissist is being a narcissist...assuming you have principles while others who disagree with you do not...or that your principles are somehow superior, more objectively true, and/or are more important than others principles.
Pot meet Kettle. The whole article is an attempt to show why #Never Trump folks have inferroir morals due to their supposed narcissist behavior.

This is an issue of conscience and I wouldn't ask anyone on either side to violate their conscience in this matter. No movement will get far with reluctant brow beaten supporters as its prime mover.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2016, 08:29:48 pm »
We ARE all at the mercy of Hillary if she wins...including yourself...and every conservative should fear that outcome because it would devastate the nation. Nobody on the Trump side wants a king, and asserting such demonstrates an utter lack of perception on your part. Just a weak attempt at creating imaginary motives for those who disagree with you...your regular tactic, I might add. As for what we've convinced ourselves of...we have convinced ourselves that putting Mr. Trump in the White House detours the nation from a socialist agenda to one of true growth, lower taxes and increased personal freedom. These are not grandiose goals, just wise goals that Mr. Trump is devoting his campaign...and guiding the GOP...towards.
Ask @Mechanios he still visits FR. I'm sure he's seen those that want Trump to take his royal scepter in hand to make America Great again.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2016, 08:48:14 pm »
The never Trump people have been offensive and insulting too.

They are wrong when they do it too.

Happy now?
Let it burn.

Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2016, 08:49:36 pm »
We ARE all at the mercy of Hillary if she wins...including yourself...and every conservative should fear that outcome because it would devastate the nation. Nobody on the Trump side wants a king, and asserting such demonstrates an utter lack of perception on your part. Just a weak attempt at creating imaginary motives for those who disagree with you...your regular tactic, I might add. As for what we've convinced ourselves of...we have convinced ourselves that putting Mr. Trump in the White House detours the nation from a socialist agenda to one of true growth, lower taxes and increased personal freedom. These are not grandiose goals, just wise goals that Mr. Trump is devoting his campaign...and guiding the GOP...towards.

Based on what, exactly?
Let it burn.

Offline INVAR

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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2016, 09:37:15 pm »
After Trump gets curb-stomped in November, assuming he doesn't drop out in late October claiming to be "bored and-or mistreated by the biased media" or something, I can see him taking his traveling circus on a profitable tent revival campaign to soothe his over-sized ego.

Offline OldSaltUSN

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2016, 10:50:45 pm »
The never Trump people have been offensive and insulting too.

The rallying cry of every progressive with hand caught in cookie jar:

"WELL, THEY DO IT TOO, AND MUCH WORSERRRR!!"

 :facepalm:

Difference between Trumpkins and #NeverTrump is that the Trumpkins consider any contrary logic to the great DONALD to be a serious, offensive, insulting personal attack, while their endless stream of pejoratives and ad hominem's are just "truth from god!".  It's little wonder that Trumpkins have such a poor record of convincing thoughtful, logical thinking conservatives to join the Trump train.

Offline OldSaltUSN

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Re: At last, we have found what drives the NeverTrump movement!
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2016, 10:56:26 pm »
After Trump gets curb-stomped in November, assuming he doesn't drop out in late October claiming to be "bored and-or mistreated by the biased media" or something, I can see him taking his traveling circus on a profitable tent revival campaign to soothe his over-sized ego.

After BREXIT, both the U.N. and E.U. need Donald Trump.   He'd simply be UUGggg there.   He's certainly fit into the graft and corruption culture of European and 3rd world diplomats.

Trump could decline the U.S. Presidency for more furtile grounds.

Trump could dump Trump.  Let Trump be Trump!!

(Or, was that let Trump dump the chumps ....)