Brexit Vote Live Thread

[truth_seeker]

The US does just fine without any economic union. Getting rid of NAFTA wouldn't hurt either. The UK will not collapse. The fear mongering is complete nonsense.

In the most simple of terms, the EU is a huge Tax. It takes, not makes.

Think of the tens of thousands of jobs, involved with the EU. Bureaucrats, news reporters, etc.

And guess what. They have the powers of both government and media at their ready. To squeal and whine about how awful it will be, without them.

But in truth they make nothing. They are a net drain, on the true makers.

Think Harrison's song "Taxman"   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEVjyqxIrp4

[Bigun]

In the most simple of terms, the EU is a huge Tax. It takes, not makes.

Think of the tens of thousands of jobs, involved with the EU. Bureaucrats, news reporters, etc.

And guess what. They have the powers of both government and media at their ready. To squeal and whine about how awful it will be, without them.

But in truth they make nothing. They are a net drain, on the true makers.

Think Harrison's song "Taxman"   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEVjyqxIrp4

Excellent post!  Couldn't agree more! 

[truth_seeker]

Here's the Head of the Uk Liberal Demorats Response.....LOLOLOL

I heard Tim Farron last night on the telly, and he sounded like our typical American government-media hack, know-it-all, talking down and about the unwashed little folks.

He was nearly in tears, that the masses were such asses, and didn't heed their good and all-knowing leadership.

[truth_seeker]

[geronl]

Ted Cruz:

The British people have spoken clearly: They choose to leave the European Union.

The results of the ‪#‎Brexit‬ referendum should serve as a wake-up call for internationalist bureaucrats from Brussels to Washington, D.C. that some free nations still wish to preserve their national sovereignty.

The British people have indicated that they will no longer outsource their future to the EU, and prefer to chart their own path forward. The United States can learn from the referendum and attend to the issues of security, immigration and economic autonomy that drove this historic vote.

In addition, we should treat the #Brexit as an opportunity to forge a closer partnership with our historic friend and ally, including immediately starting negotiations for a targeted US-UK free trade agreement.

[geronl]

He lived most of his life in a state where being a communist was basically required to get anywhere.

Understand Russia and Putin have their issues, but invading hordes of third world poor people is a far greater threat to the US than Russia ever was.

Russia is still a big threat to the world. Just because there is another threat doesn't change that.

[geronl]

Putins a Nationalist, yes,  but has no designs to make Russia the USSR

Like the man or not his people love the guy......right or wrong the man leads his country and they know it.

Invading and overtly threatening neighboring countries sounds a lot like the USSR of old.

The people have no choice, Putin controls 99% of the media and the rest are censored.

[txradioguy]

He already did say he supported Brexit.  "Taking their country back"

Link?

And assuming your assertion is true..there is a difference between supporting the vote and having and allies back after the decision has been made...expecially when the current president has told England they'll have to go to the back of the bus.

Saying that won't happen if he's President sends a clear positive signal to a long time ally and sounds...well...Presidential.

Not to mention it would be some positive PR after all the crap the UK media is giving him right now.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Russia is still a big threat to the world. Just because there is another threat doesn't change that.

From what I've heard they're more paranoid than anything else. You see Russians invading the country, watering down the "native" vote, raping our women, flooding our social programs? I don't. You tell me who is more of a threat.

[mountaineer]

Economists timeline of what might happen from here on for the Uk:

Here's how a travel site analyzes the vote and its implications for tourism:

What Does Brexit Mean for Travel?
The shorter- and longer-term affects of Britain’s departure from the EU
Matt Villano
6.24.2016
AFAR


By now you undoubtedly have read that Britons voted Thursday for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union after 43 years.

To say “Brexit” (that’s what the Brits called it) came as a shock would be the understatement of the century; most pre-election polls indicated Brits would vote to stay, but an overwhelming percentage of registered voters turned out—72 percent in all—and the secessionists won.

Within hours, the vote had triggered panic and history-shaking response.

First, the British pound tanked, dropping 11 percent to lower than US$1.30 and marking the lowest value of the local currency since 1985. Experts predicted global markets would respond Friday in similarly horrific fashion, kicking off what many expect will be the most serious financial crisis since the U.S. housing meltdown back in 2008. Case in point: By midnight Thursday in California, the Nikkei—Tokyo’s stock exchange—had fallen 1,200 points, or 8 percent. U.S. markets also reacted with concern; the Dow dropped 500 points, about 3 percent, in midday trading.

 Second, like dominoes falling in succession, other nations reacted to the vote by calling for their own referenda. Within hours of the projected results, leaders in France and The Netherlands had championed similar plebiscites regarding their nations’ respective EU memberships. (On the flipside, Scotland, which narrowly voted against secession from the United Kingdom in 2014, expressed interest in having a second vote to leave the U.K. and join the EU.)

Next, British Prime Minister David Cameron announced his intention to resign.

To put things into perspective, it could take years for Britain to negotiate an exit from the EU; a Brexit vote is not legally binding, and there are a few ways it could theoretically be blocked or overturned. Still, it’s certain that the vote will continue to change life as everyone knows it in the U.K., and it’s likely some of those changes will impact travel to and from Great Britain.

Perhaps the most obvious impact of Brexit on travel is the exchange rate—until the markets stabilize, traveling to and in the United Kingdom will be more affordable for U.S. citizens over the next few weeks than at any time in the last 30 years. Some domestic influencers, such as The Points Guy, made light of the situation on Twitter, noting that “@British_Airways award ticket fees just got a little more bearable for us Americans.”  Time to take that trip to London.

Long-term effects could be more dramatic; in a report this April, The Economist predicted that exiting the EU could cause the British economy to be between 3.8 and 7.5 percent smaller by 2030.

But more important—and more insidious, really—are the interconnected (and admittedly longer-term) issues of passports and immigration.

One of the best things about the EU was the principle of free movement among EU countries. This applied both to tourists and to citizens of other EU nations. Now, however, with Britain pulling out, there’s no telling what this might mean for movement between the U.K. and other EU nations. For travelers, this could mean tighter restrictions, more visas, and the increased planning that comes in dealing with both.

For more permanent visitors, the situation is direr. An article from Vox.com notes that, at a minimum, Brexit could mean that people moving to or from Britain would need to worry about passports and residency rules. It goes on to say that some British immigrants may lose their rights to continue living and working in the U.K. and be deported—a fact that also could impact the travel industry because many workers in this industry are foreign nationals. It’s worth noting here that resentment of EU immigrants, especially from economically struggling countries such as Poland and Lithuania, was a key factor driving support for Brexit.

This rundown could continue, but like many news outlets around the world, AFAR doesn’t have many definitive answers this soon after the vote. We do know the vote itself was historic in every sense of the word, and we hope the Britain we know and love survives this crisis relatively unscathed.

[geronl]

From what I've heard they're more paranoid than anything else. You see Russians invading the country, watering down the "native" vote, raping our women, flooding our social programs? I don't. You tell me who is more of a threat.

They are invading neighboring countries, flying bombers over them, openly threatening them

[geronl]

Saying that won't happen if he's President sends a clear positive signal to a long time ally and sounds...well...Presidential.

http://mashable.com/2016/06/24/trump-tweet-brexit/#pWmQ._vaCsqE


"Just landed in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. Took their country back, just like we will take America back. No Games!"

Of course Scotland voted to stay in the EU. lol.

Check out the responses to Trump at the link.

[Henry Noel]

http://mashable.com/2016/06/24/trump-tweet-brexit/#pWmQ._vaCsqE


"Just landed in Scotland. Place is going wild over the vote. Took their country back, just like we will take America back. No Games!"

Of course Scotland voted to stay in the EU. lol.

Check out the responses to Trump at the link.

That's hilarious!

[geronl]

That's hilarious!

Trumpers will now try to defy all history and say Scotland is not a country, which would be news to them.

[geronl]

Boo-boo McFluffy Pants becomes new Prime Minister!

[ABX]

Chatting online with some friends in the UK this morning (afternoon for them), they have a very different take than the media is reporting. Unlike what the media keeps telling everyone, they didn't vote due to immigration, refugees, or anything like that- those are just talking points politicians and the media use to try to divide people and manipulate emotions. They voted to simply have governance as local as possible. They saw leaders making rules in Brussels that impacted them in Wales and they had no say in the matter. Even down to the dumb things like road laws that harmed country roads to farming requirements. When you see little farms and shops in Matlock closed down or a port in Caernarfon put on stand-by because someone in Brussels decided there had to be new H&S paperwork that no one knew how to complete, that's what people reacted to. They wanted to be led locally by local representatives. Most have little love for Nigel Farage and the UKIP just as they have little love for David Cameron. ‪  Most of them didn't even see any of the refugees outside the news. The places where the refugees had the biggest impact, like London, voted to stay, so that talking point from the media isn't all it is made to appear.

[Idiot]

Chatting online with some friends in the UK this morning (afternoon for them), they have a very different take than the media is reporting. Unlike what the media keeps telling everyone, they didn't vote due to immigration, refugees, or anything like that- those are just talking points politicians and the media use to try to divide people and manipulate emotions. They voted to simply have governance as local as possible. They saw leaders making rules in Brussels that impacted them in Wales and they had no say in the matter. Even down to the dumb things like road laws that harmed country roads to farming requirements. When you see little farms and shops in Matlock closed down or a port in Caernarfon put on stand-by because someone in Brussels decided there had to be new H&S paperwork that no one knew how to complete, that's what people reacted to. They wanted to be led locally by local representatives. Most have little love for Nigel Farage and the UKIP just as they have little love for David Cameron. ‪  Most of them didn't even see any of the refugees outside the news. The places where the refugees had the biggest impact, like London, voted to stay, so that talking point from the media isn't all it is made to appear.

Since London voted to stay and it has the largest population of immigrants....doesn't that just make the case.  Immigrants want more immigrants and the freebees that come with it.....so they want their families, friends....etc. to join them.  Makes perfect sense that London would vote that way.

The long time British citizens don't seem to want more immigrants...can't blame them....they are on a friggen island with limited space.  At least their immigrants came legally unlike here...........

[EC]

Since London voted to stay and it has the largest population of immigrants....doesn't that just make the case.  Immigrants want more immigrants and the freebees that come with it.....so they want their families, friends....etc. to join them.  Makes perfect sense that London would vote that way.

The long time British citizens don't seem to want more immigrants...can't blame them....they are on a friggen island with limited space.  At least their immigrants came legally unlike here...........

You are wrong.

Long time British citizens, especially the working class, don't mind immigrants. It's something we've had practice with since the early days of the Empire. They don't like COMPETITION. Free movement within the EU has resulted in a mass of Eastern Europeans arriving in the UK. They work - bloody hard. And they undercut the local builders and chippies and brickies in price,with a better work ethic.

[WAC]

You are wrong.

Long time British citizens, especially the working class, don't mind immigrants. It's something we've had practice with since the early days of the Empire. They don't like COMPETITION. Free movement within the EU has resulted in a mass of Eastern Europeans arriving in the UK. They work - bloody hard. And they undercut the local builders and chippies and brickies in price,with a better work ethic.

Let me share I was listening to the recent International Economic Summit where all the heavy hitters in Business attend. It was a packed house. (I like to know what they're saying to each other so I tend to listen to this stuff.)

At any rate...THEY referred to employees as 'Human Commodity' ..and complaints that certain countries get "more" than others, as if people are being traded among them..... I have said before that how International Leaders, both in Business and Politics, look at the world is not the same as the average citizen does, they are on an entirely different plateau  conducting business in another sphere of understanding altogether than than those who are not in that "league".....and there's thousands of them who think like that. The people are the "product" that gets the where they want to be....or in the way of what their agenda is.

[WAC]

Chatting online with some friends in the UK this morning (afternoon for them), they have a very different take than the media is reporting. Unlike what the media keeps telling everyone, they didn't vote due to immigration, refugees, or anything like that- those are just talking points politicians and the media use to try to divide people and manipulate emotions. They voted to simply have governance as local as possible. They saw leaders making rules in Brussels that impacted them in Wales and they had no say in the matter. ....... They wanted to be led locally by local representatives. ....... The places where the refugees had the biggest impact, like London, voted to stay, so that talking point from the media isn't all it is made to appear.

That's exactly what I'm hearing from those I know.......the Politicians are all spinning plates now trying to steady the ship , if they can keep the puplics eyes on migration, and all that's associated with it, then they are free to do their deals and continue with their agenda's behind that issue...........and they will continue to try and make that the issue when it's all the other issues in fact.

[HonestJohn]

The US does just fine without any economic union. Getting rid of NAFTA wouldn't hurt either. The UK will not collapse. The fear mongering is complete nonsense.

The United States *IS* a giant political and economic union of 50 differing states.

[txradioguy]

So if it's such a disastrous thing to not be in the EU...why haven't Iceland,  Switzerland, Norway AND Turkey self destructed?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So if it's such a disastrous thing to not be in the EU...why haven't Iceland,  Switzerland, Norway AND Turkey self destructed?

 

[HonestJohn]

So if it's such a disastrous thing to not be in the EU...why haven't Iceland,  Switzerland, Norway AND Turkey self destructed?

That's dumb logic.

An economic union provides a higher level of prosperity.  It doesn't mean that without it, a country can survive or even thrive.  But when a nation in such a union pulls out, they lose the benefits, making their situation worse.

[HonestJohn]

They are funding the benefits for others, not so much gaining it themselves.  That's the problem.   Anytime the argument is that one entity will gain more by being part of a larger group than by not being, someone must lose.   If Britain gained benefits they cannot gain without the EU, then who paid for them?  And at what cost in lost control over their own lives?

The bottom line is, they want say over their own lives.  They can still make trade agreements without bowing to the powerbrokers of the EU.  Centralized power is rarely better because human nature is bent toward corruption.  This was a smart move in the long run.  Besides, money is not everything.  What price do you place on freedom?  So they pay a short term monetary price for this long term gain.  Smart move I say.   They can now make new agreements on their own terms.

Big government and bigger bureaucracy is never the answer.

They did fund some of the EU...

...and their businesses and financial institutions profited greatly from being able to trade freely with over 300 million customers.  Furthermore, they had the added advantage of being a very good 'stepping stone' into the EU for the english speaking world (ie: US/Australia/Canada/New Zealand).

Now, they lose all that.  And while they are near to Europe, there is no more reason for english-speaking world to set their businesses up in England so to enter the EU market.

If Scotland breaks with England and stays in the EU... they will become that stepping-stone into Europe.  Reaping all the benefits the English tossed aside.