Trump just caved on gun control

[NavyCanDo]

Oh please stop lying #neverTrump. claiming incorrectly he said JUST watch lists. The original quote also included "known enemy of State" a legal term meaning accessory before the fact. There is enough stuff to have fun attacking Trump with without acting like democrats and being dishonest about what he said.

I'm not comfortable at all with the Government defining who the "enemy of the State" is or what it means.  The last time they tried that they FAILED miserably. You do remember Executive Order 9066 that stripped the constitutions rights away from tens of thousands of good loyal Americans in 1942?      I will not stand by and allow that to happen again.   

[bob434]

Thank you sir.  I have been duly chastised.   

I didn't mean it to sound like chastisement- as i know many are not aware of how our founders felt on the issue- I wasn't fully aware until recently myself when someone else brought up some quotes and I went searching for them-

[bob434]

The inmates at the FR asylum are pinging over this one...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3440460/posts

Lol- one of the trumpanzees said something like 'Hell no, don't go wobbly on us Trump" Apparently not realizing just how wobbly trump has always been

[bob434]

...and Harley Lady still thinks she is going to have Trump's next baby too.

She and others liek er- like napscoordinator, and other rabid supporters was oen reason i left- you can't post anything that isn't a glowing endorsement odf trump there without having your rear end handed to you on a silbe3r platter- Some of the nastiest vilest crap I've seen on the net came out of FR recently- Sadly the site owner in chief sanctioned it too-

[Idiot]

I didn't mean it to sound like chastisement- as i know many are not aware of how our founders felt on the issue- I wasn't fully aware until recently myself when someone else brought up some quotes and I went searching for them-

I just appreciate the helpful information.  It's nice to have some historical background on this issue.  I wasn't aware of the info you posted.

[DCPatriot]

I just appreciate the helpful information.  It's nice to have some historical background on this issue.  I wasn't aware of the info you posted.

Me neither, @mrpotatohead

[thatcher]

HMMM. Trump says he is meeting with NRA over the democrats' proposals and this is negative?

Somehow, I don't think Cruz would have to meet with the NRA to discuss democrats' proposals or decide what's constitutional.  He also wouldn't have to get coached on NRA talking points to discuss the issue in a coherent way in front of the media. 

[oldmomster]

Somehow, I don't think Cruz would have to meet with the NRA to discuss democrats' proposals or decide what's constitutional.  He also wouldn't have to get coached on NRA talking points to discuss the issue in a coherent way in front of the media.

Believe this may be what he is discussing with them.....control that has gained some support as it involves the courts also.  Terrorists should just be deported IMO.

'....rival plan by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, that would let the government delay firearms sales to suspected terrorists for up to 72 hours. Under that proposal, the transaction could be halted permanently if federal officials could persuade a judge to do so during that waiting period.

The NRA has backed Cornyn's plan. Some Democrats and gun-control advocates have criticized it for not going far enough.'

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-to-discuss-terrorism-watch-list-no-fly-ban-8199467.php

[SZonian]

excerpt:  'plan by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, that would let the government delay firearms sales to suspected terrorists for up to 72 hours. Under that proposal, the transaction could be halted permanently if federal officials could persuade a judge to do so during that waiting period.

The NRA has backed Cornyn's plan.'

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Trump-to-discuss-terrorism-watch-list-no-fly-ban-8199467.php

Personally I like the idea of DEPORTING anyone on that 'terror watch list'......

@oldmomster

When Janet Napolitano was DHS Secretary, she put US veterans in the "watch list" group...among others considered potential terrorists.

[SuperSyn]

So Mr. Art of the Deal Fight for Us caves to the left, and is now attempting to drag the NRA down with him. Not usually a conspiracy theorist, but it looks awfully suspicious that he is going to "talk" with the NRA, the lefts biggest bugbear on guns.

Cornyn is a disgrace, he can't wait to take McConnell's role as RINO in Chief.

[SZonian]

Due process????  In this current post-Constitutional government????

No list is going to stop Jihadists from getting weapons to kill us.

Lists are only going to stop law abiding American citizens from being able to buy, keep and bear arms.

PERIOD.

Screw new lists.  Screw new "mechanisms".

If we were serious about liberty - we would be demanding all gun restrictions be lifted and advocate the American people arm themselves up, because it is clear that we are on our own when it comes to self defense.

@INVAR

 

[Luis Gonzalez]

Study Says White Extremists Have Killed More Americans in the U.S. Than Jihadists Since 9/11
Joanna Plucinska @joannaplucinska June 24, 2015

From Newsweek.

We ARE the enemies of the State, according to the left.

http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Not if due process is employed.   It's not impossible,  the mechanisms exist.   But it is madness to refuse to consider limiting the ability of known terrorist sympathizers to get guns.

Due process = innocent until proven guilty by a jury of peers. Nothing less should be accepted in curtailing God given rights.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

At the time of writing, the founders were smart enough to realize that arms were3 evolving and would continue to evolve- when they wrote "right to bear arms"- that is precisely what they meant- and the reason they meant it was so that civilians would be protected against a government that decided to go rogue/totalitarian on them- they knew that such a government would be heavily armed, well staffed, and able to excert tremendous pressure on society IF the society was not equally as armed and able to defend themselves against such a tyrannical government-

The whole purpose for us excapign england and elsewhere to come here was to get out from under the oppression of government- and the only way to do that was to arm the citizens

I hope you'll take hte time to read through the following quotes by the founding fathers to get a sense of just how seriously they took the issue of "right to bear arms".

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

There are many many more such statements- and they show a clear intent to arm citizens to the hilt in order to protect us agaisnt a rogue oppression by an out of control government IF the need should arise

Thanks for the quotes. Words to live by.

[aligncare]

Everything is negotiable for Trump. The concept of absolute is not in his worldview.

Sale of machine guns have been illegal since the 1930s. Was that a cave to anti gunners? Was it an affront to the second amendment for congress to make a fully automatic weapon illegal for sale to the public?

[INVAR]

Sale of machine guns have been illegal since the 1930s. Was that a cave to anti gunners? Was it an affront to the second amendment for congress to make a fully automatic weapon illegal for sale to the public?

YES.

We believe 'shall not be infringed' means what it says when it comes to keeping and bearing arms for the security of a free state.

[don-o]

Sale of machine guns have been illegal since the 1930s. Was that a cave to anti gunners? Was it an affront to the second amendment for congress to make a fully automatic weapon illegal for sale to the public?

Apples and hand grenades. Law abiding citizens had no need or desire to posses machine guns.

[sitetest]

The Constitution Party's position on gun control:


http://www.constitutionparty.com/our-principles/platform-and-resolutions/

Great post, thanks.

[aligncare]

As a supporter of the Second Amendment, I'm actually OK with having to repeatedly pull the trigger. I suspect LEOs are okay about that too, as they are likely never to run into a fully automatic weapon in the odd Saturday night street crime.

[libertybele]

As a supporter of the Second Amendment, I'm actually OK with having to repeatedly pull the trigger. I suspect LEOs are okay about that too, as they are likely never to run into a fully automatic weapon in the odd Saturday night street crime.

As a Second Amendment supporter, I have ZERO tolerance for gun control, ZERO!

[HonestJohn]

How often does the Fisa court say no?

Aaaaarrrrgggghhh!!!

 :nometalk:

[Mechanicos]

I'm not comfortable at all with the Government defining who the "enemy of the State" is or what it means.  The last time they tried that they FAILED miserably. You do remember Executive Order 9066 that stripped the constitutions rights away from tens of thousands of good loyal Americans in 1942?      I will not stand by and allow that to happen again.

We agree, I am very pro second, literally more then Cruz was on Heller. My issue was the misrepresenting what Trump said by omission. If they are a formally determined enemy of state its a legal process and they either should be locked up or should be deported. There are laws that automatically strip rights of some groups. such as 50 USC § 842: Proscription of Communist Party, its successors, and subsidiary organizations. Which by the way, technically is in effect because of the left wing violence.

[HonestJohn]

The right to bear arms exists despite your ignorance of its meaning.  A meaning which is well documented and defined   There is a significant difference between a hellfire missile and an "assault" weapon.  The purpose of the Second Amendment is to limit the government from allowing citizens to bear arms to defend against an overreaching government.  Its not for hunting or target shooting.

An AR-15 is actually an ideal weapon for home defense.  They are easy to use, dependable and just powerful enough to stop an attacker.   Numerous tests have show the 5.56 round is very appropriate for use inside a dwelling.  They have stopping power but less over penetration than even a 9mm, 45ACP or even a shotgun with 00.

The ar-15 round tends to break up after going through sheetrock.   Tests I've seen found the ar-15 round wouldn't go thru 3 layers of sheetrock in simulated walls.    All the other calibers went through at least 4 layers.

I would think a shotgun.

Short-range and wide-angle.  That way the projectiles don't exit the home and potentially end up in a bystander... and there is no real need to aim if something happens at night, with the lights off.  Point vaguely in the right direction and boom, problem solved.

It's why the Navy uses them if hostile intruders come aboard a ship.

[NavyCanDo]

Sale of machine guns have been illegal since the 1930s. Was that a cave to anti gunners? Was it an affront to the second amendment for congress to make a fully automatic weapon illegal for sale to the public?

You are aware that you can get a special class license for fully automatic? Though they are far more difficult to get, there are enough owners that they hold large gatherings and compitions.

[libertybele]

In the past couple of days Trump has really sunk his ship. It's pretty much underwater now and I don't think it has any chance of resurfacing.

#NeverTrump