Author Topic: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects  (Read 6316 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2016, 03:43:35 am »
Sooo....
He's already for violating the first amendment.
And now the second amendment and due process.

What say you, Trumpsters?  Still hope he's good for his promises? Still calling him conservative?

Why invite the Translators For Trump to do what they do on every thread when their boy demonstrates he's more dangerous and unstable than Hillary?

We're gonna hear about how this is exactly what Reagan would have done, why it is necessary and not at all a violation of anything and that if you oppose his statement, you are obviously a supporter of Islamic terrorists.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2016, 03:45:44 am »
Enemy of State is not Terrorist suspect, Its a legal term for Traitor. Its a legal determination. No suspect no nothing you misrepresented in your posts and arguments. Its a finding of fact.

I think @Mechanicos has me on ignore, but I will put this out for everyone else in response to his statement: why say it at all then.  The described person, having been found guilty, would have been removed of their rights. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 03:47:19 am by RoosGirl »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2016, 03:46:39 am »
I'm trying to remember...which candidate was it that received the NRA's full endorsement?

Nobody in their right mind thinks an NRA endorsement means anything at all. GOA, maybe, but NRA have been big "R" shills for a loooong time. If they had any honor at all, they would retract their endorsement for this statement, or at least, call him on the carpet.

Quote
I suppose they're all morons and dupes though, or just unprincipled like the rest of us Trump supporters. If only we was as smrt as u peeples.

yeah... that whole 'shoe fits' thing...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 03:47:09 am by roamer_1 »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2016, 03:48:43 am »
Hey isn't that the term you want applied to Never Trump people? Traitors? So you are saying that Never Trump should be stripped of their rights too.

I don't think you ever read the Constitution and BOR much less believe in them.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2016, 03:50:22 am »
Why invite the Translators For Trump to do what they do on every thread when their boy demonstrates he's more dangerous and unstable than Hillary?

We're gonna hear about how this is exactly what Reagan would have done, why it is necessary and not at all a violation of anything and that if you oppose his statement, you are obviously a supporter of Islamic terrorists.

... and in that, enemy of the state, ergo, subject to gun confiscation...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 03:50:48 am by roamer_1 »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2016, 04:04:00 am »
I think @Mechanicos has me on ignore, but I will put this out for everyone else in response to his statement: why say it at all then.  The described person, having been found guilty, would have been removed of their rights.
I can't believe you want to give assault weapons to enemy combatants in GITMO. :laugh:

Just in case Mechanicos does have you on ignore, I'll post for him...

    :bsflag: :spam2:

there you go.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2016, 04:14:21 am »
Sooo....
He's already for violating the first amendment.
And now the second amendment and due process.

What say you, Trumpsters?  Still hope he's good for his promises? Still calling him conservative?
It's Trump's reverence for the 2nd and 5th Amendments that comforts me when I think about the upcoming SCOTUS nominees.

Offline sitetest

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2016, 05:39:36 am »
I think @Mechanicos has me on ignore, but I will put this out for everyone else in response to his statement: why say it at all then.  The described person, having been found guilty, would have been removed of their rights.

That's way too logical for a stumpy worshipper.

Again, if the fellow is a formal enemy of the state, and is a citizen, that means the fellow has been convicted of espionage or treason, and will not be buying a firearm, like, ever.  Thus, saying nice things about this legislation would either be redundant and stupid, or ignorant, stupid, and lacking in any sense of constutionality.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 05:40:14 am by sitetest »
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geronl

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2016, 08:13:07 am »

Why is it that every time Trump opens his mouth all that comes out is either bigger, more intrusive government, or ignorance of the nation's most basic governing concepts?

I think we can all imagine the answer.

Offline markomalley

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2016, 09:35:48 am »
Here is the problem, and it is right in line with similar proposals for those on no fly lists.

Being a suspect is not being charged nor is it being convicted so there is zero basis for the removal of that right. It just means some government bureaucrat thinks, based on the random criteria of the day, that you are a suspect to be investigated.

Remember, DHS has been reported to have high on 'suspect lists' for domestic terrorists people who are members of Tea Party groups, militias, veterans, and even just being a gun owner can make you suspect to them.

http://www.teaparty.org/dhs-brands-gun-owners-are-terrorists-18853/

Always watch out for knee jerk political actions after events like this that strip liberty in mass.

Exactly so.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2016, 10:46:00 am »
Agree with Trump on this. People on watch lists should not get access to guns. Just makes responsible gun owners look bad IMO.

Offline sitetest

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2016, 12:02:57 pm »
Agree with Trump on this. People on watch lists should not get access to guns. Just makes responsible gun owners look bad IMO.

So you would take rights from 700,000 or so people based on anonymous charges made by anonymous bureaucrats often arbitrarily made, without access to due process?
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Offline Just_Victor

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2016, 12:13:12 pm »
Exactly!  No one wants to give guns to known terrorists.  Neither do we want to sacrifice the 2nd Amendment to overcharged suspicion.  Guns can also protect us from the terrorists.


Given that the vast majority of these shooters were registered democRATs or just crazed liberals, maybe we should outlaw firearms in the hands of leftists.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2016, 12:30:42 pm »
A stroke of a pen by any sitting POTUS could make any group "terror suspects".
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2016, 12:34:17 pm »
I'm trying to remember...which candidate was it that received the NRA's full endorsement?

I suppose they're all morons and dupes though, or just unprincipled like the rest of us Trump supporters. If only we was as smrt as u peeples.

Really??  Do you have any idea which of the candidates represented 31 states in the District of Columbia v. Heller case, which upheld the individual right to keep and bear arms; and by the way in essence saved our 2nd Amendment Rights? TED CRUZ!!  I'll continue to support the guy who has actually done something to ensure and protect our 2nd amendment rights.  As far as Trump supporters being morons, dupes and unprincipled; you said it not me!  :silly: :silly: :silly:

https://www.tedcruz.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/Heller_Amicus_Brief.pdf

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/02/how_scalia_and_ted_cruz_saved_the_2nd_amendment.html
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 12:42:07 pm by libertybele »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2016, 12:44:17 pm »
The Rest of the story Sink left out from the article:

So it sounds like Due Process is involved. "Known enemy of state", Not just on a watch list. Its in the same class as denying felons.

But that does not help the democrats smear trump.

That's not due process. Putin could have said that.  I'm agnostic on this particular issue, but Trump has never shown the slightest interest in due process, whether it's the First Amendment or the Second.   

When the world is in crisis, the temptation is great to turn to a strongman.   We will regret the rise of Trumpism to the end of our days.   
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 12:45:03 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2016, 12:44:49 pm »
Agree with Trump on this. People on watch lists should not get access to guns. Just makes responsible gun owners look bad IMO.

Yesterday in France, a Muslim jihadist stabbed a French police chief to death outside his home then tortured the dead man's wife to death while the couple's toddler watched, all the while streaming the entire incident live on Facebook.

The response here should be swift and decisive.

Knife owners should not be allowed to have Facebook accounts, since they can make responsible Facebook users look bad.
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2016, 12:45:48 pm »
So you would take rights from 700,000 or so people based on anonymous charges made by anonymous bureaucrats often arbitrarily made, without access to due process?

Or from someone who had a similar name as someone on the list, or who was put on the list in error.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3218744/From-FBI-agents-ticking-wrong-box-controversial-tweets-end-no-fly-list.html
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2016, 02:01:20 pm »
So you would take rights from 700,000 or so people based on anonymous charges made by anonymous bureaucrats often arbitrarily made, without access to due process?

That's a problem with the watch list, not banning them from buying weapons. If and when more of these incidents happen, suspected terrorists buying weapons, it will just serve to make gun owners look bad.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2016, 02:02:15 pm »
Yesterday in France, a Muslim jihadist stabbed a French police chief to death outside his home then tortured the dead man's wife to death while the couple's toddler watched, all the while streaming the entire incident live on Facebook.

The response here should be swift and decisive.

Knife owners should not be allowed to have Facebook accounts, since they can make responsible Facebook users look bad.

Never said we should ban a single gun.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2016, 02:49:58 pm »
A stroke of a pen by any sitting POTUS could make any group "terror suspects".

Wasn't it you who said we needed a republican Obama with a pen?

Offline sitetest

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2016, 03:01:54 pm »
That's a problem with the watch list, not banning them from buying weapons. If and when more of these incidents happen, suspected terrorists buying weapons, it will just serve to make gun owners look bad.

That is meaningless word salad.  Try again.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2016, 03:04:17 pm »
Way too much emotion and hyperbole on this issue.

Obviously, you can't simply take away gun rights from someone for being on the current watch-list that we have. A higher standard must be established, because the current watchlist is an amalgam of a number of law enforcement methodologies, bureaucratic record keeping and poor investigative techniques...most of these shortcomings being related to insufficient resources to monitor such large numbers of people. So a standard that is so large and unspecific is not a good tool for limiting access to firearms. That said, a standard can be established with a much higher level of scrutiny...there are currently more than a hundred active investigations into terror connections, in all 50 states, and likely hundreds more that have been conducted with "inconclusive" results. That is the target group, or it should be, for the kind of weapons ban we are talking about. Making a ban inclusive of persons under "reasonable suspicion" of "foreign" terror ties, and establishing strict guidelines for how the FBI would determine who fits in that category, is a more nuanced and effective way to limit the access such people have to heavy weaponry.

Mr. Trump's biggest weakness, and I say this as a supporter, is that he blurts out non-specific concepts such as limiting access to weapons for people suspected of terror ties...a point that is not wrong but is so vague as to create valid concern that such an approach could be abused and become tyrannical. As time goes by, his approach will refine itself into something like I've asserted above...so while I understand all of the concerns on this topic, they are unwarranted. Even if Mr Trump wanted to put in place such a broad restriction, it would fail to survive even the more liberal courts in the nation. He will out of necessity have to narrow the scope and focus of his restrictions....but at least he has the will to do that much in a way that focuses on foreign terrorism within the U.S. and will not, as Mrs. Clinton/Obama strive to do...seek to limit access to guns for the entire nation.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 03:05:03 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2016, 03:24:02 pm »
Wasn't it you who said we needed a republican Obama with a pen?

Yeah...but again...you leave out all context.

We were discussing overturning all of Barack Obama's EOs.

Plus, I still maintain there were be enormous coattails for GOP candidates and a GOP House and Senate...together with an adversarial MSM will keep Trump on the straight and narrow.

"I gots to believe...."
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 03:24:42 pm by DCPatriot »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Donald Trump Has Called for Blocking Gun Sales to Terror Suspects
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2016, 03:31:06 pm »
Or from someone who had a similar name as someone on the list, or who was put on the list in error.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3218744/From-FBI-agents-ticking-wrong-box-controversial-tweets-end-no-fly-list.html

Tens of thousands of people have erroneously been put on watch lists and no-fly lists without any recourse.

It's been a potent political weapon to use to punish groups of people because there is no accountability, no criteria and once on one of these lists, you cannot be removed (unless you happen to be Ted Kennedy).

Yes, even Ted Kennedy was put on one.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775