Author Topic: No, Trump can’t get a Mexican American judge recused just because Trump wants to ‘build a wall’ to exclude illegal immigrants By Eugene Volokh  (Read 6149 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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No, Trump can’t get a Mexican American judge recused just because Trump wants to ‘build a wall’ to exclude illegal immigrants
By Eugene Volokh
The Volokh Conspiracy

But most such possibilities for judicial bias, and most things that may appear to create a risk of bias, do not justify recusal, for several (partly related) reasons:

1. Especially when it comes to political and identity issues, most judges would have some possible bias. Liberal judges may be biased against conservative litigants, but conservative ones may be biased in favor of them. Pro-immigration-from-Mexico judges (who may be disproportionately, though by no means solely, Mexican American) may be biased against Trump, but anti-immigration-from-Mexico judges (who would likely be disproportionately, though by no means solely, non-Mexican American) may be biased in favor. To the extent black judges are more likely to sympathize with black plaintiffs suing white defendants under anti-discrimination laws, white judges are more likely to sympathize with the defendants (again, reflecting the simple reality that some such racial sympathies do exist in some measure).

2. Judges, no less than people in other jobs, are supposed to be treated equally without regard to race, sex, ethnicity, religion and the like. Concluding that Hispanic judges can’t sit in Trump cases because of their ethnicity or that Catholic judges can’t sit in abortion cases because of their religion or that female judges can’t sit in abortion cases because of their sex would wrongly deny those judges an opportunity to have a say in those cases. And that’s especially wrong since, as #1 points out, judges from groups that form a majority on the bench can’t be equally recused in those cases because then there’d be too few judges eligible to hear the cases.

3. If all it takes to get a judge thrown off the case is to say things that the judge may dislike, litigants will find it easy to manipulate their cases just by saying things. Trump, of course, has his own political reasons for saying what he’s saying about immigration — but if Curiel has to recuse himself in this case, then the next litigant who doesn’t like Curiel’s rulings would likewise be able to get a different judge simply by echoing Trump’s statements. Don’t like your Jewish judge? Say something anti-Semitic. Don’t like your rich judge? Talk about how evil the 1 percent are. The legal system can’t tolerate such opportunities for manipulation.

Litigants have to deal with the judges they’re dealt, even when the judge’s race, ethnicity, sex, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation or socioeconomic status may indeed have some tendency to predispose the judge against the litigant (or in favor of the litigant’s opponents). We demand that judges be impartial despite those factors — but, again, judges being human, it’s inevitable that some partiality will remain in some situations. It’s an imperfect system, as all human systems are. But it’s a much better system than one in which Donald Trump’s cases can only be heard by judges who have no cause to dislike Donald Trump’s opinions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/06/03/no-trump-cant-get-a-mexican-american-judge-recused-just-because-trump-wants-to-build-a-wall-to-exclude-illegal-immigrants/
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline sinkspur

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Trump knows he's going to lose this class action suit and wants to lay the predicate for why he lost.

The Judge is a Mexican and was biased against Trump.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Trump knows he's going to lose this class action suit and wants to lay the predicate for why he lost.

The Judge is a Mexican and was biased against Trump.

Yeah, that's pretty obvious.  What I'm wondering is, what happens if Trump gets put in the position of the dog that actually catches the car?  What does he do with it?  Of course, it's not the first time we've seen him catch that car.  Look how classy he's been to his vanquished foes after the last of them dropped out.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Mechanicos

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This article is  :bsflag:

in this thread

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,210154.msg913195.html#new

is more then enough ammunition to trigger:

The Code of Conduct for United States Judges, which states explicitly that “Canon 2: A Judge Should Avoid Impropriety and the Appearance of Impropriety in All Activities.” It isn’t necessary that the judge is actually behaving with impropriety. It is sufficient that his conduct appears improper, something that impairs confidence in the judiciary as a whole, regardless of the judge’s actual motives and conduct.

Both poster and source busted.

Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Yeah, that's pretty obvious.  What I'm wondering is, what happens if Trump gets put in the position of the dog that actually catches the car?  What does he do with it?  Of course, it's not the first time we've seen him catch that car.  Look how classy he's been to his vanquished foes after the last of them dropped out.

That makes him, in the words of the most prominent libertarian constitutional scholars in the nation) a danger "to constitutional values and the rule of law."

Obama redux, with a bigger ego and less understanding of the Constitution and the restraints and limitations it places on the powers of the office of POTUS.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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This article is  :bsflag:

in this thread

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,210154.msg913195.html#new

is more then enough ammunition to trigger:

The Code of Conduct for United States Judges, which states explicitly that “Canon 2: A Judge Should Avoid Impropriety and the Appearance of Impropriety in All Activities.” It isn’t necessary that the judge is actually behaving with impropriety. It is sufficient that his conduct appears improper, something that impairs confidence in the judiciary as a whole, regardless of the judge’s actual motives and conduct.

Both poster and source busted.

He's given no appearance of impropriety in anyone's minds but Trump's and his dogs.

Eugene Volohk and Ilya Somin are two of the most prestigious Constitutional law scholars in the nation.

You are BS.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Mechanicos

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He's given no appearance of impropriety in anyone's minds but Trump's and his dogs.

Eugene Volohk and Ilya Somin are two of the most prestigious Constitutional law scholars in the nation.

You are BS.
Pick any one:
1 His relationship with the prosecuting Attorneys firm that is a heavy Democrat Donor and hired Hillary for hundreds of Thousands to speak at their firm.
2. His Being a senior Board member of a group giving out Scholarships to Illegals,
3. His Rulings where he refused to dismiss a case with no Plaintiff because she withdrew,
4. His Membership in a La Raza Lawyers Group that links to and co-mingles with the the La Raza Councel including cross linking their web sites and shared community projects.
5. He on his own initiative without it being before him advised the Plaintiffs attorneys to add RICO charges.

Any one triggers Canon 2.

The more people learn of this, and the Media is ineffective at keeping this suppressed, the worse the back lash will be and the better for Trump it will be.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

geronl

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Trump doesn't really believe those things anyway.

Trump University has nothing to do with race, or with the wall.

Trump knows he's guilty and is trying to muddy the waters in the case.

Oceander

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Pick any one:
1 His relationship with the prosecuting Attorneys firm that is a heavy Democrat Donor and hired Hillary for hundreds of Thousands to speak at their firm.
2. His Being a senior Board member of a group giving out Scholarships to Illegals,
3. His Rulings where he refused to dismiss a case with no Plaintiff because she withdrew,
4. His Membership in a La Raza Lawyers Group that links to and co-mingles with the the La Raza Councel including cross linking their web sites and shared community projects.
5. He on his own initiative without it being before him advised the Plaintiffs attorneys to add RICO charges.

Any one triggers Canon 2.

The more people learn of this, and the Media is ineffective at keeping this suppressed, the worse the back lash will be and the better for Trump it will be.

None of those triggers mandatory recusal.  If you say otherwise, cite chapter and verse, and controlling case authority that mandates refusal.  Otherwise stfu about things of which you know nothing. 

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That makes him, in the words of the most prominent libertarian constitutional scholars in the nation) a danger "to constitutional values and the rule of law."

Obama redux, with a bigger ego and less understanding of the Constitution and the restraints and limitations it places on the powers of the office of POTUS.

I see a huge opportunity for mischief.  Imagine a Trump Presidency picking up and advancing the Obama precedents of pushing the legal envelope at every turn.  Fortunately Obama's been slapped down by a few 9-0 SCOTUS decisions, but he's gotten around that by simply ignoring verdicts that don't go his way.  His bureaucracies are already ignoring orders from lower level judges.  Have for years.

If the stakes weren't so high, this could be really entertaining.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Mechanicos

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None of those triggers mandatory recusal.  If you say otherwise, cite chapter and verse, and controlling case authority that mandates refusal.  Otherwise stfu about things of which you know nothing.
Appearance of Impropriety does. It does not require an actual conflict.

As more of this comes out MILLIONS of Americans will be losing faith in the Judiciary's Impartiality. That's why the Cannon exists to prevent that.
But since you asked:

 28 U.S.C. §§ 455

IV. Disqualification Based on Question of Partiality: Section 455(a)
http://tinyurl.com/jujy39z

« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 07:35:42 pm by Mechanicos »
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Oceander

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Appearance of Impropriety does. It does not require an actual conflict.

As more of this comes out MILLIONS of Americans will be losing faith in the Judiciary's Impartiality. That's why the Cannon exists to prevent that.

Cite controlling case law, or even advisory opinions, that suppor your assertion.  "Appearance of impropriety" is a term of art with a much smaller range of meaning than it has in everyday discussion.  I see nothing that meets the more limited legal definition.  If you do, put up or sit down.

Offline thatcher

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Quote
As more of this comes out MILLIONS of Americans will be losing faith in the Judiciary's Impartiality.

You sound positively giddy about this -- conservatives not so much.

Offline RoosGirl

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Pick any one:
1 His relationship with the prosecuting Attorneys firm that is a heavy Democrat Donor and hired Hillary for hundreds of Thousands to speak at their firm.
2. His Being a senior Board member of a group giving out Scholarships to Illegals,
3. His Rulings where he refused to dismiss a case with no Plaintiff because she withdrew,
4. His Membership in a La Raza Lawyers Group that links to and co-mingles with the the La Raza Councel including cross linking their web sites and shared community projects.
5. He on his own initiative without it being before him advised the Plaintiffs attorneys to add RICO charges.

Any one triggers Canon 2.

The more people learn of this, and the Media is ineffective at keeping this suppressed, the worse the back lash will be and the better for Trump it will be.

#2.  Is there proof of this somewhere?  I saw the pdf of the flyer with him on the committee that awards scholarships.  But, I haven't seen any proof that scholarships are being given to illegals.  You got that?

Offline Mechanicos

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Cite controlling case law, or even advisory opinions, that suppor your assertion.  "Appearance of impropriety" is a term of art with a much smaller range of meaning than it has in everyday discussion.  I see nothing that meets the more limited legal definition.  If you do, put up or sit down.
Done Counselor
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

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#2.  Is there proof of this somewhere?  I saw the pdf of the flyer with him on the committee that awards scholarships.  But, I haven't seen any proof that scholarships are being given to illegals.  You got that?
I seriously doubt mechaniwhatever has it.  He's too busy cut/pasting his glorious leader's talking points to vet anything properly.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Mechanicos

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#2.  Is there proof of this somewhere?  I saw the pdf of the flyer with him on the committee that awards scholarships.  But, I haven't seen any proof that scholarships are being given to illegals.  You got that?
Some in here on this site on this thread
http://gotnews.com/megyn-kelly-lying-judge-gonzalo-curiel/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20gotnewsdotcom%20%28Got%20News%29

Some more here on TOS
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3436991/posts

Some more here:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,210328.0.html

Some from listening to Trump describe the rulings.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline thatcher

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#2.  Is there proof of this somewhere?  I saw the pdf of the flyer with him on the committee that awards scholarships.  But, I haven't seen any proof that scholarships are being given to illegals.  You got that?

CA has been providing in-state tuition and other educational aid to illegal immigrants since the law was passed in January 2013.  If Curiel provided funds for a scholarship via the local Hispanic attorneys group, good for him -- would rather private citizens (he's an American after all) do it than taxpayers.

Offline Mechanicos

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I seriously doubt mechaniwhatever has it.  He's too busy cut/pasting his glorious leader's talking points to vet anything properly.
Actually I took a challenge from a transaction attorney to find Law and case sites on the rules for Federal Judaical recuse. Met it but took a little bit to find it in a small setting. 
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17


Offline RoosGirl

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@catfish1957   For your review:

http://gotnews.com/mexican-judge-gonzalo-curiel/

There does appear to be a direct link between the judge, his position on the scholarship committee, and dispersal of funds to a self-proclaimed "undocumented" law student.

@Mechanicos Thank you for the links. 

We should all have a huge problem with judges being involved in groups giving scholarships to illegals.

Offline Mechanicos

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You sound positively giddy about this -- conservatives not so much.
We are conservatives Thatcher. The main difference is we were not bombarded day after day for months of how evil Trump was.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline RoosGirl

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CA has been providing in-state tuition and other educational aid to illegal immigrants since the law was passed in January 2013.  If Curiel provided funds for a scholarship via the local Hispanic attorneys group, good for him -- would rather private citizens (he's an American after all) do it than taxpayers.

This is one of the most bizarre things I have read in quite a while.  Good for him for providing scholarship money to an illegal?  Wow.

Oceander

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Done Counselor


I don't think so.  You quoted the statute, but no case law construing the statute.  Try this:  "it is intolerable for a litigant, without any factual basis, to suggest that a judge cannot be impartial because of his or her race and political background."  Macdraw, Inc. v. CIT Group, 157 F.3d 956, 963 (2d Cir. 1998) (no recusal required for Asian judge even though defendant had been publicly critical of a prominent Asian).

Uninformed speculation and criticism - even if widely reported in the media - do not trigger disqualification under sec. 445(a).  U.S. v. Bayless, 201 F.3d 116 (2d Cir. 2000).  The need for disqualification "is to be determined 'not by considering what a straw poll of the only partly informed man-in-the-street would show but by examining the record facts and the law, and then deciding whether a reasonable person knowing and understanding all the relevant facts would recuse the judge.'"  U.S. v. Bayless at 127.  The "reasonable person" is an "objective, disinterested observer" who is privy to full knowledge of the surrounding circumstances.  U.S. v. Bayless at 126.

None, I repeat none, of the requirements have been established, most especially not by you. 

Now sit down and stfu.

Oceander

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Actually I took a challenge from a transaction attorney to find Law and case sites on the rules for Federal Judaical recuse. Met it but took a little bit to find it in a small setting. 

You did neither.  U.S. v. Bayless, 201 F.3d 116 (2d Cir. 2000); Macdraw, Inc. v. CIT Group, 157 F.3d 956 (2d Cir. 1998).

Now sit down like a good little toddler and stfu.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2016, 08:05:25 pm by Oceander »