Author Topic: Why I will/will not vote for Trump  (Read 8042 times)

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2016, 09:30:19 pm »
On legal issues alone....

Trump has said he would loosen the Libel Laws to make it easier to sue the press. No good.

“I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money,” Mr. Trump said in February. “We’re going to open up those libel laws. So when The New York Times writes a hit piece which is a total disgrace or when The Washington Post, which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win money instead of having no chance of winning because they’re totally protected.”

Trump said in a debate, Judge Alito signed a bill. Judges do not sign bills.

Said in a debate that Senator Ted Cruz of Texas had criticized Mr. Trump’s sister, a federal appeals court judge, “for signing a certain bill,” adding for good measure that Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., while still an appeals court judge, had also “signed that bill.”

But bills are legislative rather than judicial documents. And, as it happened, Judge Alito had not joined the opinion in question.


Trump does not understand the Judicial branch.

Trump says he would appoint Judges who who would prosecute

“probably appoint people that would look very seriously at” Hillary Clinton’s “email disaster because it’s criminal activity.” In the constitutional structure, however, Supreme Court justices are neither investigators nor prosecutors.

Mr. Trump has boasted that he will use Mr. Obama’s actions as precedent for his own expansive assertions of executive power.

“He’s led the way, to be honest with you,” he said in January on “Meet the Press,” referring to Mr. Obama’s program to spare millions of immigrants in the country unlawfully from deportation. “But I’m going to use them much better, and they’re going to serve a much better purpose than what he’s done.”

I won't even mention the flip-flops, anger issues, etc.


« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 09:32:41 pm by GrouchoTex »

Online roamer_1

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2016, 09:32:04 pm »
Well, @roamer_1 I've been asking someone to define conservatism for months now.  I've not had any takers.  This could be your calling.  So what ---today, right now----is Conservatism?   Enlighten me.

Conservatism is a collection of principles derived from four subsets or factions:

Under Goldwater:
Fiscal Conservatism
Defense Conservatism
Civil-Libertarianism

Under Reagan:
Fiscal Conservatism
Social Conservatism
Defense Conservatism
Civil-Libertarianism

It was Reagan that argued that the principles of each cannot be preserved without preserving them all.
Thus a Reagan Conservative candidate will embrace ALL of the principle things of ALL of the factions.
Each of the factions will not compromise those unmovable truths to which they adhere. To get them to work together, all of those 'first things' must be preserved.  When everyone's first things are preserved, and no one is in the back of the bus (or under the bus), the Conservative juggernaut awakens. Then you win with an unstoppable force.

The reason being that those principles, unarguably interwoven, contain the core of Americana.

Your mission, should you accept it, is to find out those immovable truths (Wikipedia is your friend), and try to defend your candidate on those points.

Online DB

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2016, 09:54:11 pm »
Yes, of course.  This strategy has worked so well for the past eight years.  Keep yapping from the sidelines while the country is fundamentally changed.  Don't raise a hand to stop the change, don't put yourself in a position to actually affect the course of events.  Just keep your hands clean and keep on yapping.

Good plan.  Good, good plan.

Cowards

Actually, I've voted for every Republican nominee since I was 18. And no, it didn't work. I'm going to do something different because doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is simply foolish - if not worse.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2016, 10:05:04 pm »
I'd be willing to bet that no NeverTrumper will take the time to watch that video RiV. 

Their minds are made up!

****sheep****  Hillary 2016 = Cruz 2020!   ****sheep****

I understand his appeal, AW.  I'd say, putting aside the matter of Trump, that I'm as close ideologically to, say, RIV as I am to anyone else on this board.   And it saddens me that there can be no reconciliation with those on this board who thoughtfully support Trump.   

 Do you understand why I believe he lacks the temperament to President?    Why I think his vindictiveness and bullying just aren't suited to the Presidency?    Why he scares so many of us?     
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2016, 10:07:18 pm »
@Texas Yellow Rose
Nope.  There no excuse for conservatives not sending their leader (whoever the hell that is) to sit down face to face with Donald Trump and negotiate the role Conservatives will have in the Trump administration. 

So you finally separate Trump from Conservatives and tacitly admit that Trump is not one of them.

So what sort of negotiation do you propose?  What role do you see Conservatives having under a non-conservative Trump Administration?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline L9teen

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2016, 10:18:12 pm »
Well, @roamer_1 I've been asking someone to define conservatism for months now.  I've not had any takers.  This could be your calling.  So what ---today, right now----is Conservatism?   Enlighten me.
Conservatism, is the conserving of virtues, values, ideals, and traditions, for this, and future generations, that throughout human history, have been proven to work. :patriot:

Offline L9teen

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2016, 10:21:36 pm »
Actually, I've voted for every Republican nominee since I was 18. And no, it didn't work. I'm going to do something different because doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is simply foolish - if not worse.
:amen:
To those who want us to "settle" for Trump:

 I made the last political mistake I will ever make voting for McCain to get Palin. And thus I learned my lesson.

You can elect all the lesser evil types you like. We see the result. We live it. Obviously if your way worked it would be ridiculously easy to quantify. Yet what do we see? We see math in action. When you keep compromising and putting more leftists in office, you get, and demonstratably we all GOT, more leftism running the country.
 
 So if you think that yet another fear vote is gonna save the country when the historical record shows that it has done NOTHING but make matters worse, I really don't know what to tell you.
 
 There always seems to be a reason with the lesser evil types to not stand on principle. And it manifests every 2 years. Why do you suppose that is? There are always claims of 'purity' and of "This is our last chance/most important election ever in the history of most important elections ever just like the last several most important elections ever. Do you ever get sick of these sky falling claims? Do you think collective amnesia sweeps in and blinds everyone to the very same pattern repeating?
 
 Every election. Every election you pragmatics force your way through fear, false claims and repetitive catch phrasing and every year we get further and further from the ideals and government America was founded on. So when is good for you? When should we stop?
 
 2 years ago your side told us we had to elect Jonbon and Mitch and Ryan because it was the most important election ever, they won and handed Obama every major issue he wanted. No different, aside from impotent protestations than what the dems would have on their own
 
 2 years before that in the most important election ever, your team told America that we just had to elect the guy who profits from incinerating the dead babies his own laws as governor created. Then within 24 hours of the great Fail of 12, he turned on a dime and disavowed every bit of the outright crap he fed gullable right wingers and the GOP went on to give Obama every major issue he wanted and several smaller ones, telling us to keep our powder dry.
 
 Notice the pattern?
 
 Stop repeating it. :chairbang:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2016, 10:50:00 pm »
It's not as important as making sure Hillary wins in 2016, so that Saint Ted can come in and save us all in 2020.

@alicewonders

Yeah, just like he did in 2016 after eight years of Obama.   :smokin:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2016, 10:51:50 pm »
Conservatism, is the conserving of virtues, values, ideals, and traditions, for this, and future generations, that throughout human history, have been proven to work. :patriot:

Words @L9teen ... nothing but words.  What's the conservative action plan? 

Online Bigun

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2016, 10:55:25 pm »
Words @L9teen ... nothing but words.  What's the conservative action plan?

To keep a slug like Donald J. Trump from getting anywhere near the presidency of the United States!

That will do for now.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien


Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2016, 10:57:41 pm »
So you finally separate Trump from Conservatives and tacitly admit that Trump is not one of them.

Absolutely wrong @Hoodat.  I have read for months from so many posters that Donald Trump is not a conservative.  I find it curious that no one has defined 21st conservatism, so I'm left wondering how you conclude with such surety that Trump is not a conservative.

Care to take a stab at defining conservatism and explaining how Donald Trump's proposals disappoint this philosophy?

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2016, 10:59:06 pm »


Duh

Okay, @L9teen, you've moved from words to pictures.  What's still missing is the conservative plan of action.

Online Bigun

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2016, 11:01:09 pm »
Absolutely wrong @Hoodat.  I have read for months from so many posters that Donald Trump is not a conservative.  I find it curious that no one has defined 21st conservatism, so I'm left wondering how you conclude with such surety that Trump is not a conservative.

Care to take a stab at defining conservatism and explaining how Donald Trump's proposals disappoint this philosophy?

That has been done many times over the last several months! You don't  like the answers  you have gotten!  Not going to change a thing! We won't  vote for YOU'RE  thug!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline L9teen

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2016, 11:07:01 pm »
Basically, we should all be working towards the goal to reverse these:
Quote
[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]   
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.   

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.   

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.   

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.   

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.   

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.   

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.   

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.   

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.   

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.   

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)   

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.   

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.   

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.   

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.   

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.   

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.   

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.   

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.   

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.   

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.   

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."   

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."   

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.   

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.   

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."   

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."   

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."   

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.   

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."   

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.   

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.   

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.   

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.   

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.   

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.   

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.   

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].   

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.   

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.   

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.   

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.   

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.   

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction (over domestic problems.  Give the World Court jurisdiction) over nations and individuals
alike.[/size]

Online Bigun

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2016, 11:09:45 pm »
Basically, we should all be working towards the goal to reverse these:

 :amen:  :amen: and  :amen:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2016, 11:11:30 pm »
There have been a number of requests on the FR Refugee thread to take the politics elsewhere.  And there have been a number of comments on the topic regarding the reasons why someone would or would not vote for Trump.  Maybe we can use this area to discuss that?

Due to my experience as a psychological examiner, I have evaluated Trump's behavior as a child and adult, and believe Trump has a mental disorder and will not vote for him.  One cannot expect normal behavior from a mentally disturbed person so, in my opinion, he cannot be trusted.  Period. 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2016, 11:13:14 pm »
Due to my experience as a psychological examiner, I have evaluated Trump's behavior as a child and adult, and believe Trump has a mental disorder and will not vote for him.  One cannot expect normal behavior from a mentally disturbed person so, in my opinion, he cannot be trusted.  Period.

Well, thanks for sharing.   :laugh:

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2016, 11:15:15 pm »
Absolutely wrong @Hoodat.  I have read for months from so many posters that Donald Trump is not a conservative.  I find it curious that no one has defined 21st conservatism, so I'm left wondering how you conclude with such surety that Trump is not a conservative.

Care to take a stab at defining conservatism and explaining how Donald Trump's proposals disappoint this philosophy?

Here's what conservatism is NOT:

Massive tax increases on the poorest Americans by imposing punitive tariffs on entire countries like Mexico and China
Ordering the murders of innocent women and children
Singling out people for criticism because of their race
Encouraging the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
Praising the work of Planned Parenthood
Insulting anyone who disagrees with your views
Saying you'll pay for lawyers' fees for anyone who bashes protesters at your rally
Threatening businesses with reprisals if they decide to locate out of the US

Trump advocates all of these.  None of these are "conservative."

Your boy is a garbage fire.  Trashing a Mexican judge because his parents were Mexican.

I'm hoping this begins the unraveling of the Trump odyssey.
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2016, 11:19:13 pm »
Due to my experience as a psychological examiner, I have evaluated Trump's behavior as a child and adult, and believe Trump has a mental disorder and will not vote for him.  One cannot expect normal behavior from a mentally disturbed person so, in my opinion, he cannot be trusted.  Period.

Well, you know what they say about free psychological evaluations - you get what you pay for.  I don't know any competent psychologists that would evaluate someone that they haven't personally examined - much less to give any credence to someone that has such an obvious bias against them. 

But thanks for your opinion - I'll take it for what it's worth. 

 :silly: :silly: :silly:
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We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Online Bigun

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2016, 11:22:17 pm »

But thanks for your opinion - I'll take it for what it's worth. 

 :silly: :silly: :silly:
That's exactly how I  take anything that comes out of Trumps mouth!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2016, 11:27:24 pm »
Absolutely wrong @Hoodat.  I have read for months from so many posters that Donald Trump is not a conservative.  I find it curious that no one has defined 21st conservatism, so I'm left wondering how you conclude with such surety that Trump is not a conservative.

Care to take a stab at defining conservatism and explaining how Donald Trump's proposals disappoint this philosophy?

How about this.  How about you telling us how Trump is anti-Big-Government....and how has his past stances and actions proven that?  What big government issues has he been or is he against?  I think you should, by now, already know that conservatives are anti-big government and are for less (much less) government than what we have now.   How, exactly, would Trump implement such a conservative, less-government administration?
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Offline Texas Yellow Rose

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2016, 11:40:23 pm »
@Texas Yellow Rose

Nope.  There no excuse for conservatives not sending their leader (whoever the hell that is) to sit down face to face with Donald Trump and negotiate the role Conservatives will have in the Trump administration. 

There's no excuse not to do this.  None.  Zero.  Zilch.

I should have elaborated on my answer.  I don't believe that would accomplish much based on the attitude I see from Donald Trump concerning those that disagree with him or do not support him.  I believe they should try. 

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I will/will not vote for Trump
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2016, 02:03:45 am »
I should have elaborated on my answer.  I don't believe that would accomplish much based on the attitude I see from Donald Trump concerning those that disagree with him or do not support him.  I believe they should try.

I think the effort will be more than worth it ... and the outcomes a pleasant surprise.   :beer: