NOW: #Trump supporter attacked and left bleeding in San Jose (video)

[TomSea]

My sentiments as well,   but it's exactly because I feel that way that I find Trump repulsive.   Trump's a race pimp just as surely as Al Sharpton,  blaming the woes of the white working class on sinister "others".    (Sanders is no better, of course, he just identifies different bogeymen;  for him the others are Wall Street, for Trump the others are Mexicans)

Can you find a quote where Trump blames the Mexicans for white working class woes?

Or is one just saying it's okay to break the law and enter this country illegally and stay here?

[TomSea]

I've been to a couple of La Raza lawyer functions as a guest.  Regardless of how we quibble over the exact meaning of the word, there was a definite tone of racial/ethnic (whichever you want to call it) solidarity/identification that quite honestly shocked me.  There was a lot of "we Hispanics must..." type of stuff, and it was all much more "activist" than I would have thought.  And it wasn't like the friendly cultural flavor that you might see at the Italian-American lawyers association event.  Those folks don't meet and talk about advancing the interests of Italian Americans.

 This was different.  It wasn't that it was militant, exactly -- it was just much more race-conscious than I would have dreamed.  Not KKK- type stuff, but much more "judge by the content of skin not by content of character" than I think most people would find acceptable.  And certainly there was  major component of political activism, especially in terms of immigration.

I still think Trump was wrong to say what he did.  It serves no valid purpose because it won't help his case, and doesn't help him in the election.

Honestly, if this judge lists being a member of these Hispanic organizations and I think there were three different ones, it can't be a great wrong just to point this out.

[Mesaclone]

My sentiments as well,   but it's exactly because I feel that way that I find Trump repulsive.   Trump's a race pimp just as surely as Al Sharpton,  blaming the woes of the white working class on sinister "others".    (Sanders is no better, of course, he just identifies different bogeymen;  for him the others are Wall Street, for Trump the others are Mexicans)

Yes, I'd like to see where he blamed "legal" citizens of Mexican heritage for this .... vs blaming illegal immigration generally as causing many of the employment and societal woes faced by the working class. The "others" in this context you speak of, are those here in violation of the law...and quite frankly, Trump is not calling for anything more than enforcement of our immigration laws with regards to these folks. If you have a quote where he states that legal citizen Mexican Americans should be blamed for our problems, I'd like to see it.

[TomSea]

American Nazi Party = American Airlines...it's the same thing...they both have America in the name.
You make it too easy to mock you, and the others who try to make this connection.

Black Panthers, New Black Panthers, the newer organization must not have any relationship to the former.

[TomSea]

I know in one of these threads, the website for the Lawyers' Association, La Raza was listed and that website explicitly says it is for "Chicano and Latino Lawyers".

Chicano or Chicana (also spelled Xicano or Xicana) is a chosen identity of some Mexican Americans in the United States.[1] The term Chicano is sometimes used interchangeably with Mexican[-]American. Both names are chosen identities within the Mexican-American community in the United States. However, these terms have a wide range of meanings in various parts of the Southwest. The term became widely used during the Chicano Movement by Mexican Americans to express pride in a shared cultural, ethnic and community identity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicano

So, a lot of us have probably heard the word and as shown above, it seems to have different meanings.

[Mesaclone]

Black Panthers, New Black Panthers, the newer organization must not have any relationship to the former.

Yes, he's cleverly "flipped" the analogy on its head. The fitting comparison would be between the "American Nazi Party" and a counterpart of "Nazi Airlines". And yes, Once-ler, that would convey a commonality between even those disparate organizations.

[Right_in_Virginia]

My work colleague and close friend is from a generations-old Hispanic family and he is happy to go on about La Raza and just how racist its mission is...and he'll be glad to tell you the difference, in Spanish, between La Raza and La Gente. Not that you would listen, because he is also an avid Trump supporter...he and I attended the Trump rally in Fountain Hills a few months back. But back to point, its a sad effort to try and make LaRaza and LaGente synonymous...they absolutely are not.

Immigrants built and shaped this nation, bringing their hard work and devotion to family with them from Europe, Asia, Africa, Central America and from around the globe...so spare me the "you hate immigrants baloney", that's an old and tired left wing tactic. I have nothing but admiration for those who come to this nation, legally, looking for freedom and opportunity...and could care less what their ethnic and/or racial background might be. What I actually do hate, are those who come here in violation of our laws AND who seek not to assimilate into the nation, but to establish ethnic enclaves while campaigning to belittle the country and call for a large portion of to defect to their mother country.

It is disgusting, and I would add that groups which seek to divide Americans by race and ethnicity are the true racists in this country...I'm with MLK, everyone should be judged by the content of their character rather than superficial qualities such as the color of their skin. I had thought most conservatives felt this way as well, but its evident that some approve of groups that make a practice of hating on America and calling for its dismemberment in favor of Aztlan mythologies...groups who condone "any means necessary" to achieve their goal. And worse, groups that believe you can define Americans not by their character, but BY their skin color and ethnicity.

And finally, I really don't care if the local KKK or LaRaza group is in a bowling league...just not sure how you think that minimizes the nature of their overt racism. Odd that you would make such an insinuation. And references to Dr. Strangelove would be more apt when aimed at the paranoia and smug superiority of the NeverTrump movement. La Raza is not some aluminum foil conspiracy, it is simply a racist organization that believes race is the defining quality of human beings...and that "The Race" should retake the Southwestern part of the United States for Mexico.

Excellent post @Mesaclone

[bolobaby]

It does not matter what she did what she wore or what she said. The Left is 100% to blame for this assault. Its a sickness to blame the victim of an attack because you agree with the Thugs who attacked her.

Lie. I don't agree with the thugs who attacked her. Nice try.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable "full video" that always comes out with these carefully edited snippets. The one where we find out the "hero" actually asked for exactly what they got. If you are cautious of these mini-snippets that get released on the internet, it's because you are easily duped.

Oh, wait... you ARE supporting Trump. Nevermind. There's no hope for you.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm just waiting for the inevitable "full video" that always comes out with these carefully edited snippets. The one where we find out the "hero" actually asked for exactly what they got. If you are cautious of these mini-snippets that get released on the internet, it's because you are easily duped.

Do you really think the MSM would edit out a Trump supporter "asking for exactly what she got"?  Seriously? 

And I'm not quite sure what "asking for it" means.  Care to explain that @bolobaby?

[Mechanicos]

Lie. I don't agree with the thugs who attacked her. Nice try.

I'm just waiting for the inevitable "full video" that always comes out with these carefully edited snippets. The one where we find out the "hero" actually asked for exactly what they got. If you are cautious of these mini-snippets that get released on the internet, it's because you are easily duped.

Oh, wait... you ARE supporting Trump. Nevermind. There's no hope for you.

And you just used the little black dress excuse for a rape. That's just sick no matter how slick you thought it was when you said it. Understand American Conservatives turned away from Cruz when he did the same thing in Chicago. Its plain wrong thinking.

[alicewonders]

And you just used the little black dress excuse for a rape. That's just sick no matter how slick you thought it was when you said it. Understand American Conservatives turned away from Cruz when he did the same thing in Chicago. Its plain wrong thinking.

Exactly right.  No excuse for this kind of talk!  NeverTrumps are showing their true selves now - so if someone says something you don't like - it is understandable why you would physically attack them.

We used to have free speech - liberals have destroyed that.  Hopefully, Trump will destroy policitical correctness before it gets all of us killed. 

Liberals - free speech for me, not for thee. 

And, you are exactly right - when Ted Cruz blamed Trump for the violent protests in Chicago - was the moment he lost the race.  Americans are tired of that crap.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Black Panthers, New Black Panthers, the newer organization must not have any relationship to the former.

Of course they do.  The new group is based on the old group.

With La Raza you have a Latino phrase much like the word American.  You can slap that name on the front of barbershops, tattoo parlors, and pool halls.

https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/los-angeles-ca/4607556-la-raza-barber-shop
http://www.yelp.com/biz/la-raza-tattoo-and-permanent-makeup-by-jlo-tulare
http://www.manta.com/c/mmzv2rl/billar-la-raza

It doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Mesaclone]

Of course they do.  The new group is based on the old group.

With La Raza you have a Latino phrase much like the word American.  You can slap that name on the front of barbershops, tattoo parlors, and pool halls.

https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/los-angeles-ca/4607556-la-raza-barber-shop
http://www.yelp.com/biz/la-raza-tattoo-and-permanent-makeup-by-jlo-tulare
http://www.manta.com/c/mmzv2rl/billar-la-raza

It doesn't mean what you think it means.

Kinda like slapping a sign that says "Aryans" on the front of barbershops, tattoo parlors and pool halls in heavily white areas of the south...right?

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Kinda like slapping a sign that says "Aryans" on the front of barbershops, tattoo parlors and pool halls in heavily white areas of the south...right?

Are you telling me there are hundreds of "Aryan" businesses?  I guess you would know, but where are your links?

[Mesaclone]

Are you telling me there are hundreds of "Aryan" businesses?  I guess you would know, but where are your links?

There aren't because it wouldn't be tolerated, just as La Raza over a business should not be tolerated. Which is the point entirely. There being a double standard in which one version of racism is condemned, and justifiably so, while another is tolerated because folks like you are willing to  portray it as either justifiable or as "cultural" quirk that "other Americans" just don't get. Well, that kind of hypocrisy is not acceptable to me, sad to hear that you feel diffently. More to the point, no version of racism is acceptable, and the fact that its being generated from a minority population does not make it alright. You can dress it up in a semantic pretzel to change the meaning of the word Raza...race...and substitute "people", which is actually Gente...but a pig is still a pig.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

but a pig is still a pig.

I can agree on that small point.
A pig is a pig Mesaclone.

[txradioguy]

Just to remind the #neverconservative Trump worshipers here...the topic is:

NOW: #Trump supporter attacked and left bleeding in San Jose (video)

The Trumpers are masters at threadjacking.

[musiclady]

Just to remind the #neverconservative Trump worshipers here...the topic is:


The Trumpers are masters at threadjacking.

Indeed.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

With La Raza you have a Latino phrase much like the word American. 

"American" is a nationality.  Even according to their own website, La Raza refers to an ethnicity.  So the entire debate that it doesn't mean "the Race" is irrelevant, because the concept doesn't change regardless of whether we are discussing an indentifiable "race", or an "ethnicity".

And to that point, this comes directly from La Raza's own website:

"We believe in fighting for our community and for an America where economic, political, and social advancement is a reality for all Latinos.

Now personally, I think Americans should care about the advancement of all their countrymen, regardless of race or ethnicity.  And our "community" should be the people of all ethnicities who live in our neighborhoods.  We shouldn't be dividing ourselves based on skin color or ethnic heritage.  Yet that is exactly what La Raza does.  They admit it openly.
@Mesaclone .

So in a sense, your claim that "La Raza" is like "American" is rather telling.  Those people actually view their nation not as the United States, but rather their ethnic group.  And those who choose to define themselves as La Raza are stating that their loyalty flows to their ethnicity, not to this nation.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

"American" is a nationality.  Even according to their own website, La Raza refers to an ethnicity.  So the entire debate that it doesn't mean "the Race" is irrelevant, because the concept doesn't change regardless of whether we are discussing an indentifiable "race", or an "ethnicity".

And to that point, this comes directly from La Raza's own website:

"We believe in fighting for our community and for an America where economic, political, and social advancement is a reality for all Latinos.

Now personally, I think Americans should care about the advancement of all their countrymen, regardless of race or ethnicity.  And our "community" should be the people of all ethnicities who live in our neighborhoods.  We shouldn't be dividing ourselves based on skin color or ethnic heritage.  Yet that is exactly what La Raza does.  They admit it openly.
@Mesaclone .

So in a sense, your claim that "La Raza" is like "American" is rather telling.  Those people actually view their nation not as the United States, but rather their ethnic group.  And those who choose to define themselves as La Raza are stating that their loyalty flows to their ethnicity, not to this nation.

If you are saying National Council of La Raza is a extreme liberal advocacy group for Hispanics and illegal immigrants, I'm fine with that.  If you are saying that 100's of radio stations, barbers, pool halls, grocery stores and such, with the name La Raza, are part of a sinister conspiracy to take back the border states for Mexico, then we will have to agree to disagree.

I made my point as clear as I can, and that point is there is nothing menacing about the La Raza Lawyers of California...they are not the same group as National Council of La Raza, and Trump is a race-baiter as are some of the people who are defending his race-baiting and slamming this judge.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I enjoy reading your posts and you inspire me to keep my temper under control, even if at times I totally fail.

Don't sell yourself short Cuky.  You do a impressive job expressing your opinions in a calm reasoned manner. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

You can find all types of organizations supporting people of their own ethnic or cultural background whether out of pride or economic necessity, but that does not mean they do not consider themselves Americans first and foremost. Yes, there are those that do not. And, there are those who in a fit of anger lash out with anti-American crap. But, the vast majority are proud Americans.

I certainly believe that the majority of Latinos who are American citizens are patriotic Americans.  I question the priorities specifically of those who belong to La Raza.  If they have to choose between the U.S. and "La Raza", who do they prioritize?  I think this comes into play, in particular, on issues such as immigration.  Loyal to the laws of the U.S., or loyal to members of their ethnicity who came here illegally?

Actually, their statement could be used for most groups. Here is an example, probably a poor one, but  "We believe in fighting for our retired teachers and for an America where economic, political, and social advancement is a reality for all retired teachers.

I absolutely agree.  And not for a second do I believe that retired teachers all put the importance of properly educating children above their own interests.  The NEA, for example, is a union that looks out for its members first and foremost.  Not a professional association that exists to promote education.

If you are saying National Council of La Raza is a extreme liberal advocacy group for Hispanics and illegal immigrants, I'm fine with that.  If you are saying that 100's of radio stations, barbers, pool halls, grocery stores and such, with the name La Raza, are part of a sinister conspiracy to take back the border states for Mexico, then we will have to agree to disagree.

As for other ethnic groups, I likewise believe it is wrong to segment themselves off and to look out for other members of their group over and above other citizens.  So to the extent a Filipino is going to give a job to another Filipino over, say, someone who is black, I believe that is morally wrong.

Like I said, I've been to a couple of La Raza lawyers meetings.  I could care less about such ethnic groupings to the extent they are focused on cultural celebration. I do not like ethnic preferences or "sticking together" infecting employment or professional relationships.  It's flat-out discrimination, in my opinion, and I heard more about ethnic solidarity at the La Raza lawyers meetings then I ever anticipated.  I honestly was stunned by it.  Basically, the message was to hire Hispanic law students as clerks, patronize Hispanic businesses, etc..  Just...not what I was taught growing up.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Like I said, I've been to a couple of La Raza lawyers meetings.  I could care less about such ethnic groupings to the extent they are focused on cultural celebration. I do not like ethnic preferences or "sticking together" infecting employment or professional relationships.  It's flat-out discrimination, in my opinion, and I heard more about ethnic solidarity at the La Raza lawyers meetings then I ever anticipated.  I honestly was stunned by it.  Basically, the message was to hire Hispanic law students as clerks, patronize Hispanic businesses, etc..  Just...not what I was taught growing up.

I'm going to reply once more here, because you are trying very hard to make your point of view clear and the distinction you make is valid and understandable.  I want you to know I don't think I really disagree with what you are saying.  My point of view is not substantially different than yours.  Where we differ is in the weight of the value of " flat-out discrimination."

Discrimination is a dirty word today, but it wasn't that long ago the a person with discriminating taste was virtuous.

My reply might not flow from point to point easily because whiskey, but we probably agree that America is supposed to be a melting pot.  That doesn't mean we all reduce down to some homogeneous glob.  A big vat of stuff that can be scooped up into smaller portions of the American essence.  Rather we are like a stew.  The Latinoes might be the tomatoes, and the WASPs might be the potatoes, the Chinese are the onions, and the Jews are probably not the pork. 

The Jews have long supported there own and shunned the Goyim.  Perhaps pointing to the Jews might have made my point more understandable.  The Jews are a race and an ethnicity.  There are people who look at the Jews and their preference to hire Jews, and marry Jews, and promote Jews...and other people fear the Jews and they say Jews are evil...they talk about the 12 Jewish members of a global conspiracy to control the banks and media

I like to call those people freaks.

If instead of a La Raza grocery store it said "Kosher Grocer"...does that make it less sinister or unAmerican?

The Blacks do it too. Should I get worked up because a restaurant offers "soul food" and "Soul Train" is on TV?

Not sure if that makes my point more understandable but I have enjoyed fleshing the debate out with a fair, honest, and respectful voice.

[Mesaclone]

I certainly believe that the majority of Latinos who are American citizens are patriotic Americans.  I question the priorities specifically of those who belong to La Raza.  If they have to choose between the U.S. and "La Raza", who do they prioritize?  I think this comes into play, in particular, on issues such as immigration.  Loyal to the laws of the U.S., or loyal to members of their ethnicity who came here illegally?

I absolutely agree.  And not for a second do I believe that retired teachers all put the importance of properly educating children above their own interests.  The NEA, for example, is a union that looks out for its members first and foremost.  Not a professional association that exists to promote education.

As for other ethnic groups, I likewise believe it is wrong to segment themselves off and to look out for other members of their group over and above other citizens.  So to the extent a Filipino is going to give a job to another Filipino over, say, someone who is black, I believe that is morally wrong.

Like I said, I've been to a couple of La Raza lawyers meetings.  I could care less about such ethnic groupings to the extent they are focused on cultural celebration. I do not like ethnic preferences or "sticking together" infecting employment or professional relationships.  It's flat-out discrimination, in my opinion, and I heard more about ethnic solidarity at the La Raza lawyers meetings then I ever anticipated.  I honestly was stunned by it.  Basically, the message was to hire Hispanic law students as clerks, patronize Hispanic businesses, etc..  Just...not what I was taught growing up.

As always, cogent and fair. Kudos.

La Raza is much more than a far left group seeking to advance the success of Hispanics in America. They are going to tremendous lengths to introduce severely anti-American rhetoric into our classrooms, in Tucson this has been a scandalous and divisive battle in which Governors and State's Attorney's General have been forced to directly intervene by threatening to cut off school funding entirely. They have encouraged the banning of children wearing any pro-USA clothing at school and in particular on Cinco de Mayo...and were successful. They are preaching in MECHA and other classes about Aztlan and the righteous goal of returning much of American to Mexico. It is a racist AND seditious agenda.

You are correct that this is not some dark conspiracy, it is rather an open and aggressive movement that is using the La Raza term to spread its message and legitimize its mission...by getting groups like the La Raza lawyers association to align themselves with the La Raza message. This is NO different than sponsored businesses in the south during the early 1900's aligning themselves in a public way with racism and the KKK mission of bigotry. These businesses were barber shops, bowling alleys and an endless list of seeming innocuous commerce, but tainted by affiliation with the KKK. La Raza is no different, and should be condemned wherever it emerges just as KKK racism must be.

Many groups have civic organizations that support the economic and social success of their members. The NAACP, AIM and others are...though often wrong on issues...legitmate groups that further the success of individuals in their community. La Raza has nothing in common with these, unless the NAACP is now calling for the seditious overthrow of US authority over part of the nation...or unless the NAACP is striving to teach our children that white people are little more than evil oppressors. La Raza has more in common with the Klan, The Muslim Brotherhood and/or the Black Panthers than it does with any of those groups, and organizations/businesses that choose to further that agenda by using the La Raza moniker and affiliate themselves with that mission are confederates to its racism.

And I will add, that when you see paid protestors waiving Mexican flags and burning American flags out here in the Southwest, you are seeing La Raza at work. Dressing it up in a Lawyer's Association does not alter its nature, it simply seeks to legitimize its goals.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

My reply might not flow from point to point easily because whiskey,

Thanks for the chuckle.

The Jews have long supported there own and shunned the Goyim.  Perhaps pointing to the Jews might have made my point more understandable.  The Jews are a race and an ethnicity.  There are people who look at the Jews and their preference to hire Jews, and marry Jews, and promote Jews...and other people fear the Jews and they say Jews are evil...they talk about the 12 Jewish members of a global conspiracy to control the banks and media.

That's a good counter-example on your part, but I don't see it being done to nearly the same degree within the jewish community -- at least not so openly.  I know plenty of Jewish lawyers (a stereotype, but accurate), and I've really never run into any sense of "solidarity" -- they are as dedicated to their positions, and as opposed to their opponents, as are any other lawyers.  I do know there are a few "Jewish law firms" that tend to hire mostly other jews (of which I do not approve), but the vast majority of Jewish lawyers I know don't do that.  They hire whomever is good.  And perhaps more importantly, there doesn't seem to be as much of an overt political agenda on the part of those associations.

If instead of a La Raza grocery store it said "Kosher Grocer"...does that make it less sinister or unAmerican?  The Blacks do it too. Should I get worked up because a restaurant offers "soul food" and "Soul Train" is on TV?

That's a bit unfair because I expressly said I have no issues with ethnicities celebrating their culture.  So I'd have no more of a problem with a Mexican or La Raza" restaurant than I would with a place that offers soul food, or a kosher deli.  Maybe to put it differently, I view the activist aspect of La Raza the same as I do the kind of African-American "solidarity" that leads to people being referred to as "Uncle Tom".  That there is a certain political agenda that you are supposed to support because it is one that is linked directly to benefits for your ethnicity.

Anyway, I also appreciate the civilized discussion.  Too often attempts to discuss this stuff run off the rails with either racism, or false accusations of racism.  So, thank you.