Author Topic: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more  (Read 3553 times)

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Offline montanajoe

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 10:06:50 pm »
Where do you see it otherwise in the Constitution?  I am curious on the extrapolation that you have made that this is 'Commerce between the States'.


It's not me this is how the USSC has interpreted that particular clause in the Constitution. It's the oil and gas flowing between the states that gives the Fed's the power to regulate the wellhead....
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 11:31:13 pm by montanajoe »

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2016, 12:16:57 am »
I love to hear liberals scream.  Means the Constitution is being effective.

The #1 issue in this country, other than religious rights and crippling abortion, is the preservation of states' rights, like the Founders envisioned when they drew up that miraculous document called the US Constitution.  We actually fought a war over that issue, although many would deny that and say it was against slavery.
Had slavery been THE issue, the Emancipation proclamation would have been issued as a universal directive, and a lot sooner than 1863. That gesture was in hopes that the tractors of the agrarian South would be shut down, or worse, revolt against their owners. It was an economic sanction, and only directed toward the states Lincoln described as "in rebellion".
Economics factored heavily.
The seminal issue was, and had been, one of States Rights.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2016, 12:28:30 am »
Where do you see it otherwise in the Constitution?  I am curious on the extrapolation that you have made that this is 'Commerce between the States'.


It's not me this is how the USSC has interpreted that particular clause in the Constitution. It's the oil and gas flowing between the states that gives the Fed's the power to regulate the wellhead....



OIl and gas does not flow between the states except in extremely limited circumstances, like pipelines.

You think that a few pipelines that cross state boundaries gives the feds all authorities to regulate all oil and gas in this country?  do you realize how much oil and gas activities exist that have nothing to do with state boundaries?

And as far as the USSC, so what?  It is one of the three federal entities that assist the states in running this country.  They are certainly not absolute.  BTW, the only absolute in this country, other than the Creator, is 3/4 of the states, acting in unison.  with that, they can overturn anything in this country, like firing the President, dissolving Congress, and yes, throwing out the Supreme Court you apparently feel is the ultimate authority in this land.

Are you serious or are you just trying to bait us?

No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2016, 12:29:47 am »
Constitutional does not mean necessary. And yes, deregulating oil production at the federal level is essentially impossible to achieve politically.

My point is that deregulation does not necessarily mean you are in favor of unfettered rape of nature. Quite the contrary. I fully believe we should be stewards of the environment. Federalizing regulations, IMO, is not the best way to go about things. States might be the better avenue for regulations, since they may understand their local environment better.
North Dakota has a State regulatory agency which does a great job of ensuring compliance with regulations written by knowledgeable people who commonly worked in the industry, but who are North Dakotans. That combination ensures that those regulations will be intelligently written to address specific potential problems, and will safeguard landowners, the environment, and yet foster industry by not unnecessarily encumbering it with nonsensical regulations which add burden with no benefit.

In contrast, I have seen where Federal rules required a proposed route for a section of location access road (which followed the exact route a reclaimed location access road had followed to a different and previously drilled location) be fully surveyed for cultural remains, rare plants, raptor nests, etc., even though the route had been seeded with the BLM approved seed mixture, and had been reclaimed from a route which had been surveyed for all of that when the original road was put in.  The surveys were redundant, as the BLM approved seed mixture used in reclamation contained no rare plant seeds, and no new centuries old archaeological sites had been put in over the past year.

That alone, in order to obtain the permits to build the access road, cost tens of thousands of dollars which were not necessary.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2016, 12:35:53 am »
Where do you see it otherwise in the Constitution?  I am curious on the extrapolation that you have made that this is 'Commerce between the States'.


It's not me this is how the USSC has interpreted that particular clause in the Constitution. It's the oil and gas flowing between the states that gives the Fed's the power to regulate the wellhead....
By that interpretation, there is nothing the Fedgov cannot regulate. It is a dangerous misinterpretation of the law, imho. You realize that because water travels in cloud form before becoming precipitation, across state lines, even the food you grow in your garden from heirloom seed for personal consumption could be regulated under that interpretation?

It is overly broad.

Oil is found (by drilling) and produced in a specific location. It is only after the oil is out of the ground that it travels across state lines, either by rail, vessel, truck, or pipeline. While the government has reserved the right to regulate that commerce between states, that gives it no authority to regulate the production of the oil itself, provided that is not done on Federal Land.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline montanajoe

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2016, 12:43:19 am »

Are you serious or are you just trying to bait us?

Pard ...I'm just telling you the legal basis for the Federal Regulations.  :shrug:

Offline montanajoe

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2016, 12:54:32 am »

It is overly broad.


The USSC's interpretation of the Commerce Clause has been overly broad since FDR. But, underlying every Federal regulation there is a law passed by the Congress or a EO signed by a President. If folks want to change the regulations they need to change the people they have been voting for. Politicians being politicians constantly blame the Courts and "judge made" law but that is up to the elected officials to change bad law by enacting good law to begin with.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2016, 01:57:37 am »
Pard ...I'm just telling you the legal basis for the Federal Regulations.  :shrug:

There is a lot more mischief afoot if one adopts that line of reasoning.

I reject trying to hide behind 'The law of the Land' excuse.

Try it this way: let's figure out what is right, then let's just do it, and drag the unwilling along with us.



No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline thackney

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Re: Donald Trump's energy plan: Regulate less, drill more
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2016, 05:59:58 pm »
#energy

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