Author Topic: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump  (Read 3639 times)

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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2016, 01:15:28 pm »
Shout it out from the mountain tops!  Very well said.

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2016, 01:23:19 pm »
Kelo is the epitome of fascism which Donald Trump supports 100%. 

Willy Messerschmitt can keep ownership of his airplane factory as long as he keeps the government happy.  But when someone comes along that can influence the government with platitudes of how they can make better use of that property, it is perfectly OK to take that factory away from Willy and hand it over to the new crew.

This is fascism.   This is something Donald Trump supports 100% - the pretense of private property.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2016, 01:37:16 pm »
No, just being used. Their anger is allowing democrats manipulate them into harming America by attacking the Republican nominee which only helps the anti-Americans if it succeed, because it is suppressing voter turn out for the Republican.
That is so weird because I think you are being used by Trump.  I'm not listening to rats attack Trump.  I'm listening to men like Thomas Sowell, George Will, Ben Shapiro, Charlie Sykes, Brent Bozell, Mark Levin, Jonah Goldburg, Glenn Beck, National Review, and more.  The Republican nominee sucks.  He's not a Republican and IMO the party will be better off when Trump loses miserably in the general election, and the party returns to it's senses.

You may want to believe your just superior to all the people who fear a Trump Presidency, but remember those people also have a pretty low opinion of Trump supporters...and they're not spouting platitudes like "I'm for America" or "I'm against crime" or "I believe in bathing regularly" and pretending it is a thought out argument.  They are making solid arguments why Trump is unfit to be President.

Stick to posting your baby crying emoticon.  It's your best argument why I don't want to be a Trump supporter.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2016, 01:39:36 pm »
No, just being used. Their anger is allowing democrats manipulate them into harming America by attacking the Republican nominee which only helps the anti-Americans if it succeed, because it is suppressing voter turn out for the Republican.

No one is manipulating me.  I exercise critical thought.  I reach conclusions based upon the evidence presented.  Which is precisely why I do not support Donald Trump's quest for the Presidency.

Let's compare that to your approach.  As Doug Loss already pointed out, your belief that Trump will do everything you desire is not based upon any evidence.  When faced with this charge, someone who thinks critically would respond with said evidence.  Yet you did  not.  This indicates one of two things.  Either that such evidence is not important to you and that you are winging it purely on emotion, or that you know no such evidence exists and are openly offering an argument without evidence in an attempt to deceive others.

I'll go with critical thought every time, just as you abandon it.

Case in point - on another thread, you suggested that Judge Gonzalo Curiel be impeached.  When pressed repeatedly on what was the impeachable offense, you declined to respond.  In other words you reached a conclusion of impeachment based upon zero evidence.  And when faced with the truth of that, you pressed right on knowing that no such evidence existed.  In other words, you either lack the ability to think critically, or you lack integrity.  Which is it?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2016, 01:53:52 pm »
We should begin using the term "Consequentialist" to refer to the Trumpkins.

 Consequentialism is the class of normative ethical theories holding that the consequences of one's conduct are the ultimate basis for any judgment about the rightness or wrongness of that conduct.

In other words, because Hillary might become president,  we're wrong for not voting for Trump and there can be no justification otherwise for our not voting for Trump.  It is a morally relative stance but it is in keeping with Trump's own philosophy:  I'm a billionaire, therefore I'm a good person.

Reminds me of the liberal position of  "well, as long as nobody gets hurt, it's OK."  That's Trumpism and consequentialism.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2016, 02:04:04 pm »
That is so weird because I think you are being used by Trump.  I'm not listening to rats attack Trump.  I'm listening to men like Thomas Sowell, George Will, Ben Shapiro, Charlie Sykes, Brent Bozell, Mark Levin, Jonah Goldburg, Glenn Beck, National Review, and more.  The Republican nominee sucks.  He's not a Republican and IMO the party will be better off when Trump loses miserably in the general election, and the party returns to it's senses.

You may want to believe your just superior to all the people who fear a Trump Presidency, but remember those people also have a pretty low opinion of Trump supporters...and they're not spouting platitudes like "I'm for America" or "I'm against crime" or "I believe in bathing regularly" and pretending it is a thought out argument.  They are making solid arguments why Trump is unfit to be President.

Stick to posting your baby crying emoticon.  It's your best argument why I don't want to be a Trump supporter.


Amen.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2016, 02:19:02 pm »
That is so weird because I think you are being used by Trump.  I'm not listening to rats attack Trump.  I'm listening to men like Thomas Sowell, George Will, Ben Shapiro, Charlie Sykes, Brent Bozell, Mark Levin, Jonah Goldburg, Glenn Beck, National Review, and more.  The Republican nominee sucks.  He's not a Republican and IMO the party will be better off when Trump loses miserably in the general election, and the party returns to it's senses.

You may want to believe your just superior to all the people who fear a Trump Presidency, but remember those people also have a pretty low opinion of Trump supporters...and they're not spouting platitudes like "I'm for America" or "I'm against crime" or "I believe in bathing regularly" and pretending it is a thought out argument.  They are making solid arguments why Trump is unfit to be President.

Stick to posting your baby crying emoticon.  It's your best argument why I don't want to be a Trump supporter.


 :amen:


Also, I remember when Obama was just about doing the same crap in how everyone here was against it, but when Trump is doing the same crap as Obama, it is OK..
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2016, 02:36:58 pm »
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  24 May 2015
I would like to wish everyone, including all haters and losers (of which, sadly, there are many) a truly happy and enjoyable Memorial Day!
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2016, 02:44:37 pm »
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  24 May 2015
I would like to wish everyone, including all haters and losers (of which, sadly, there are many) a truly happy and enjoyable Memorial Day!

You really can't make this stuff up, anymore. Modern life is now imitating modern art.   
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 02:45:47 pm by andy58-in-nh »
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Oceander

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2016, 02:46:29 pm »
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  24 May 2015
I would like to wish everyone, including all haters and losers (of which, sadly, there are many) a truly happy and enjoyable Memorial Day!

Ridiculous little man.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2016, 02:50:07 pm »
Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump

No, Donald Trump isn’t a fascist. And the efforts of a considerable number of columnists, reporters, and even university professors to make him out to be a second Hitler or Mussolini testifies, I think, to their ignorance about fascism.

Even a fine scholar like the University of Maryland’s Jeffrey Herf, who begins by saying Trump is not a fascist, gives us a long discourse on the ways in which the Trump campaign resembles European fascists and Nazis: the cruelty of his language, his tendency to embrace conspiracy theories, and the theatrics of his rallies. So Herf, the best of the commentators I’ve read, says that while Trump isn’t actually a fascist, he’s got a lot in common with them, and there’s plenty to worry about. And Bret Stephens follows suit:
....


So, the argument is - he's not actually a fascist, he's just a lot like them?  I'm not thinking that's exactly a winning argument.

Oceander

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2016, 02:53:34 pm »
So, the argument is - he's not actually a fascist, he's just a lot like them?  I'm not thinking that's exactly a winning argument.

That's about the size of it.

Offline EtX

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2016, 04:02:04 pm »
Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump

No, Donald Trump isn’t a fascist. And the efforts of a considerable number of columnists, reporters, and even university professors to make him out to be a second Hitler or Mussolini testifies, I think, to their ignorance about fascism.

Even a fine scholar like the University of Maryland’s Jeffrey Herf, who begins by saying Trump is not a fascist, gives us a long discourse on the ways in which the Trump campaign resembles European fascists and Nazis: the cruelty of his language, his tendency to embrace conspiracy theories, and the theatrics of his rallies. So Herf, the best of the commentators I’ve read, says that while Trump isn’t actually a fascist, he’s got a lot in common with them, and there’s plenty to worry about. And Bret Stephens follows suit:

This is not a productive discussion. It has very little to do with fascism itself. For the most part, we hear about style, not ideas or ideology. We hear a lot about vulgarity, about the enthusiasm of crowds, and about threats to basic freedoms. All serious subjects, to be sure, but by making them reiterations of fascism (all the while saying they aren’t really fascism), we yank them from their proper context and make proper understanding of both fascism and our current crisis impossible.

Italian fascism, which came to power in 1922, was a war ideology. They argued that the country should be governed by the heroes of the First World War. The fascists fought violent socialist bands in the streets of Italy’s major cities (not so much a doctrinal conflict as a reaction to the Socialists’ opposition to the war). The street violence was not a monopoly of either fascists or Socialists, but characterized the whole society. Indeed, it characterized the whole continent. Remember that the Bolsheviks had seized power in Moscow, and were calling for global revolution. The Italian left was inspired by this revolutionary event, and fascism was in part a response to this threat.

This is not to say that fascism was purely a reaction to leftist revolutionary action, for there were radical leftists within the ranks of the Fascist Party, and the fascist movement claimed to be a revolutionary force that recognized the French Revolution as its spiritual inspiration. The “new fascist man” Mussolini claimed to represent was to usher in a new era of creativity, and welcome the diversity of national traditions.

This very important component, about which there is a substantial literature (starting with my doctoral thesis), believed that fascism was destined to triumph throughout the West. In the end, it thankfully failed, as Hitler redefined fascist objectives. Revolutionary fascism was gradually suppressed, and by the mid-1930s Mussolini’s regime had taken its well-known form: a totalitarian, anti-Communist and anti-democratic dictatorship.

That process took a decade, and throughout the ’20s there were efforts to “export” the fascist revolution throughout Europe.

There’s none of this in Trump, who’s anything but a revolutionary, and who does not purport to speak for military virtue, as Mussolini did. Nor does the current moment resemble Italy’s post-war crisis. We have not been humiliated on the battlefield, as the Italians were, nor have we been cheated in international negotiations, as the Italians felt they had been (they mostly blamed this on Woodrow Wilson). We certainly have our quota of political violence on both ends of the spectrum, but nothing like the organized militias the Europeans produced in the 1920s.

I’m not a Trump fan at all, but calling him a “fascist” distorts the history of the last century. If you’re looking for real fascists in the modern world, you’ll do better looking at the jihadis, who believe they’ve been tricked into previous defeats, unleash slaughter on those who oppose them, seek to dominate the world, and destroy free societies. Trump’s not one of those.

[From Forbes but has a wall, so here is a link to the cached page:
http://98.139.21.31/search/srpcache?p=why+Trump+is+not+a+populsit+facist&ei=UTF-8&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=why+Trump+is+not+a+populsit+facist&d=5042568014201745&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=Hr8Xab9MLkj1GEjmDultAKWgmksrpeeX&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=S_aGeHc5fAhLgVkd6euHQQ-- ]

Several other sources say the same thing:
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/12/trump-is-a-far-right-populist-not-a-fascist.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/donald-trump-fascist/424449/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/03/17/donald-trump-is-not-a-fascist-and-violence-is-nothing-new-in-ame/
Many more.

So stop it already...

One of your sources is Aljezzera? How apropos!

Offline EtX

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2016, 04:20:27 pm »
Ah, but you do support a group psychosis.  You somehow seem to believe that Trump will do everything you desire (forcing it upon America regardless of Congress or the people) and nothing you don't, with no evidence of that other than his belligerent slogans.  You and your ilk resemble nothing more than the Obama acolytes from 2008.  You bend the knee to the Big Man, not having any belief or trust in the people or the Constitution.

You stated the fact as true as could be said!  Orange is definitely the new black.  Hopey, Changey same old shite. Its the coming whimsical application of that which will be the hardest for America to survive.

Oceander

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2016, 04:22:27 pm »
You stated the fact as true as could be said!  Orange is definitely the new black.  Hopey, Changey same old shite. Its the coming whimsical application of that which will be the hardest for America to survive.





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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2016, 05:07:44 pm »
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump  24 May 2015
I would like to wish everyone, including all haters and losers (of which, sadly, there are many) a truly happy and enjoyable Memorial Day!

Well, he did have to put in the "haters and losers" bit, otherwise he would not have been wishing his supporters a happy Memorial Day.

After all, guys shouting "Go back to Auschwitz" or beating a homeless immigrant or sucker punching a protester...  are haters and losers.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 05:09:09 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline INVAR

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2016, 05:56:23 pm »
Ah, but you do support a group psychosis.  You somehow seem to believe that Trump will do everything you desire (forcing it upon America regardless of Congress or the people) and nothing you don't, with no evidence of that other than his belligerent slogans.  You and your ilk resemble nothing more than the Obama acolytes from 2008.  You bend the knee to the Big Man, not having any belief or trust in the people or the Constitution.

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2016, 06:08:30 pm »
If Trump isn't a fascist then why does he want to sue newspapers that say bad things against him??


Why does he want to shut down the internet??


If that isn't fascism then what is??

Not just the internet.  Not just against everyone he claims 'slanders' him.

"We’re going to get Apple to build their damn computers in this country instead of other countries."

American companies should not be free to manufacture wherever they choose.

‘Free trade is good. But we have to do it [force them back to the US]. Or we won’t have a country left,’ said Trump.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/01/19/donald-trump-to-make-america-poorer-by-getting-apple-to-make-their-damn-computers-in-the-us/#434f4329359e

Or his plan to impose a 35% surtax on all American businesses that manufacture products or get their products to manufacture overseas - like Ford Trucks for example.

PURE 1922 MUSSOLINI FASCISM
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2016, 08:06:57 pm »
I can see no difference in your conduct and that of the democrats

Democrats likely support a democrat candidate.  I don't.

Your power of observation is, therefore, impotent.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Who's A Fascist? Not Donald Trump
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2016, 08:10:26 pm »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.