Author Topic: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?  (Read 7906 times)

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Offline OldSaltUSN

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2016, 03:27:32 am »
I agree, though Trump's not my first choice, I think border security is essential. That is his mainstay of support. The whole Southwest is undergoing a demographic change which in itself, I don't mind but when it means more Democratic votes, it's worrisome, New Mexico, Texas, California, soon Arizona all to be minority majority states.

In turn, I think Governor Walker has done well in Wisconsin, needs to straighten out a few rough edges. Has enacted a lot of pro-life legislation among of course, his other well-known feats.

Basically in agreement.   Problem is, Trump won't do anything like what he's said he'll do.  The closest expectation I have for Trump is "pay to play", with his kids holding the collection box.  It's his history.

I'd vote for Walker right now, if he was on the ballot.  If I'm ticked off at Cruz, Walker and some of the others about anything is that they could have joined forces and consolidated the conservative vote easily in January, but did not, for whatever reason.  Rubio has proven himself a hopeless little wuss, holding out until it was too late for anyone to fight Trump's momentum.   (Kasich, of course, is nothing other than an..um... lady of the evening without virtue.)

Anyhow, that's water over the bridge at this point ....

Offline sitetest

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2016, 03:42:08 am »
Redirect.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,209068.msg902243.html#msg902243

Half-truth's are half lies.  Implying that EITHER Trump OR Romney were like Reagan, because Reagan signed a law that was later "reinterpreted" and abused to kill 100's of thousands of infants, is dishonest.  What Reagan did was similar to what happened when Nixon signed law creating the EPA.  Yes, Nixon was an establishment "moderate", but neither he nor the Congress that passed the EPA legislation had any inkling that it would be used to confiscate property of farmers, ranchers, other citizens who's been told that the tiny pond, stream, watering hole, or other water on their property was part of the "navigable waterways" governed by theh EPA's mandate. 

Reagan was anti-abortion, even when he signed that 1967 law.  He just didn't envision the implications of allowing a future generation which argued the meaning of the word "is", a foot in the door to abort future generations of Americans.

No, Romney was a pro-abortion, pro-single-payer healtcare progressive, so is Trump, but Reagan was not - ever - that - progressive - politician.

When people use Reagan to justify their own progressive candidate, it's because their candidate's credentials "obviously" cannot stand on their own.   No one needs to associate Cruz to Reagan, for one easy example, when Cruz supports the same conservative values Reagan did, and has done so consistently.

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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2016, 04:19:21 am »
Bttt

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2016, 06:58:20 am »
Redirect.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,209068.msg902243.html#msg902243

Half-truth's are half lies.  Implying that EITHER Trump OR Romney were like Reagan, because Reagan signed a law that was later "reinterpreted" and abused to kill 100's of thousands of infants, is dishonest.  What Reagan did was similar to what happened when Nixon signed law creating the EPA.  Yes, Nixon was an establishment "moderate", but neither he nor the Congress that passed the EPA legislation had any inkling that it would be used to confiscate property of farmers, ranchers, other citizens who's been told that the tiny pond, stream, watering hole, or other water on their property was part of the "navigable waterways" governed by theh EPA's mandate. 

Reagan was anti-abortion, even when he signed that 1967 law.  He just didn't envision the implications of allowing a future generation which argued the meaning of the word "is", a foot in the door to abort future generations of Americans.

No, Romney was a pro-abortion, pro-single-payer healtcare progressive, so is Trump, but Reagan was not - ever - that - progressive - politician.

When people use Reagan to justify their own progressive candidate, it's because their candidate's credentials "obviously" cannot stand on their own.   No one needs to associate Cruz to Reagan, for one easy example, when Cruz supports the same conservative values Reagan did, and has done so consistently.

I really don't know what the left hopes to accomplish using Reagan as some "well your conservative idol did it too!" excuse. I mean, literally anyone with access to a search engine can get the whole story in seconds of minimal applied effort.

I guess they are so used to simply believing what they hear from their handlers that they think everyone is likewise inclined to groupthink.

But alas, history exists and their concocted propaganda cannot stand the sunlight.

Offline WAC

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2016, 07:02:06 am »
We should have started this race over a long time ago!!!






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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2016, 07:08:33 am »
I'm concerned about Conservatism itself. This actually didn't start with Trump, he is just a shyster capitalizing on it. This is a split that has been happening with Conservatives for a while- the split between actual limited government, it is not your money, it is none of your business Conservatives and those of the authoritarian mindset who want to use a hammer to force their beliefs. It is the difference between philosophical conservatives and issues conservatives.

This is the difference between those who are horrified at anyone on their side uttering the word 'force' and those who cheer it.

Well said.

Offline don-o

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2016, 12:23:05 pm »
Said poster seemed to say we could vote for the first conservative in 40 years; guess what, Reagan signed pro-abortion legislation but some people may just stick to their shallow weak fabricated position.

I see this has been repeated several times on the thread. Let's have a look - folks should know this already...
Quote
Nonetheless, he signed the bill. Reagan and his staff calculated that if he vetoed the bill, his veto would be overridden by the state legislature. Therefore, he decided to do what he could to make the bill less harmful, arguing for the insertion of certain language that eliminated its worst features and allowed for abortion only in rare cases — such as rape or incest, or where pregnancy would gravely impair the physical or mental health of the mother.

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Reagan was shocked at the unintended consequences of his action. Morris said Reagan was left with an “undefinable sense of guilt” after watching abortions skyrocket. Cannon claims this was “the only time as governor or president that Reagan acknowledged a mistake on major legislation.” Clark called the incident “perhaps Reagan’s greatest disappointment in public life.”

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Reagan would later denounce abortion so strongly and so frequently from the Oval Office that Bill Clark has compiled a 45-page document of Reagan’s quotes on abortion, collected from the official Presidential Papers. Reagan even authored a small book — Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation, featuring contributions from Bill Clark, Malcolm Muggeridge, and Mother Teresa — that was published by the Human Life Foundation in 1984. White House moderates wanted Reagan to delay publication until after the 1984 election, fearing it would turn off pro-choice Republicans, but Reagan refused. He would not be burned again on abortion. No more compromises.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/223437/reagans-darkest-hour-paul-kengor-patricia-clark-doerner
 

Offline sitetest

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2016, 12:48:47 pm »
I see this has been repeated several times on the thread. Let's have a look - folks should know this already...
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/223437/reagans-darkest-hour-paul-kengor-patricia-clark-doerner
Excellent post.  But the lying scum will be back with their slander and smears of President Ronald Wilson Reagan.
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2016, 02:59:14 pm »
I really don't know what the left hopes to accomplish using Reagan as some "well your conservative idol did it too!" excuse. I mean, literally anyone with access to a search engine can get the whole story in seconds of minimal applied effort.

I guess they are so used to simply believing what they hear from their handlers that they think everyone is likewise inclined to groupthink.

But alas, history exists and their concocted propaganda cannot stand the sunlight.

Because people WANT to believe that about Reagan because it makes them feel justified in supporting their candidate.  Plus, and this is the situation I find myself in sometimes, there is an overwhelming amount of information to know and/or learn and remember.  Add to that, there is so much contradictory info out there that it is hard sometimes to know the truth.  So, people are expected (legitimately) to know what they don't know, research it, verify that it's from a reputable source and then remember.  Nah, too hard, tbey'll let someone else just tell them what they should believe.  I have decided for myself that that is unacceptable.

Offline Doug Loss

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2016, 12:02:44 am »
I see more than a few posters on this thread who are moaning, "Everything is lost, woe for us all, nothing can be done!"  If that's what you truly believe, at least don't try to impede those of us who refuse to accept your claims of defeat before the battle is joined.  There are those of us who will keep working to return America to constitutionality even in the face of those who can do nothing more than wring their hands about the problem.
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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2016, 12:51:36 am »
Shabbat Shalom. 

Belatedly to you as well...  ^-^

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I guess I could be spending the time of rest more wisely than discussing politics also.

 :shrug: To each their own - I am not your judge, brother. It is the blessing of Shabbat that I prefer to focus upon.... Peace and family, and real, reserved time with our Father. It's addictive for me... more addictive, and more desired, even than talking with my fellows here.

And a most excellent Havdalah ~ For the first time ever (barring greater family events), My two sons and I sat together at a diner and had a wonderful dinner. Peacefully, with much happiness and laughter. Something so long yearned after has come to pass. A miracle, really! YHWH is good...

And so I am happy to have left y'all to duke it out here.  :beer:

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2016, 02:38:33 am »
Proves to me that the only thing that the TEA Party had in common was "anti-Obama".  In fact, I credit the "big tent" of the Tea Party for bringing us the "Trump the Messiah" supporters.  Christian social conservatives united with Libertarians, who united with GOP economic conservatives, who united with Reagan Democrats, giving us the wonderful blended stew, which Obama united with GOP-e regulars to kill off using direct government action and combined with direct cooperation by GOP-e politicians holding top Congressional leadership positions.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Maybe it's just here in the West, but TEA Party activists that I personally know (regionally) are exactly the grassroots Cruzers. How do you think he got so many informed politically active people to run the board for him in delegates? How do you think they were politically astute enough to continue to run up the delegate count after Cruz suspended his campaign... Having a secondary duty plainly mapped out before them to have voting power in the convention toward the platform and rules? The Christian Right doesn't have that kind of political moxy.

The TEA Party folks are dang close to the Reagan Coalition - to the point of being exactly the same factional groups (albeit that DEFCONS don't have much of a presence as such).

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This is America 2016, folks.  It's real.  It's not going to get better in a few months or years.  We're going to go down hard, before we can pick ourselves back up.   There has been one, exactly one, country that I can think of which has done this, and it's the country of Israel, as Biblically prophesied right down to the year.  I know of no such prophesy about America.  Doesn't mean I don't hope things turn around, but I don't expect it.

Then I suggest you go back to the Book and study sommore. Especially the promises toward Joseph/[Ephraim and Manasseh] and their impact upon end times battles. They have to be present, even now - They have to be large among the gentiles - a nation and a group of nations - They have armies and weapons, and participate in those ending battles. Christians find it all too easy to forget there were 13 tribes of Israel standing below Sinai in Arabia. Only the nation state of Judah (two of those tribes) are present in Israel today. the whole House of Israel is yet to come in.

That isn't to say that America IS unarguably Israel, but there is far, far more afoot than Christian prophecy interpretation can see.

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2016, 03:33:38 am »
Cute little ditty. 

Ain't it though?

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You're talking like a Trumpkin if you're calling myself, Norm, and others like us, quitters and losers.   

All y'all are my political and largely philosophical brethren - I respect the opinions upon this thread as highly as any others - Certainly over the years, more so than any average far-right blogger. 

But all this whining and crying and throwing dirt in the air is sure as hell beneath y'all.

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My position is quite simple.  "Get over it", as you said.  The GOP is lost.  The "conservative movement" has been eviscerated. 

Quit concatenating 'GOP' and 'Republican' with Conservatism. That much has not been true for better than a decade. The Conservative movement is largely standing outside of the Republican party, and has been for years.

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In military terms, we foot soldiers answered the call to battle, fought the war and fought it well.  We left it all on the field, only to have our "leaders" forward turn over their swords to the enemy, and abandon the field, while our "compatriots" to our rear, directed "friendly" artillery on our own positions.   

To dial your analogy down to something I have more experience with: When you are laying on the bar floor, having been kicked in the teeth, it's exactly the wrong time to give up the fight - The next kick is coming, sure as God made little green apples. You better move your ass and get in every lick you can. And more than once in my life, I have been in that position, and got pissed off enough to do it, and tore the bar down.

It ain't over till it's over, and it grieves me to see such erudite minds throwing in the towel - and that just when we find a place of refuge where we could reconnoiter.

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If Palin, for example, felt compelled to support Trump as the only effective alternative to Trump, and then went back to Wasilla to wait out the action, I could understand, given what she's been through.  But she's enthusiastically joining the "Lyin Ted" Trumpkin train.   People who
supposedly "had our backs" fired at our backs.

Sorry, but my opinion has always been less than most wrt Palin - She was ever the populist, and I would submit the same siren song came out of her that came out of Trump. I know that at last, Pissant jumped the shark (his final comments were atrocious) - But he was right about Palin in great measure, as we all can see now.

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We're saying "no mas".  Not playin' by your rules anymore.   I can't tell you how many conservatives have opted for new cold weather retirement homes, like Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Oklahoma, and so forth, FLEEING THE INSANITY that this country has become.  I'm talking about fighters, too, both military combat veterans as well as civilian veterans of the cultural wars.  We've chosen an organized retreat, and to protect our families, over some quixotic battle to restore this once conservative country back to a Constitutional Republic.

I'm already here in MT, in the Flathead Valley - I probably know more about it than you do. That doesn't mean you quit fighting. Do BOTH.


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As Norm has alluded, and I have previously written, it takes considerable personal privation to turn this culture around, and in my Judeo-Christian perspective, nothing but a turn towards historic Christian ethics will make a difference.  The change has to happen in the personal, not simply the economic, philosophical, or political.   I don't see that happening in this country any time soon, and neither, I believe, does Norm.

Well the banks are ready to fall down in a fashion that is epic in scale - And no one can save them this time. Privation is at our door, even now. So regardless of the election, your prayers are soon to be answered.

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If the Constitutional Party makes a run at it, if Ted Cruz, for example, suddenly became the standard bearer (and there are others who could do it), I'd be on board with both feet.   Otherwise, I'm going to make my vote count to hurt Donald and his supporters.   

(Social Conservatives + TEA Party Patriots) + Constitution Party == CHOICE.
But all y'all are content to sit on the sidelines and cry about it. It's going to take a monumental action to kick the Constitution Party in it's a$$ and make it's lungs work... They need to be properly vetted. They need grassroots uprising, they need connections to big donors and endorsements (Pro-Life, GOA, etc) - They need to be hauled up out of the cheap seats and put front-and-center.

That's ALL the stuff of online activism... That's the kind of stuff of old school FReeper fame. It's what we DO. But all y'all have got to WANT IT - It's a Bonsai run, no doubt - But it will never ever happen if the most adamantine among us don't have the stones for it. If no one will come together with a plan and encourage the rest, all is for naught.

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If you call that "quitting", so be it.   I call it orderly retreat, consolidating forces, redirecting fire, and "going to ground" in the face of forces with superior numbers.

America was won with 30% of the people in favor. We've got way more than that.
Get up and push. We need a plan and we need it now.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2016, 03:44:57 am »
I agree, though Trump's not my first choice, I think border security is essential. That is his mainstay of support. The whole Southwest is undergoing a demographic change which in itself, I don't mind but when it means more Democratic votes, it's worrisome, New Mexico, Texas, California, soon Arizona all to be minority majority states.

Trump is no choice at all. You will get no border security, and you will get no wall. I simply cannot believe how many people that 2-bit shyster liberal can lead down the garden path. There is a reason why we should put principles before pragmatism - And Trump is the veritable poster child for why pragmatism never works.

Offline don-o

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2016, 02:20:48 pm »
All y'all are my political and largely philosophical brethren - I respect the opinions upon this thread as highly as any others - Certainly over the years, more so than any average far-right blogger.

 

 

Catching up on the thread, and I must remark how good it is to see old and new friends engaging in good spirited debate with mindfulness of civility. I have gotten context clues that discussion of "social"  issues are worrisome to some of the old timers here. It is incumbent upon us noobs to demonstrate by our posting, that such can be had w/o flame war.


Offline don-o

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #90 on: May 30, 2016, 02:25:58 pm »
Trump is no choice at all. You will get no border security, and you will get no wall. I simply cannot believe how many people that 2-bit shyster liberal can lead down the garden path. There is a reason why we should put principles before pragmatism - And Trump is the veritable poster child for why pragmatism never works.

That is a philosophical concept that I only recently took the time to research. The connation, at least for me, of the word did not match up of that it actually is.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #91 on: May 30, 2016, 04:36:59 pm »
I see more than a few posters on this thread who are moaning, "Everything is lost, woe for us all, nothing can be done!"  If that's what you truly believe, at least don't try to impede those of us who refuse to accept your claims of defeat before the battle is joined.  There are those of us who will keep working to return America to constitutionality even in the face of those who can do nothing more than wring their hands about the problem.

'Before the battle is joined'?????  Look sir, we have been fighting this 'civic' war for decades.  This election circus is not the first battle we have fought and we have ample evidence to prove that doing the same exact thing every election cycle has done nothing to preserve or protect the Constitution from it's imposed irrelevance.  Some of us warriors know the reality of the ground and the situation we are faced with.  Another political 'Pickett's Charge' is not an option we are going to allow ourselves the false hope and comfort of believing will succeed.  Electing someone to high office is not going to stop where we have arrived, unless you believe that the Executive is a monarchy or dictatorship that if we just get the 'right guy in there' is going to magically return us to a Constitutional Republic.

The fact is, if you think you can vote out lawless tyrants from power, remove an institutionalized corrupt tyranny or stop where this velvet coup has taken us by casting a ballot in November, you have already lost the whole war.   

History teaches with utter clarity that you cannot stop a corrupt institutionalized tyranny via civil means.  And that sir, is the extent by which this people by and large will even allow their minds to go in terms of defending what remains of their liberties.  For me, I have no faith or belief in the system this oligarchy and dictatorship has corrupted for itself.  I no longer believe the ballot box is a means to restrain Mordor on the Potomac, given the Cook-County corruption that has gone national.  We are looking at the other necessities that will be required of us to hold onto what remains of our liberties.  That's not surrender - that is realizing that fighting a war on the enemy's terms and grounds is no longer an option we are going to partake in.  We're going to do something different.

Some of us are way ahead of where most folks are in terms of physical and mental preparation for what will be required in the near future if we want to survive the consequences of what has ALREADY been done to us. 

If Thomas Jefferson were alive - he would tell us, that a government that holds us in contempt and disdain that wields the power it does today because it no longer fears us people is a tyranny.  Our mindsets are involved in contemplating regimens required to retain what liberty we have left, is to make them fear - TRULY FEAR, we the people again.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 04:58:21 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline don-o

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #92 on: May 30, 2016, 04:44:23 pm »
'Before the battle is joined'?????  Look sir, we have been fighting this 'civic' war for decades.   
Just posted - perhaps for additional conversation.


Neoconservatives, #Nevertrump, & the Death of Conservatism

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,209445.0.html

Offline PoloSec

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #93 on: May 30, 2016, 05:08:47 pm »
Many things about trump irritate me to no end but the thing that aggravates me the most is when he calls him self a conservative; that is a glaring bold faced lie.  In lying word and action trump is a living, breathing stand up mockery of Constitutional Conservatism!
That's what I think, and what I know is the evidence is overwhelming.
Facts, Reason, Logic and Common Sense when consistently applied ultimately leads to the proper conclusion!  It worked for our Founding Fathers.

Offline don-o

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #94 on: May 30, 2016, 05:25:36 pm »
Many things about trump irritate me to no end but the thing that aggravates me the most is when he calls him self a conservative; that is a glaring bold faced lie.  In lying word and action trump is a living, breathing stand up mockery of Constitutional Conservatism!
That's what I think, and what I know is the evidence is overwhelming.

Go to the link I posted in 93. Basically, the very word "conservative" is all up in the air these days. I would gain respect for Trump if he would admit,

"Look. Conservative / liberal have nothing to do with getting the job done. "

And stop bamboozling the people by even using the term.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #95 on: May 30, 2016, 05:48:56 pm »
Have any of you fine erudite ladies and gentlemen considered or actually run for local office?

Offline Doug Loss

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #96 on: May 30, 2016, 07:44:06 pm »
'Before the battle is joined'?????  Look sir, we have been fighting this 'civic' war for decades.  This election circus is not the first battle we have fought and we have ample evidence to prove that doing the same exact thing every election cycle has done nothing to preserve or protect the Constitution from it's imposed irrelevance.  Some of us warriors know the reality of the ground and the situation we are faced with.  Another political 'Pickett's Charge' is not an option we are going to allow ourselves the false hope and comfort of believing will succeed.  Electing someone to high office is not going to stop where we have arrived, unless you believe that the Executive is a monarchy or dictatorship that if we just get the 'right guy in there' is going to magically return us to a Constitutional Republic.

The fact is, if you think you can vote out lawless tyrants from power, remove an institutionalized corrupt tyranny or stop where this velvet coup has taken us by casting a ballot in November, you have already lost the whole war.   

History teaches with utter clarity that you cannot stop a corrupt institutionalized tyranny via civil means.  And that sir, is the extent by which this people by and large will even allow their minds to go in terms of defending what remains of their liberties.  For me, I have no faith or belief in the system this oligarchy and dictatorship has corrupted for itself.  I no longer believe the ballot box is a means to restrain Mordor on the Potomac, given the Cook-County corruption that has gone national.  We are looking at the other necessities that will be required of us to hold onto what remains of our liberties.  That's not surrender - that is realizing that fighting a war on the enemy's terms and grounds is no longer an option we are going to partake in.  We're going to do something different.

Some of us are way ahead of where most folks are in terms of physical and mental preparation for what will be required in the near future if we want to survive the consequences of what has ALREADY been done to us. 

If Thomas Jefferson were alive - he would tell us, that a government that holds us in contempt and disdain that wields the power it does today because it no longer fears us people is a tyranny.  Our mindsets are involved in contemplating regimens required to retain what liberty we have left, is to make them fear - TRULY FEAR, we the people again.

If you want to give up, go ahead.  Just don't expect the rest of us to follow you into unending despair.  Just don't get in our way when we are doing the hard work needed to repair our country.  Oh, and you seem to be making unwarranted assumptions about what I think that hard work is.  When did I ever talk about anything that smacks of "fighting the war on the enemy's terms?"  It's just that your "all is lost" attitude is both irritating any unhelpful.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 07:45:18 pm by Doug Loss »
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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #97 on: May 30, 2016, 08:40:14 pm »
Catching up on the thread, and I must remark how good it is to see old and new friends engaging in good spirited debate with mindfulness of civility. I have gotten context clues that discussion of "social"  issues are worrisome to some of the old timers here. It is incumbent upon us noobs to demonstrate by our posting, that such can be had w/o flame war.

I hear you don-o. And my apologies if I am pokin' people too hard - It is my seemingly vain attempt to remind folks that the truths that we stand upon - If they are indeed truths - Those truths are always worth fighting for. The only thing that keeps our banner from laying upon the ground are the hands that hold it up... If that ain't us, then who shall it be?

It can quite readily be likened to the Israelites standing at the borders of Canaan, listening to the report of the spies.
Would that we would all be more like Joshua. After all, if YHWH be for us, who can stand against us?


And in defense, I might point out that the topical flow of this conversation is not 'social conservatism' per se, but rather Conservatism itself as a whole - I would be more inclined to use my 'inside voice' if approaching social conservative internals (denominational differences, etc).

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #98 on: May 30, 2016, 08:47:38 pm »
I hear you don-o. And my apologies if I am pokin' people too hard - It is my seemingly vain attempt to remind folks that the truths that we stand upon - If they are indeed truths - Those truths are always worth fighting for. The only thing that keeps our banner from laying upon the ground are the hands that hold it up... If that ain't us, then who shall it be?

It can quite readily be likened to the Israelites standing at the borders of Canaan, listening to the report of the spies.
Would that we would all be more like Joshua. After all, if YHWH be for us, who can stand against us?


And in defense, I might point out that the topical flow of this conversation is not 'social conservatism' per se, but rather Conservatism itself as a whole - I would be more inclined to use my 'inside voice' if approaching social conservative internals (denominational differences, etc).
roamer_1, I appreciate your optimism even while I don't share it currently.   I think it's good  that you have some folks reminding us not to lose heart, even while others take a different view.  We need each other,
Former Republican.

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Re: Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?
« Reply #99 on: May 30, 2016, 08:56:15 pm »
[roamer_1:] [...] why pragmatism never works.

That is a philosophical concept that I only recently took the time to research. The connation, at least for me, of the word did not match up of that it actually is.

Indeed - when has it ever won the day? And if it ever did, what could it render but a Pyrrhic victory in it's wake?
At best, in a less politically-correct environment, it could be better defined by 'appeasement', which can only be the hallmark of cowardice...

And at worst, a conscious  attempted debridement of principle - The short-sighted perhaps cannot see that such cannot be a debridement, as truths can never become dead - Thus the attempt is necessarily cutting away that which is lively and vital - The arterial spray of compromise.