Can Social Conservatism Survive Trump?

[Norm Lenhart]

I cannot dismiss the pessimism out of hand. Yet, even during the decay that gained foothold in the 60's, and has marched forward with mostly token resistance (Dear Pres Reagan, WHY Poppy Bush??!) intermediary institutions and associations have been springing up - Hillsdale College, homeschoolers. still free info access via internet. These are not of zero value.

AND, my son is training to fly striker jet fighters.

Oh I agree. They are most assuredly of GREAT value... To the handful of us that believe in America.

They are 'the problem' to/for the majority of the current 'thing' that is called 'America' and the leftists who destroyed the real thing. And when this cluster!@#$ collapses, their skills and mentality will be the greatest of assets to the America that rises up from the ashes.

[INVAR]

To answer the OP as to whether or not Conservatism can survive Trump - I again opine that the answer is : NO.

It will be redefined to mean and be something entirely different than what many foundational Conservatives understand and believe it to be, same as everything else in our society has been. Orwell was indeed prophetic because all of the ism's of the last century have completely rewritten our history and culture to fit into narratives that continue to destroy and fundamentally transform the country.

A people that cannot even agree on what the definition of liberty is, and who do not trust you with it - are not going to agree on what the definition of Conservatism is.  It will be perverted into something else, just as our culture and country have been perverted.

A vibrantly moral and religious people would never have permitted this to happen, but then again - the moral and religious have been become as ignorant of their scriptures and religion as the populace became ignorant of the Constitution.  Plain words no longer mean what they say.  Words and ideas that do not appear in text are treated as gospel.  Perception, precedent and tradition are reality.   Just ask a Millennial what the First Amendment is and you will probably get "Separation of church and state" even though those words or the concept does not exist there in the BoR.   Immaterial.  Perception is reality and the ignorance of what founded us becomes lost under the redefinitions.  The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are suffering the same fate as the bible did. 

Scripture states 'My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge' (Hosea 4:6) and it a prophetic reminder that a people unmoored and grown ignorant from what established them in order to embrace a current reality that is wholly anathema to what founded them, will allow themselves to be destroyed. 

We do not have to look at scripture to see that point realized.  We can look to history.   Every single Republic went the way we are going, until all of them fell into mob-rule, anarchy, dictatorship and ruin.  We're arrogant to think that cannot happen here, or is not happening.

First Principles have to be taught and accepted.  The biblical faith and religion has to be relearned, practiced and held paramount in the society or the entire argument over whether or not liberty will survive - much less Conservatism, is moot.

Electing someone to the top spot is not going to make that happen, EVER.  As a people, we first have to be governed by God and First Principles without exception or excuse. Only then can we expect representatives and leaders we vote for to be governed by the same without exception or excuse.  Human nature's lust for money and power can only be restrained by one thing: biblical morality.

[roamer_1]

I'm less optimistic than you are. 

Like Norm, see just above...

All was lost... 40 years of Progressive control of everything. Then Reagan.
BOOM, Baby.

Don't let the bastards grind you down, man.

[Norm Lenhart]

Y'all need to put yourself in the mindset of the Carter Malaise, and go read Limbaugh's 'See, I told you so'...

Actually I just need to keep doing what I'm doing preparing my kid for the liberal hell she's going to spend her life in thanks to gutless 'right wingers' and their pals on the hard left.

[Norm Lenhart]

Like Norm, see just above...

All was lost... 40 years of Progressive control of everything. Then Reagan.
BOOM, Baby.

Don't let the bastards grind you down, man.

Look at what our fellow "conservatives' just did to the closest thing to Reagan in 30 years and tell me that again with a straight face.

[INVAR]

Like Norm, see just above...

All was lost... 40 years of Progressive control of everything. Then Reagan.
BOOM, Baby.

This nation is not of the same character of people that elected Reagan twice in landslides.

[roamer_1]

Actually I just need to keep doing what I'm doing preparing my kid for the liberal hell she's going to spend her life in thanks to gutless 'right wingers' and their pals on the hard left.

So what, you can't multi-task?

[INVAR]

They are 'the problem' to/for the majority of the current 'thing' that is called 'America' and the leftists who destroyed the real thing. And when this cluster!@#$ collapses, their skills and mentality will be the greatest of assets to the America that rises up from the ashes.

Will it?

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it". - John Adams, July 7th, 1775 - letter to Abigail

[Norm Lenhart]

So what, you can't multi-task?

I choose not to continue to tilt at windmills. People have clearly expressed their desire for self destruction and I think they should have the freedom to Darwin themselves so that few to none remain to get in the way of our children rebuilding all that the idiots before them destroyed.

[Norm Lenhart]

Will it?

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it". - John Adams, July 7th, 1775 - letter to Abigail

Maybe, maybe not. But there is a chance. Today as it stands with leftists rampant in America, there is none.

[roamer_1]

Look at what our fellow "conservatives' just did to the closest thing to Reagan in 30 years and tell me that again with a straight face.

Quite easily with a straight face. Go hang out on a Christian Forum... This was hardly even a bump in their road. They ain't even paying attention yet.

It is easy to forget, with our passion for politics, That most of our kind are busy just holding down the fort.

I don't know how it is by you, but up here, IRL, I know of only two people who are going to vote for Orange Julius. Out of hundreds, I know TWO.

There's a whole lot of people looking for an otherwise.

[don-o]

CANNOT restrain myself....Must post

[sitetest]

Like Norm, see just above...

All was lost... 40 years of Progressive control of everything. Then Reagan.
BOOM, Baby.

Don't let the bastards grind you down, man.

You're optimism is uplifting and refreshing.

[mystery-ak]

This nation is not of the same character of people that elected Reagan twice in landslides.

Very very true....

[roamer_1]

This nation is not of the same character of people that elected Reagan twice in landslides.

This nation, that just four years ago filled the state houses with TEA Party Patriots?

[Norm Lenhart]

Quite easily with a straight face. Go hang out on a Christian Forum... This was hardly even a bump in their road. They ain't even paying attention yet.

It is easy to forget, with our passion for politics, That most of our kind are busy just holding down the fort.

I don't know how it is by you, but up here, IRL, I know of only two people who are going to vote for Orange Julius. Out of hundreds, I know TWO.

There's a whole lot of people looking for an otherwise.

I live in the hardest right county left in AZ. I have family that spends a lot of time in church activities. Even here we are flooded with people dropping blotter of Orange Sunshine.

The problem isn't Trump. The Problem wasn't Romney. Nor Mitch, nor Ryan, nor Bhoner, nor Obama, Nor Hillary, Nor Sanders.

The problem is just what that foreign journalist nailed years ago. It's the people that would elect them. And all the optimism in the world does not alter the cold hard reality that despite enclaves of sanity, we are massively overwhelmed by the people that DID elect such people and see their 'pragmatic choice' as a virtue to be aspired to rather than the capitulation to evil that it is.

[Norm Lenhart]

This nation, that just four years ago filled the state houses with TEA Party Patriots?

Wrong. Those 'patriots' elected ANYTHING other than what was there. Which is a step in the right direction TO A POINT. The problem was that they didn't do their homework AT ALL on the morons they elected who went and got pragmatic once in DC.

Did they defend marriage? No. Did they stop Bhoner and mitch from giving away the store? No.

They DEFENDED THEM.

[roamer_1]

[...] we are massively overwhelmed by the people that DID elect such people and see their 'pragmatic choice' as a virtue to be aspired to rather than the capitulation to evil that it is.

So therein you would likewise capitulate forthwith? I do not understand how you can square that with your stalwart views.

[INVAR]

This nation, that just four years ago filled the state houses with TEA Party Patriots?

You mean the same ones who couldn't get an actual Conservative like Cruz into the nomination because they were so easily divided by 16 other lesser Conservative choices?

And how many of those TEA Party Representatives have already shown their true Establishment colors?

I'm sorry, but culturally - we are not the same people who put Reagan into the White House twice in landslides.

Homo marriage and taking Commandments out of Courthouses would never have flown back then and I'm pretty sure the Kardashians would be relegated to nothing but a perverted side show in the seedy part of Vegas.

[roamer_1]

Wrong. Those 'patriots' elected ANYTHING other than what was there. Which is a step in the right direction TO A POINT. The problem was that they didn't do their homework AT ALL on the morons they elected who went and got pragmatic once in DC.

Hold the phone, Norm. I get it that we didn't get a lot of Conservatives. And I get that many betrayed the cause. But the Liberty Caucus in the house went from 20some to 50some...

And they DID stand in the breach. They DID stand to defend. They are nearly a force to be reckoned with.
And many of the state houses are likewise rebelling.

All is not lost... Unless we do capitulate.
That ain't in my nature.

[Norm Lenhart]

So therein you would likewise capitulate forthwith? I do not understand how you can square that with your stalwart views.

Easily.

Once you accept, as I have that this is a war, then you think like a soldier. Strategically.

Now we can rah rah all we want, but the bottom line is that there are 220,000,000 of them and maybe on a good day, 15,000,000 of us.  In reality, the number of people actually worth a crap in probably in the 6 figure range to be optimistic.

So is that army going to win? When the opposition controls every means of assault? Media, office, perception, education?

Sun Tzu was a smart guy. You attack where and when the enemy is weak.

So what actual good do we do? what is to be gained by suicidal frontal assaults? None.

On the other hand, what is to be gained by solidifying whats left of our army and rebuilding? The world.

The problem people on both sides is that people think this is all TV where Danny Tanner teaches the twins a life lesson i one half hour episode and then all is beautiful. But it isn't TV. And this mess was created over two full generations. It is not going to be solved in one election, two elections or any elections.

It is not going to be solved until we outnumber them.

Today and for many many years going forward, we are not going to outnumber them. We are not going to convert them. We are not going to retrain, reeducate or re-anything them. They HAVE MADE THEIR CHOICE. Period. End of. Finito.

Whatever Damascus conversions happen will add few to our team. Few, as in 'not very many'. WE are the proble. The people alive today. WE have the Boomer mindset of entitlement and that includes my GenX. We think that TV is life. We thing things get solved yesterday because we BELIEVE.

Well they don't. Because world history exists. And that history teaches us we are at the end of the empire. It will be followed by chaos, collapse, death, pestilence, all the bad parts of the Bible. And all the bad parts of History as societies crumble.

Denying it is a fruitless exercise because history simply does not care and America isn't unique and 'beyond' history's lessons. None of us want to face that. We are in massive denial, stomping our widdle fweets and screaming 'I'M A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!!!"

We arent. We do however have a choice. We can either devote ourselves to preparing our kids to survive until liberalism kills itself off literally and rebuild or we can throw in the towel.

I think long term. I understand that our chances to fix this are long gone. So I can either throw the towel or as above, prepare my kid fo carry on the idea and ideals of America and thus have a chance to rebuild once the idiots of our generations are gone.

[Norm Lenhart]

Hold the phone, Norm. I get it that we didn't get a lot of Conservatives. And I get that many betrayed the cause. But the Liberty Caucus in the house went from 20some to 50some...

And they DID stand in the breach. They DID stand to defend. They are nearly a force to be reckoned with.
And many of the state houses are likewise rebelling.

All is not lost... Unless we do capitulate.
That ain't in my nature.

How many of them voted Bhoner back in as Speaker?

[Norm Lenhart]

You mean the same ones who couldn't get an actual Conservative like Cruz into the nomination because they were so easily divided by 16 other lesser Conservative choices?

And how many of those TEA Party Representatives have already shown their true Establishment colors?

I'm sorry, but culturally - we are not the same people who put Reagan into the White House twice in landslides.

Homo marriage and taking Commandments out of Courthouses would never have flown back then and I'm pretty sure the Kardashians would be relegated to nothing but a perverted side show in the seedy part of Vegas.

I spent a few years in Vegas, late 90s-2001. I don't even think the Kardashians would have succeeded there in that era.

[RetBobbyMI]

I don't think the GOP embodies the social, moral and constitutional conservatism it once had long, long ago. Those values seem lost on those in leadership positions both within the party and in Congress, and in some cases at state and local levels.  Those that choose to run under that GOP banner are either too ashamed to abandon the party or have legs to be a Patrick Henry and walk the plank to another, newer party.  The GOP, party of Boehner, McConnell, Trump, Romney, McCain, et al, can't ever be trusted again to fulfill their moral obligations to the American public or to the constitution.  They have demonstrated time after time, they can't be trusted with the mantle.  Now does that mean turning it over to the DemRats?  NEVER! They are even worse.  So what does that leave us?  It has to be something new.  The only place I have found to turn to is the Constitution Party with Darrell Castle (one of its founders) as their Presidential candidate.  Both the party and candidate are principled conservatives -- socially, morally, ethically and constitutionally.

[roamer_1]

I'm gonna bow out of this - Today is the Sabbath, and I need to get back to God time.
I leave you with this brief repast, and will return late tonight or tomorrow to pick it up again.

My dad is long departed now...
But every time I fell down, he would tell me to get up.
Every time I failed, he would tell me to get up.
Lately, getting up out of my wheelchair and walking off my Pillsbury Doughboy suit
has been one long failure after another. On and on, without end.
And every time, I hear his voice, plain as day from over my shoulder:
"Get up, boy. Get the **** back up."

I am up. And I don't back down, not for nothing.
If I have to charge hell with a bucket of water all by myself, I will. I'd just hope that one of y'all, standing around here, would hold my coat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-Y7MAASkg