Trump demands share of profits in exchange for Keystone approval

[Maj. Bill Martin]

You buy gas for your car?

Sure I do, and I'm a hell of a lot better off having the choice to buy that gas then I would be if it wasn't available.   And I have no problem at all with the companies that provide me with that incredible product make a profit.  Why should they do it otherwise?

[Mechanicos]

I didn't know robots can buy anything..

Its going to take at least a couple of decades for the Robot revolution to take over to that point and by then the population may be much less because of WW3/Armageddon...

[sinkspur]

And then the Tariffs kick in.... America is the largest consumer of what they are selling...

So under Trump we'll impose tariffs on Canada now? 

[Mechanicos]

But tariffs on gas would be paid by US citizens, not Canada. Unless you are talking about export tariffs.

How would that benefit US citizens?

Would they? I understand Trump is for Drill baby drill. That and building more refineries and power generation. Seems in a free market if the try to pass on a cost that makes their product higher then what the domestic market price is they will not sell much. So how will they pass it on?

[ArneFufkin]

Facts and opinions supporting Trump are neither. They are merely starting points to get to the true message, Trump supporters are devoid of character or thought.

In accordance with TBR posting guidelines I'd like to submit a post that is non offensive, content-less, and decidedly anti Trump.

The only member I observe posting content-less drivel in this thread is you.

Why don't you spam us one more time with your "In accordance with ...." tripe?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Would they? I understand Trump is for Drill baby drill. That and building more refineries and power generation. Seems in a free market if the try to pass on a cost that makes their product higher then what the domestic market price is they will not sell much. So how will they pass it on?

Putting a tariff on imported gas would have the effect of making gas more expensive, you do agree with me on that point, correct?

[sinkspur]

Would they? I understand Trump is for Drill baby drill. That and building more refineries and power generation. Seems in a free market if the try to pass on a cost that makes their product higher then what the domestic market price is they will not sell much. So how will they pass it on?

Everybody's gotta buy gasoline.

[HoustonSam]

Would they? I understand Trump is for Drill baby drill. That and building more refineries and power generation. Seems in a free market if the try to pass on a cost that makes their product higher then what the domestic market price is they will not sell much. So how will they pass it on?

If the Canadians are unable to make a profit by exporting crude to the US, they will simply not export crude to the US.  There will be no "royalties" on the Keystone volumes because there will be no Keystone volumes.

Tariffs on imported goods simply raise prices in the US, whether it's air conditioners or refined hydrocarbons.  Is that the end result you're looking for?

[RedHead]

Would they? I understand Trump is for Drill baby drill. That and building more refineries and power generation. Seems in a free market if the try to pass on a cost that makes their product higher then what the domestic market price is they will not sell much. So how will they pass it on?

Because there is not a free market in this case.  You have one source of supply, the cost of which is set artificially high due to the tariff.  Why would not the other suppliers increase the cost of their product as well since they can without worrying about lower-priced competition from Canada?  And let's face it, if Trump is going to tax Keystone oil then he's going to have to tax all oil coming in from Canada otherwise Canadian producers will find a way around it.  Canada is, I believe, our largest source for foreign oil.  No way that prices won't go up.

The second issue is that the oil travelling through the Keystone Pipeline is almost all destined for export from the Texas terminal point.  By law items landed in the U.S. and which are destined to be shipped to an overseas customer are not taxed.  So how will Trump get that changed? 

[RedHead]

The detractprs of Trump sound quite naive and essentially ignorant. We have built pipelines, before. Land has been taken before. Fees for encroachment, easements, etc. have been paid. There is nothing new.

Do his detractors want the project to continue to be blocked like Obama has, and Hillary would ?? Or maybe it is that you demand to see every detail ?? As if you knew anything about the subject in most cases.

We've never placed a tariff on that oil coming in from Canada before.

[RedHead]

It is when we are dealing with a foreign country that is profiting off of our resources and people.

So any country that sends imports into the U.S. or purchases goods from us is also profiting off our resources and our people.  As are we,

[Mechanicos]

Putting a tariff on imported gas would have the effect of making gas more expensive, you do agree with me on that point, correct?

Nope, not necessarily. Because it would not operate in a vacuum. With a Fungible good it would have the market price set by the Market. Both Domestic and other importers competing for the same consumer market which is not growing.  If they raised it above the market rate to pass it on they would lose sales. The key here is "Fungible goods in a competitive market."

[Relic]

The only member I observe posting content-less drivel in this thread is you.

Why don't you spam us one more time with your "In accordance with ...." tripe?

I don't mean to offend you. Clearly you are one of the shining stars here.

[Hoodat]

When I hear the word share with the state, I usually think the Dems are who support crap like this..

Well, Trump's a Democrat, so . . . .

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Nope, not necessarily. Because it would not operate in a vacuum. With a Fungible good it would have the market price set by the Market. Both Domestic and other importers competing for the same consumer market which is not growing.  If they raised it above the market rate to pass it on they would lose sales. The key here is "Fungible goods in a competitive market."

They may well be willing to lose a small amount of sales rather than take a major cut on profitability.  Or, alternatively, build a different route through their own country where they don't have to worry about the U.S. being able to raise tariffs at will on them.

Because that's the real danger here.  Once the U.S. announces that it may impose royalties, the Canadian will have to ask themselves if they're willing to let themselves be held hostage by the ability of the U.S. to raise those royalties at will once the pipeline is built.  Or, is it simply better business to build a slightly less convenient route through their own country where they know they won't be subject to royalties that can be increased at will by the U.S.?

[truth_seeker]

We've never placed a tariff on that oil coming in from Canada before.

So like Obama and Hillary, you don't want the pipeline, the oil, the jobs ??

And what are your qualifications to state categorically there are not or have never been fees on imported crude oil or refined products ??

Business experience? Regulatory experience? Searched and studied of the internet, for hours?

How high are oil taxes and fees? Pipeline taxes and fees?  What names do they utilize?

Do you notice a common method with Trump? Negotiate from strength. Say Mexico will pay for the Wall. Raise money for charity with debate appearances. Suggest raising revenue for a pipeline.

Trump has stated repeatedly that our deals are the worst. He is giving ideas for better deals. 

[Mechanicos]

And Again #neverTrump finds itself arguing on the side of the Democrats.

[Mechanicos]

They may well be willing to lose a small amount of sales rather than take a major cut on profitability.  Or, alternatively, build a different route through their own country where they don't have to worry about the U.S. being able to raise tariffs at will on them.

Because that's the real danger here.  Once the U.S. announces that it may impose royalties, the Canadian will have to ask themselves if they're willing to let themselves be held hostage by the ability of the U.S. to raise those royalties at will once the pipeline is built.  Or, is it simply better business to build a slightly less convenient route through their own country where they know they won't be subject to royalties that can be increased at will by the U.S.?

Still, they want access to our market. No matter what route it takes to get there. That is inducement to play.

[RedHead]

Still, they want access to our market. No matter what route it takes to get there. That is inducement to play.

Canada already has access to our market; they are the single largest source of our foreign oil.  The Keystone oil is mainly meant for export.  So why should Canada pay to export it out of Texas when they can build the pipeline to their west coast and export from there?

[Jazzhead]

Haters gotta hate.  Trump knows exactly what he's doing.  The haters are just too blind to see the light of the truth that Trump represents.

Quick!   Deprogram this man!

[HoustonSam]

And Again #neverTrump finds itself arguing on the side of the Democrats.

Actually the people arguing on this thread are on the side of reality.  Tariffs, even if called "royalties", raise prices within the United States and depress job and wage growth by slowing economic activity.

The argument for profit sharing by the Federal Government could easily be re-stated as "you didn't build that" (Barack Obama, Roanoke, VA July 13, 2012).  Or perhaps as stated by Elizabeth Warren (Andover, MA Sept 2012) :

"But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

It is you who are arguing on the side of the Democrats.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Still, they want access to our market. No matter what route it takes to get there. That is inducement to play.

As you yourself pointed out, there is a worldwide market for oil.  They don't need our market to sell their oil overseas.

[Free Vulcan]

And then the Tariffs kick in.... America is the largest consumer of what they are selling...

We refine our gas here, we don't import it, so unless you're talking about a tariff on oil, a global commodity, that's not going to generate much revenue. And if you did that increase would be passed to the pump.

The govt can't collect 'royalties' on something it doesn't own. None of the pipeline will be govt owned. That would be then a tax.

[GrouchoTex]

==============================

A box of rocks is quite intelligent compared to these trump haters.

Hate to insult rocks like that though.

Okay, I'll play, not a t Trump hater, but a Trump skeptic.

Where will the money come from the Trump is asking for, when he makes this better deal?

Us, you and me, the consumer, in the form of higher prices the oil companies will charge to recoup the royalty/tax/tariff that Trump wants for making a "better" deal for us.

[MACVSOG68]

Okay, I'll play, not a t Trump hater, but a Trump skeptic.

Where will the money come from the Trump is asking for, when he makes this better deal?

Us, you and me, the consumer, in the form of higher prices the oil companies will charge to recoup the royalty/tax/tariff that Trump wants for making a "better" deal for us.

It won't change anything.  FERC regulates interstate pipeline tariffs (AFAIK), and there won't be any royalties as the oil will come from Canada.  Same for the taxes.  I think Trump still has to learn a lot about this particular business, and how much power he as a president would not have in relation to royalties, tariffs and taxes.  He still sees himself as the main wheeler and dealer as he is in a real estate transaction.