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Offline sinkspur

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Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« on: May 25, 2016, 08:20:25 pm »
http://www.weeklystandard.com/veterans-shouldnt-trust-trump/article/2001050

Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump

The billionaire's 'love' for them is recent, shallow, and insincere.

FEB 22, 2016 | By AARON MACLEAN
 
If there’s one thing Donald Trump wants veterans to know, it's that he loves us, he's going to take care of us, and by the way, he's going to rebuild the military so that it's "so big, so strong, so powerful, nobody is going to mess with us." Going into South Carolina — a state where something like a quarter of voters in past Republican primaries had served in the armed forces, where there are eight military bases, and where there are tens of thousands of military retirees — it's important for Trump that veterans trust him.

Before vets succumb to Trump's blandishments, though, we need to realize that his promises are as self-interested as those from any other politician— and, if possible, even less genuine. Consider that as recently as 2004, before he felt a need for their votes, Trump was pursuing his own private jihad against veterans in New York City who had the temerity to operate as street vendors on Fifth Avenue — which is to say, in front of Trump Tower.

New York had long offered licenses for veterans to ply this sort of trade. But Trump, as the New York Daily News reported, found the veterans unsightly. "Whether they are veterans or not, they should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street," he wrote to Michael Bloomberg, mayor at the time. "The image of New York City will suffer. .  .  . I hope you can stop this very deplorable situation before it is too late." Fifth Avenue was too important and prestigious a spot — the kind of place a billionaire might live! — for vets to try to earn a (legal and honest) living.


This attempt to clear the veterans off his street was not a one-off affair. In 1991, Trump sent a similar letter to an influential member of the New York State Assembly, asking, "Do we allow Fifth Ave., one of the world's finest and most luxurious shopping districts, to be turned into an outdoor flea market, clogging and seriously downgrading the area?" So, for well over a decade, Trump's position on lending a helping hand to veterans was that it was fine, so long as it didn't offend his eyes or hurt his bottom line.

What a difference a run for the presidency can make! To Chuck Todd, earlier this campaign season, Trump lamented the condition of all the wounded vets he sees in New York City: "And they're walking all over the streets of New York, all over the streets of every city, without arms, without legs and worse than that. And I would take care of them. They paid a big price." How would he take care of them? Famously, by taking ISIS's oil and giving them the proceeds: "It's okay. We're going to circle [Iraq]. We're going to circle. We're going to have so much money, and what I would do with the money that we make, which would be tremendous, I would take care of the soldiers that were killed, the families of the soldiers that were killed, the soldiers, the wounded warriors that are — see, I love them."

If Trump were serious about wooing veterans, you might think he would have the grace to propose a scheme that might actually come to pass. The notion that Trump could actually send the U.S. military to Iraq to seize the oil there, then give the money to wounded warriors, is about as ridiculous as the notion that Trump's love for veterans is anything other than a convenient and very recent affectation. As John McCormack pointed out on this magazine's website ("For Years, Trump's Charity Gave Veterans Little More Than Peanuts," Jan. 27), Trump's ostentatious hosting of a fundraiser for wounded vets in Iowa, in lieu of attending a Fox News debate, elicited surprise from veterans' charities, who had little experience of any support from the man. Indeed, in recent years, Trump gave significantly more money to the Clintons than he ever did to veterans' organizations.

Maybe Trump hopes all of these declarations of love and all of these promises of money will make veterans forget or forgive the fact that, rather than serve in Vietnam, he did everything a young rich kid could to get out of the obligation. First, he sought four separate education deferments. The Washington Post reported that during his second year of college, Trump had an armed forces physical that found him fit for duty — and another shortly after graduation in 1968 that arrived at the same conclusion. But then, in September of that year, a new physical found that he had developed "bone spurs" in one or both of his feet. At one point Trump told reporters he couldn't remember which foot it was. Later he said it was both feet.

Trump has also claimed the reason he wasn't drafted is because of a high lottery number assigned in 1969 to those with his birthday. While it's true that those born on the same day as Trump did indeed get assigned a high number in 1969, it appears that Trump's medical deferment would have gotten him out of serving anyway. Trump has said he feels "a little guilty" about the fact that he didn't serve — but he also told Michael D'Antonio, a recent biographer, that because his wealthy father had sent him to a private military school growing up, "I felt that I was in the military in the true sense because I dealt with those people."


My impression is that most people who have served "in the true sense" would hesitate before they mocked a political opponent because he became a prisoner of war. "He's not a war hero," Trump said last year of John McCain, who could have been exchanged early because his father was an admiral, but who refused, suffering years of captivity and torture for his principled stand. McCain's refusal to make a deal with his captors must be incomprehensible to a deal-maker like Trump. "He's a war hero because he was captured," Trump said. "I like people who weren't captured." Someone who has served "in the true sense" would not have said of up-armored Humvees captured by ISIS: "Armor plated, top, bottom, all over, if a bomb goes off our wounded warriors — instead of losing their legs, their arms, worse, they're okay. They go for a little ride upward and they come down." Several thousand American troops have been killed by IEDs since 2001. Quite a few were in up-armored Humvees when they died.

As Trump directs all of this flattery, all of this love, all of these vague promises of money for veterans in South Carolina, those who have actually been in the military should keep in mind that Trump's real concern, now as always, is what's in it for him.

Aaron MacLean, a former Marine Corps infantry officer, is managing editor of the Washington Free Beacon.
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2016, 08:27:45 pm »
 :manyspam: :spam2: :odrama: :bsflag:
Trump is for America First.
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2016, 08:50:05 pm »
:manyspam: :spam2: :odrama: :bsflag:

I don't care how you spin it -- this just doesn't sound good:

"Whether they are veterans or not, they should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street," he wrote to Michael Bloomberg, mayor at the time. "The image of New York City will suffer. .  .  . I hope you can stop this very deplorable situation before it is too late."

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2016, 08:53:27 pm »
I don't care how you spin it -- this just doesn't sound good:

"Whether they are veterans or not, they should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street," he wrote to Michael Bloomberg, mayor at the time. "The image of New York City will suffer. .  .  . I hope you can stop this very deplorable situation before it is too late."
really? So vets are not required to follow zoning laws?
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2016, 09:03:07 pm »
really? So vets are not required to follow zoning laws?

What they were doing was perfectly legal - the article said that the city gave them licenses to sell there.  Trump objected to them getting the licenses.

Other than that, and just speaking for myself, I don't put any stock in what Trump has said about helping veterans because all he's offered are platitudes, not specifics.  I don't hold it against him - I just don't give him any positive points for the things he's said.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:03:49 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2016, 09:05:30 pm »
http://www.weeklystandard.com/veterans-shouldnt-trust-trump/article/2001050

Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump

The billionaire's 'love' for them is recent, shallow, and insincere.

FEB 22, 2016 | By AARON MACLEAN
 
If there’s one thing Donald Trump wants veterans to know, it's that he loves us, he's going to take care of us, and by the way, he's going to rebuild the military so that it's "so big, so strong, so powerful, nobody is going to mess with us." Going into South Carolina — a state where something like a quarter of voters in past Republican primaries had served in the armed forces, where there are eight military bases, and where there are tens of thousands of military retirees — it's important for Trump that veterans trust him.

Before vets succumb to Trump's blandishments, though, we need to realize that his promises are as self-interested as those from any other politician— and, if possible, even less genuine. Consider that as recently as 2004, before he felt a need for their votes, Trump was pursuing his own private jihad against veterans in New York City who had the temerity to operate as street vendors on Fifth Avenue — which is to say, in front of Trump Tower.

New York had long offered licenses for veterans to ply this sort of trade. But Trump, as the New York Daily News reported, found the veterans unsightly. "Whether they are veterans or not, they should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street," he wrote to Michael Bloomberg, mayor at the time. "The image of New York City will suffer. .  .  . I hope you can stop this very deplorable situation before it is too late." Fifth Avenue was too important and prestigious a spot — the kind of place a billionaire might live! — for vets to try to earn a (legal and honest) living.


This attempt to clear the veterans off his street was not a one-off affair. In 1991, Trump sent a similar letter to an influential member of the New York State Assembly, asking, "Do we allow Fifth Ave., one of the world's finest and most luxurious shopping districts, to be turned into an outdoor flea market, clogging and seriously downgrading the area?" So, for well over a decade, Trump's position on lending a helping hand to veterans was that it was fine, so long as it didn't offend his eyes or hurt his bottom line.

What a difference a run for the presidency can make! To Chuck Todd, earlier this campaign season, Trump lamented the condition of all the wounded vets he sees in New York City: "And they're walking all over the streets of New York, all over the streets of every city, without arms, without legs and worse than that. And I would take care of them. They paid a big price." How would he take care of them? Famously, by taking ISIS's oil and giving them the proceeds: "It's okay. We're going to circle [Iraq]. We're going to circle. We're going to have so much money, and what I would do with the money that we make, which would be tremendous, I would take care of the soldiers that were killed, the families of the soldiers that were killed, the soldiers, the wounded warriors that are — see, I love them."

If Trump were serious about wooing veterans, you might think he would have the grace to propose a scheme that might actually come to pass. The notion that Trump could actually send the U.S. military to Iraq to seize the oil there, then give the money to wounded warriors, is about as ridiculous as the notion that Trump's love for veterans is anything other than a convenient and very recent affectation. As John McCormack pointed out on this magazine's website ("For Years, Trump's Charity Gave Veterans Little More Than Peanuts," Jan. 27), Trump's ostentatious hosting of a fundraiser for wounded vets in Iowa, in lieu of attending a Fox News debate, elicited surprise from veterans' charities, who had little experience of any support from the man. Indeed, in recent years, Trump gave significantly more money to the Clintons than he ever did to veterans' organizations.

Maybe Trump hopes all of these declarations of love and all of these promises of money will make veterans forget or forgive the fact that, rather than serve in Vietnam, he did everything a young rich kid could to get out of the obligation. First, he sought four separate education deferments. The Washington Post reported that during his second year of college, Trump had an armed forces physical that found him fit for duty — and another shortly after graduation in 1968 that arrived at the same conclusion. But then, in September of that year, a new physical found that he had developed "bone spurs" in one or both of his feet. At one point Trump told reporters he couldn't remember which foot it was. Later he said it was both feet.

Trump has also claimed the reason he wasn't drafted is because of a high lottery number assigned in 1969 to those with his birthday. While it's true that those born on the same day as Trump did indeed get assigned a high number in 1969, it appears that Trump's medical deferment would have gotten him out of serving anyway. Trump has said he feels "a little guilty" about the fact that he didn't serve — but he also told Michael D'Antonio, a recent biographer, that because his wealthy father had sent him to a private military school growing up, "I felt that I was in the military in the true sense because I dealt with those people."


My impression is that most people who have served "in the true sense" would hesitate before they mocked a political opponent because he became a prisoner of war. "He's not a war hero," Trump said last year of John McCain, who could have been exchanged early because his father was an admiral, but who refused, suffering years of captivity and torture for his principled stand. McCain's refusal to make a deal with his captors must be incomprehensible to a deal-maker like Trump. "He's a war hero because he was captured," Trump said. "I like people who weren't captured." Someone who has served "in the true sense" would not have said of up-armored Humvees captured by ISIS: "Armor plated, top, bottom, all over, if a bomb goes off our wounded warriors — instead of losing their legs, their arms, worse, they're okay. They go for a little ride upward and they come down." Several thousand American troops have been killed by IEDs since 2001. Quite a few were in up-armored Humvees when they died.

As Trump directs all of this flattery, all of this love, all of these vague promises of money for veterans in South Carolina, those who have actually been in the military should keep in mind that Trump's real concern, now as always, is what's in it for him.

Aaron MacLean, a former Marine Corps infantry officer, is managing editor of the Washington Free Beacon.

I'm a veteran. My brother, sister and father are/were veterans. Most of my friends and acquaintances are veterans. I can vouch that just about every one of them would read that article and dismiss at as total garbage. More importantly, nearly every Vet I know is a big fan of Mr. Trump...they, like most, want to proud of this nation and see our military rebuilt and used appropriately. Further, active duty troops favor Trump in huge numbers. But according to Sink, that means we are all just dupes, brown shirts, and liberals. Go figure.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:06:28 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2016, 09:06:40 pm »
What they were doing was perfectly legal - the article said that the city gave them licenses to sell there.  Trump objected to them getting the licenses.

Other than that, and just speaking for myself, I don't put any stock in what Trump has said about helping veterans because all he's offered are platitudes, not specifics.  I don't hold it against him - I just don't give him any positive points for the things he's said.

There is also no evidence that Trump disbursed most of the $4.5 million (he said he collected $6 million) he got the night he skipped the FOXNEWS debate. 

Trump talks big.  He's a gutless little coward, though, when it comes to actually stepping up to the plate and helping vets.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2016, 09:09:06 pm »
I don't care how you spin it -- this just doesn't sound good:

"Whether they are veterans or not, they should not be allowed to sell on this most important and prestigious shopping street," he wrote to Michael Bloomberg, mayor at the time. "The image of New York City will suffer. .  .  . I hope you can stop this very deplorable situation before it is too late."

It sounds quite clearly like it had nothing to do with them being veterans, it was about the mode of selling that was being undertaken on the street. Just a silly effort to conflate two unrelated things into a single objection...and it just doesn't work.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 09:11:52 pm »
There is also no evidence that Trump disbursed most of the $4.5 million (he said he collected $6 million) he got the night he skipped the FOXNEWS debate. 

Trump talks big.  He's a gutless little coward, though, when it comes to actually stepping up to the plate and helping vets.

Do you have some evidence that he did not?

If you're going to accuse someone as you are, you should have evidence of misconduct...not the absence of evidence confirming positive acts.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 09:13:48 pm »
I'm a veteran. My brother, sister and father are/were veterans. Most of my friends and acquaintances are veterans. I can vouch that just about every one of them would read that article and dismiss at as total garbage. More importantly, nearly every Vet I know is a big fan of Mr. Trump...they, like most, want to proud of this nation and see our military rebuilt and used appropriately. Further, active duty troops favor Trump in huge numbers. But according to Sink, that means we are all just dupes, brown shirts, and liberals. Go figure.

Trump is not going to rebuild the military.  There is no money.

Why would he want to built it up anyway?  He wants Russia to take over operations in the Middle East.  He wants Japan and South Korea to defend themselves.  He wants all the NATO countries to pony up for their own defense and pull troops out of all of them.

So why build up the military?

More boob bait for you bubbas.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 09:15:40 pm »
Do you have some evidence that he did not?

If you're going to accuse someone as you are, you should have evidence of misconduct...not the absence of evidence confirming positive acts.

All of the organizations identified by the Trump organization as eligible for donations have been asked. Only half of the money has been disbursed.

And look here:

Quote
UPDATE: On Tuesday afternoon, Trump told The Washington Post that he had made good on a promise to give $1 million to veterans groups -- but he had only done it on Monday night, under increasing media scrutiny. This post has been updated to reflect new information from that interview.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/05/24/what-we-know-and-what-we-dont-about-the-money-donald-trump-raised-for-veterans/

Trump had maintained for months that he had given $1 million to vets groups.  He only gave it yesterday after the press bugged his mangy butt about it.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:19:37 pm by sinkspur »
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 09:50:32 pm »
I'm a veteran. My brother, sister and father are/were veterans. Most of my friends and acquaintances are veterans. I can vouch that just about every one of them would read that article and dismiss at as total garbage. More importantly, nearly every Vet I know is a big fan of Mr. Trump...they, like most, want to proud of this nation and see our military rebuilt and used appropriately. Further, active duty troops favor Trump in huge numbers. But according to Sink, that means we are all just dupes, brown shirts, and liberals. Go figure.

Well, I'm a veteran, as is the author of that article.  I would not presume to speak for every other veteran, but I can say that I know plenty who don't like Trump.

Most of us are Annapolis grads, so perhaps that's not a good  sampling.  I do expect Trump to be somewhat better than Hillary for active duty troops, though i'm withholding judgment on that until I hear what he thinks about gender integration of combat arms.

But veterans specifically - no expectations one way or the other.

Offline MajorClay

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2016, 10:36:00 pm »
I know I don't trust him.

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2016, 11:04:20 pm »
I'm a veteran and I don't trust Trump as far as I  can throw him.  Never will!
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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2016, 11:19:24 pm »
http://www.weeklystandard.com/veterans-shouldnt-trust-trump/article/2001050

Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump

The billionaire's 'love' for them is recent, shallow, and insincere.



This veteran never has. He's a schmuck.  :chairbang:
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Offline montanajoe

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2016, 11:20:32 pm »
I'm a Vet and I don't trust this draft dodging fool. I like most of the Vet's I hang out with, were drafted or volunteered during the Vietnam era. I run into very few that support Trump. Many like me remember the reception we got from the likes of Trump when we were in public in Uniform.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 12:09:34 am by montanajoe »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2016, 11:51:20 pm »
What they were doing was perfectly legal - the article said that the city gave them licenses to sell there.  Trump objected to them getting the licenses.

Other than that, and just speaking for myself, I don't put any stock in what Trump has said about helping veterans because all he's offered are platitudes, not specifics.  I don't hold it against him - I just don't give him any positive points for the things he's said.

Vets, like illegal aliens, are a fairly recent preoccupation of Trump's. I read somewhere that the Donald J Trump Foundation gave a pittance to veterans groups up until 2014, which probably is the year he decided he'd run this cycle.

The man is a class A shyster.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 11:52:01 pm by skeeter »

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2016, 01:38:07 am »
I'm a USMC vet and I trust Trump more than Hillary or any Democrat.
Trump is for America First.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2016, 12:08:06 pm »
We know any Democrat candidate would be a disaster for vets, especially in the area of VA hospitals. Frankly, we have little to go on to know what Trump would do. Opposing street vendors who happen to be veterans probably is not the best predictor. His dodgy behavior in giving the money he promised to veterans' groups probably better indicates how he feels about them, though.
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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2016, 12:21:29 pm »
:manyspam: :spam2: :odrama: :bsflag:
Yes.  But enough about Trump.  What did you think of the article?

Offline RedHead

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2016, 12:24:12 pm »
Do you have some evidence that he did not?

There have been several allegations to that effect.  If Trump would just release a detailed statement on what was collected and what was distributed and to who then he could put the whole thing to rest.  Yet he won't.

If you're going to accuse someone as you are, you should have evidence of misconduct...not the absence of evidence confirming positive acts.

Just think of it as using the Trump method of accusation.

Offline RedHead

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2016, 12:26:29 pm »
We know what Trump thinks of POWs - doesn't like them.  We can't really say what he thinks about vets in general and wounded vets in particular.  All we do know is that with his plans to send troops into the Middle East he does seem bound and determined to create more of them.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2016, 12:30:00 pm »
Bill Clinton left troops unsupported int he field in Somalia and they died because of it

Hillary Clinton left troops unsupported in the field in Libya and they died because of it

Only a brain dead poltical moron with an irrational hate for Trump, would argue Vets should support any Clinton ever.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 12:30:43 pm by GAJohnnie »

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2016, 12:30:21 pm »
I'm a veteran. My brother, sister and father are/were veterans. Most of my friends and acquaintances are veterans. I can vouch that just about every one of them would read that article and dismiss at as total garbage. More importantly, nearly every Vet I know is a big fan of Mr. Trump...they, like most, want to proud of this nation and see our military rebuilt and used appropriately. Further, active duty troops favor Trump in huge numbers. But according to Sink, that means we are all just dupes, brown shirts, and liberals. Go figure.

Cool story bro.  You ever thought of becoming a fiction writer?
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: Veterans Shouldn't Trust Trump
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2016, 12:31:14 pm »
Cool story bro.  You ever thought of becoming a fiction writer?

No you have that job locked down tight.