First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch

[RedHead]

Well if we are going to go with the religious angle,   tell me how many cities God burned to death over adultery?   

How many of the 10 Commandments mention homosexuality?

I know of three cities in the Bible that were destroyed over Homosexuality.   The vehemence of their destruction leads me to believe that God feels pretty strongly about it.

Jesus felt strongly enough about divorce to equate remarriage with adultery.  What did He have to say about homosexuality?

But as usual you miss the point.  The other poster justifies discriminating against homosexuals because it's a sin and an abomination.  Well so is adultery and by that standard divorced people should be faced with the same kind of discrimination.  But of course he's not advocating that.  And neither are you.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Gay people cannot help but be gay.   Probably because they're gay and they can't help it.

Given that, how can the military take the same gender-separating precautions we use with heterosexuals to address sexual harassment/fraternization/privacy concerns, with homosexuals?  You can't separate them by gender, obviously.  And yet, there is a clear military recognition that gender-specific privacy concerns should be protected.  In fact, part of the new mandated integration of women into combat arms is to address their privacy concerns.

If gays are no more able to control their sexual impulses/desires than are heterosexuals (which I believe is true), then how is a woman in open shower facilities with aman any different from a gay man in an open shower facility with a straight man?  Aren't the privacy interests of the woman and straight guy the same in those two situations - to not be showering with someone who will view them sexually?

[RedHead]

Many homosexuals are created through molestation.   Adult males molesting little boys makes a homosexual or "bi-sexual" about 56% of the time,  according to that study I linked you to earlier,  but regarding which you don't seem to have the slightest interest. 

So who do you suppose molested Dick Cheney's daughter or Newt Gingrich's sister?

[mirraflake]

This condition will not long last.  I am coming around to the opinion that it is not even natural or sensible.   This "equality"  concept is a Christian concept.  Islam does not have it. 

So women having equal rights is not sensible or natural  to you.  Wow.     

@RedHead
@Dexter

[mirraflake]

 


Many homosexuals are created through molestation. 

Young girls are molested at 4 times the rate of young boys yet gay men outnumber lesbian women I believe almost 2 to 1. Should not lesbians outnumber gay men based upon your stats?

The 3 gay men I told you about were never molested. I know them well. Related to one. I know his family. Good Christian family and he had  a great relationship with his dad and mom.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So will this guy be a Rear Admiral?

[DiogenesLamp]

How many of the 10 Commandments mention homosexuality?

Number 7.    The word "adultery"  is a mistranslation.  In the Hebrew of the time it meant no sexual relations outside of marriage. 

The Torah makes it even clearer that homosexual acts are prohibited.  (Look at number 157) 

But as usual you miss the point.  The other poster justifies discriminating against homosexuals because it's a sin and an abomination.  Well so is adultery and by that standard divorced people should be faced with the same kind of discrimination.  But of course he's not advocating that.  And neither are you.

Again,  God did not burn down cities over adultery.   God burned cities for homosexuality.   Also,  elsewhere in the bible it basically says to kill them.   


No,   If you are religious,   I think the bible makes it pretty clear by example and by direct statement what God thinks should be done with them. 

[mirraflake]

Again,  God did not burn down cities over adultery.   God burned cities for homosexuality.   Also,  elsewhere in the bible it basically says to kill them.   


No,   If you are religious,   I think the bible makes it pretty clear by example and by direct statement what God thinks should be done with them.

Do you think gays should be killed?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well, not a fan of gays in the military at all, but....

If God wants to strike down entire cities because some within them practices homosexuality, I suppose he can do that.  But we're not God, and I personally think that whatever consenting adults choose to do in the privacy of their own home sexually is not my business.

Doesn't mean I think gay marriage is right, or that I want to have it constantly plastered in my face to the point where the American people massively overestimate the number of gays in society, either.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Have you not noticed?   They cannot help but make sure you know all about their private life.    I think they get a sort of satisfaction at making certain everyone around them knows they are @ueer. 

That's my issue.  I'm pretty sure that one of my corpsmen was gay, but he was a good corpsman and didn't advertise it, so nobody cared.  Kind of like having a girl as a nurse anyway.  The problem is that demonstrating that it was not an issue when guys were not permitted to be "out" doesn't mean squat when you're comparing it to what happens if it can be flaunted.

Here's the thing -- in units/branches where it was not an issue, nobody made an issue about it.  But there's a big difference between having someone openly gay as a programmer in an office in Omaha, and having an openly gay infantryman at Camp Lejuene.  The group dynamics, ethics, and everything else are just completely different.

[cato potatoe]

You talk about gays like they are a race.  They aren't.  Their civil rights aren't being violated like the gay "mafia" tries to make them out to be.  We're talking about at best 3% of the population that is continually trying to force the majority to accept what most see as a deviant lifestyle as normal.

And it's not.

And it's certainly not about some oppressed minority.

Although it's different in some parts of the country, gays are still at a disadvantage.  They can be disowned by their parents or shunned by people they have known their entire lives.  They may live in fear a manager will find some reason to fire them for living with a partner.  Gays are subjected to all sorts of emotional abuse that quite often ends in self-loathing and destructive behaviors.

Politically the religious debate hurts us with younger voters who can be swayed on economics but take a laissez-faire approach to social issues.  Do we want liberty or authoritarianism?  Sometimes we are seen as talking out of both sides of our mouths.

[DiogenesLamp]

So who do you suppose molested Dick Cheney's daughter or Newt Gingrich's sister?

Are you going to put forth an argument which is not an attempt at a childish pot-shot?    I'm telling you what medical studies have revealed,   and you are asking me about the childhood of people whom I don't even know?   


Apart from that,  you aren't even paying attention to what I have already written.   Lesbians are an entirely different phenomena.   A lot of ignorant people go around with the presumption that "gay"  females"   and "gay" males are the same. 


No they are not.   They are very different in behavior,  outlook,  and causes.  Most Lesbians take it up as the result of bad experiences with men,  either abuse or rejection.   Some have hormonal or physical issues,   and more lately are taking it up because it has become a fad.   


I know,  because I've recently had young daughters in high school who were telling me about how all the girls in school were going "gay".   It was a fad,  and I recognized what it was at the time.   Many of these girls who were supposed to have become Lesbians have married and now have children.   

[DiogenesLamp]

So women having equal rights is not sensible or natural  to you.  Wow.     

@RedHead
@Dexter

It is certainly not for Muslims.   Given the bubble headed stupidity I keep seeing from women voters,   I'm beginning to think they may be right.   


The Nation didn't let women vote until 1919.   That's 143 years of non-equal rights.   And what did they do with it when they got it?   They elected FDR four times,   they elected JFK,  they elected LBJ,   they elected Carter,  they elected Clinton and most recently they elected Obama.   


Sounds like that 19th amendment may have been a mistake. 


But since i'm in the mood to burst your prejudices and your sensibilities,   I'll let this fellow in this video explain to you some concepts, the complexity of which I suspect has never been able to attain purchase in your mind.   



You are welcome to point out any flaws in his argument.   I will be very interested in hearing about any you find. 

[Dexter]

It is certainly not for Muslims.   Given the bubble headed stupidity I keep seeing from women voters,   I'm beginning to think they may be right.   

So what other parts of Sharia would you like to adopt? Should we establish a theocracy and start stoning gays in the street?

[DiogenesLamp]

Young girls are molested at 4 times the rate of young boys yet gay men outnumber lesbian women I believe almost 2 to 1. Should not lesbians outnumber gay men based upon your stats?

I just touched on that earlier.   Here again you are providing an example of what I said.   People have this tendency to equate Lesbians with Twinks,   and they are very different in most every way. 


Females are generally more resilient to sexual abuse than males.   Many recover without so much of the trauma.   Some do not.  (Chastity Bono being but one example.)   

Oh,  and I think you are mistaken in your stats.   Boys make up about 40% of all molestations.  Girls make up approximately 60% of all molestations,   so the ratio is closer to 2 to 3,  boys to girls. 


For someone who is attempting to discuss this issue,   I am surprised at the level of ignorance of the subject you keep displaying.   Why don't you quit arguing with me,   and go look up information on the subject that doesn't come from a "gay"  activists source?   (and believe me,  there are a *LOT*  of "gay"  activist sources out there.) 

The 3 gay men I told you about were never molested. I know them well. Related to one. I know his family. Good Christian family and he had  a great relationship with his dad and mom.

It is not always the father doing the molesting.   It is often an uncle or a friend of the family which does it.   Why don't you just ask him if he was molested?   Or better yet,   ask him when he had his first sexual experience,  and how old was the person with whom he had it?   


If  you say "molested"  that will put him on his guard, and the truth will be less forthcoming.

[DiogenesLamp]

Do you think gays should be killed?

Not unless they commit a crime worthy of being killed.   I am very much in favor of the death penalty for murder,  or perhaps the rape of children.   

[mirraflake]

It is certainly not for Muslims.   Given the bubble headed stupidity I keep seeing from women voters,   I'm beginning to think they may be right.   


The Nation didn't let women vote until 1919.   That's 143 years of non-equal rights.   And what did they do with it when they got it?   They elected FDR four times,   they elected JFK,  they elected LBJ,   they elected Carter,  they elected Clinton and most recently they elected Obama.   


Sounds like that 19th amendment may have been a mistake. 


But since i'm in the mood to burst your prejudices and your sensibilities,   I'll let this fellow in this video explain to you some concepts, the complexity of which I suspect has never been able to attain purchase in your mind.   



You are welcome to point out any flaws in his argument.   I will be very interested in hearing about any you find.

@sinkspur     Add women to the people Diogenes hates.  LOL.

[Bigun]

Am I to understand that sinkspur has the ability to ban people on this board? Is he a moderator? 

Modify to ask...Who are the Moderators on this board, anyway?

LOL! NO! He does not! And no he isn't! 

[DiogenesLamp]

That's my issue.  I'm pretty sure that one of my corpsmen was gay, but he was a good corpsman and didn't advertise it, so nobody cared.  Kind of like having a girl as a nurse anyway.  The problem is that demonstrating that it was not an issue when guys were not permitted to be "out" doesn't mean squat when you're comparing it to what happens if it can be flaunted.

I don't think any of us are completely sane,   but functional people can do their jobs in spite of their quirks.   

Here's the thing -- in units/branches where it was not an issue, nobody made an issue about it.  But there's a big difference between having someone openly gay as a programmer in an office in Omaha, and having an openly gay infantryman at Camp Lejuene.  The group dynamics, ethics, and everything else are just completely different.

The problem is they won't allow you to NOT make an issue of it.   They *WANT*  to make an issue of it.   They will not be happy until they have pushed their gayness in your face and forced you to say it's wonderful.    They are not content to leave it alone,   they go out of their way to aggressively challenge other people in regards to their beliefs.   

That case in Kentucky where the clerk went to jail.   Those guys didn't even live in Kentucky,   they just went there because they heard she wasn't going to issue any gay "marriage"  certificates.   

In all these cases we  have been seeing,   they deliberately seek out people who they expect will not condone their behavior,  and then they try to *FORCE*  them to celebrate "gayness".   


I have postulated many years ago that they are desperate to convince others that their condition is normal because they need reassurance about their own deep seated doubts.   Nobody wants to believe they are sick and an outcast,   and so they constantly need assurances that there is nothing wrong with them.   


It never works,  and eventually many of them commit suicide.   Even in Sweden,  where they have bent over frontwards and backwards trying to make homosexuals feel good about themselves,   their suicide rate is still far higher than heterosexuals.   


They've got issues.   Lots of issues. 

[DiogenesLamp]

Although it's different in some parts of the country, gays are still at a disadvantage.  They can be disowned by their parents or shunned by people they have known their entire lives.  They may live in fear a manager will find some reason to fire them for living with a partner.  Gays are subjected to all sorts of emotional abuse that quite often ends in self-loathing and destructive behaviors.

Politically the religious debate hurts us with younger voters who can be swayed on economics but take a laissez-faire approach to social issues.  Do we want liberty or authoritarianism?  Sometimes we are seen as talking out of both sides of our mouths.

I have long ago postulated that many of our "modern"  preferences are the consequence of the endless stream of money coming out of the Federal Money Spigot since 1964.   Life lessons that would have taught people better how to think were not learned because of the avoidance of normal consequences provided by that Federal money spigot. 


I would like to go into it,   but it would take too much time and it is only tangentially related to this current issue. 


I will simply say,  the "modern"  preferences were artificially created,  (through media and government policy)  and will not last over time.   

[DiogenesLamp]

So what other parts of Sharia would you like to adopt? Should we establish a theocracy and start stoning gays in the street?

Childish little pot shots.   You are obviously in beyond your ability to respond,  and so you resort to your little taunts.   


It's looking like you are going to eventually get your stoneings in the streets whether you want them or not,   because "diversity"   is going to polite us all into the grave. 


I waste my time putting forth facts and reason with you.   I should just resort to childish taunts because that seems to be all you have the capacity to grasp.   


In other words,   I'd like to agree with you,  but I doubt there is enough room up your @$$ for both of our heads. 

[DiogenesLamp]

@sinkspur     Add women to the people Diogenes hates.  LOL.

I Don't hate women,   but I have a low tolerance level for ignorant, opinionated people who haven't yet grown out of childhood. 


You can't argue anything,  all you seem to be able to do is make snide little comments.   

How about you learn what you are talking about so you can put up a better fight?   How about that? 

[RedHead]

Again,  God did not burn down cities over adultery.   God burned cities for homosexuality.   Also,  elsewhere in the bible it basically says to kill them.   

Leviticus 20:10 "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

Shall we kill those who divorce and remarry?

[RedHead]

...but I have a low tolerance level for ignorant, opinionated people who haven't yet grown out of childhood. 

Pot?  Meet kettle.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It is certainly not for Muslims.   Given the bubble headed stupidity I keep seeing from women voters,   I'm beginning to think they may be right.   


The Nation didn't let women vote until 1919.   That's 143 years of non-equal rights.   And what did they do with it when they got it?   They elected FDR four times,   they elected JFK,  they elected LBJ,   they elected Carter,  they elected Clinton and most recently they elected Obama.   


Sounds like that 19th amendment may have been a mistake.

As much as I think women must have the right to vote, it's pretty clear we're worse off for it simply as a matter of results.