Author Topic: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch  (Read 18588 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #100 on: May 19, 2016, 08:10:49 pm »
Oh, I don't know. Maybe so they don't have to hide in fear of being exiled with an unfavorable discharge just because of their sexual orientation.



Tell me,   from whence do you think this fear has come?  Let us get to the crux of this problem.   

Why has there been a widespread and millennium old animosity throughout western culture for homosexuals?    Till recently,   (last 50 years)   they were not tolerated at all,   and so how did this state of affairs come to pass?    Why was queerness an automatic exile from the dominant society? 






Homosexuality is not a choice and it's not learned. Gay people can't choose to be straight any more than straight people can choose to be gay.


And how do you know this?  From what I have read,  the best studies indicate that more than 40% of adult homosexuals admit to being molested as children by other homosexuals.   The real number may be higher still,  but that is the number for which they have studies to demonstrate it.   




I believe your homophobia is detrimental to the future of conservatism.


I believe there is no near term future to conservatism.   It is slowly adopting the premises and positions of Liberalism,  you being an example of such a thing regarding this issue. 


But it will resurge,  because it is a consequence of fundamental natural principles that cannot be manipulated by the opinions of man.    The remnant will survive,   and go on to re-establish rational society after the bad times have come and gone.   


But things will get very bad first.   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #101 on: May 19, 2016, 08:25:16 pm »
Why has there been a widespread and millennium old animosity throughout western culture for homosexuals?

Same reason most minorities were originally oppressed I imagine. The majority is ignorant, fearful and ruthlessly judgmental.


And how do you know this?  From what I have read,  the best studies indicate that more than 40% of adult homosexuals admit to being molested as children by other homosexuals.   The real number may be higher still,  but that is the number for which they have studies to demonstrate it.   

Please provide a link to those scientific studies.

I believe there is no near term future to conservatism.   It is slowly adopting the premises and positions of Liberalism,  you being an example of such a thing regarding this issue. 

You're probably right, because people like you would rather oppress others than focus on things like fiscal conservatism.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 08:25:51 pm by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Online cato potatoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,946
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #102 on: May 19, 2016, 09:11:33 pm »

They demanded,  and got,   assurances from all the major studios that henceforth any scripts would be sent to a "gay"  revue board to insure that they presented "gay"  characters in a good,  or at least neutral light.     Yes,  they created a "Gay"  censorship board for movie scripts in Hollywood.


I had not heard of that, but it doesn't surprise me at all.  Hollywood has neutered itself with PC templates for scripts and character roles.  And yet they manage to saturate every work with cynicism and violence. 

The trashy queens do exist in a disproportionate number, as you described, and there are many problems within the community.  But I would expect that element to steer clear of military service, or at least get weeded out early on.  It requires a level of commitment that only serious people can handle.  That's why I question whether the presence of otherwise normal gays is a morale issue at this point, given the shifting social conventions.  I would certainly defer to the opinion of those who have served in the military.

Offline mirraflake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,199
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #103 on: May 19, 2016, 09:26:48 pm »


Tell me,   from whence do you think this fear has come?  Let us get to the crux of this problem.   

Why has there been a widespread and millennium old animosity throughout western culture for homosexuals?    Till recently,   (last 50 years)   they were not tolerated at all,   and so how did this state of affairs come to pass?    Why was queerness an automatic exile from the dominant society? 






Same as women. For most of our human history women were treated as second class citizens. Could not vote, own land, get a job. Over the last 70-80 years in Western countries only have women gained rights equal to men.  Most of the Muslim world is still backward in this respect.

It's called tradition and old ways..hard to break.

If you look why gays were hated in past years much of it had to do with the concept of bringing forth children. Most societies needed as many births as they could just to survive or fight wars and if you did not have kids you were a pariah .  In many old societies women who could not have children were literally  thrown out to die.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:29:13 pm by mirraflake »

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #104 on: May 19, 2016, 10:14:53 pm »
Same reason most minorities were originally oppressed I imagine. The majority is ignorant, fearful and ruthlessly judgmental.


That's one theory.  Another theory is that they had prior experience with them and determined that they were dangerous.    They provoke a special level of ostracism above and beyond that of just any ordinary minority.    Why would there be such a thing as "homophobia" if all their behavior was benign?   






Please provide a link to those scientific studies.


Here's one.     There are others out there.

Quote
Shrier and Johnson interviewed 300 intercity boys as part of a general intake health history at an adolescent outpatient clinic. Forty of the adolescents disclosed an experience of being sexually assaulted by a male before puberty. These 40 were compared to an age-matched control group from the same sample of boys who do not report abuse. Shrier and Johnson found that while 90% of the control group reported they were heterosexual, only 42.5% of those reporting sexual victimization said they were heterosexual - 47.5% said they were homosexual, and 10% said they bisexual. Only 6 of the 40 victimized boys had revealed the molestation to anyone prior to participation in the study interview.(Johnson 1985)



But why don't you ask your homosexual friends if they were molested by an adult when they were young?   Nothing like getting your data straight from a source.   




You're probably right, because people like you would rather oppress others than focus on things like fiscal conservatism.



People like me are aware that you can't have fiscal conservatism without social conservatism.   They aren't separate things.   Modern society has made great efforts to try to make it appear as if the one thing is not dependent upon the other,   but there is no safety for money or property without a fundamental moral basis upon which a society may be built.   


As Edmund Burke said 250 years ago:


Quote
Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.


Edmund Burke is regarded as the Father of social conservatism,  and Adam Smith is regarded as the Father of Fiscal conservatism,   but what most people don't know is that not only were the two men contemporaries,   but they were in fact close personal friends who developed their ideas in tandem with each other.   


The perspectives of both men are meant to reinforce each other,   not exist independently,   because they cannot.   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline flowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,798
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #105 on: May 19, 2016, 10:29:38 pm »


I very much doubt it.   If this were the case,   then why bother making the military "gay"  friendly?   Why appeal to them?   


Are you to tell me that the various efforts engaged in since Bill Scumbag Clinton were not to make "gays"   feel more comfortable in the military?   


Plus I think the numbers are increasing,  i.e.  the percentage of the population that considers itself "gay"   is going up.    Part of this is the effect of propaganda,   and part of this is the effect of the lessening of the normal attrition rate that has historical occurred regarding people who engage in "gay"  behavior,  which is very dangerous.     


Modern Medicine and Modern Communications have had a major impact on "gay"  survivability.   Had we the same population we have now,   but without the modern medicine techniques,  there are millions of "gay"  people who would not now be alive. 


We are living during a period of homosexual expansion in our population.    There have been such periods in the past,   but they generally ended up burning out as a result of attrition by disease.   We are currently holding back the disease,  and so we are in the course of an expansion.

Yep.....all those shows mean to promote the agenda. ........did you see the other day Powers at the UN upset that 11 sharia countries do not want some gay types in meetings?  She was all upset saying that aids research was a must. They don't care a wit about gays/trans only the result. Destruction of military, morals, family values and  society as we know it.


Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #106 on: May 19, 2016, 10:35:14 pm »
Same as women. For most of our human history women were treated as second class citizens. Could not vote, own land, get a job. Over the last 70-80 years in Western countries only have women gained rights equal to men.


This condition will not long last.  I am coming around to the opinion that it is not even natural or sensible.   This "equality"  concept is a Christian concept.  Islam does not have it. 


Most of the Muslim world is still backward in this respect.


"Backward"   is a perception.   They see us as backward,  and themselves as completely sensible.   What people don't grasp is that many divergent opinions result from having differing fundamental assumptions.   Islam is one giant pecking order from the lowliest slave to the highest Sultan,  and beyond him the Prophet Mohammad and then Allah. 

"Equality"  is offensive to Islam.   Nobody can be equal.  Allah has servants of varying degree,  and the more pious are better and the less pious are lesser. 






It's called tradition and old ways..hard to break.

If you look why gays were hated in past years much of it had to do with the concept of bringing forth children. Most societies needed as many births as they could just to survive or fight wars and if you did not have kids you were a pariah .  In many old societies women who could not have children were literally  thrown out to die.


That is just a piece of it.   Yes,  not having children was considered very bad because it was people that made a community or a nation stronger than it's potential enemies.   The powers that be have always regarded it as the duty of the people to make more people to help defend the homeland. 



But imagine for a moment how life would be for homosexuals prior to antibiotics and antivirals.   They would tend to fall victim to any venereal (or other) diseases circulating amongst their pool of partners,   and they would become sickly over time.   

People would notice that those men who wanted other men would generally waste away from some horrible affliction,   and in those days they associated maladies with evil. 

Add to this their propensity for suicide.   (Also a big taboo in Christian culture.)   

Add to this their propensity to molest boys. 

When you add all these tendencies together,   the long and widespread ostracization of homosexuals from the general society makes a lot more sense.   


And I haven't even mentioned how over represented they are among the ranks of serial killers.   Yes,   far more homosexuals are serial killers than ought to be represented by their percentage of the population.   They ought to make up 1.8% of all the serial killers,  but they are closer to 50%.   

I operate under the assumption that it is an inherent characteristic of a subset of the larger demographic of homosexuality,   and has always been the same throughout history. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #107 on: May 19, 2016, 10:56:21 pm »
Might as well put this in here too:


Govt: BBC Must Have Ten Per Cent LGBT Staff



http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/19/bbcs-government-stipulated-target-10-lgbt-staff-far-outstrips-rivals/


Now who didn't see that coming?   I know I did.   I expect one of these days they are going to force people to do something homosexual to demonstrate they aren't homophobic.   It is literally heading in that direction. 


Come on Muslims!   Things are getting to the point where i'm going to have to start rooting for you! 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #108 on: May 20, 2016, 06:57:46 am »
Same reason most minorities were originally oppressed I imagine. The majority is ignorant, fearful and ruthlessly judgmental.

You talk about gays like they are a race.  They aren't.  Their civil rights aren't being violated like the gay "mafia" tries to make them out to be.  We're talking about at best 3% of the population that is continually trying to force the majority to accept what most see as a deviant lifestyle as normal.

And it's not.

And it's certainly not about some oppressed minority.


The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #109 on: May 20, 2016, 02:33:26 pm »
Why would there be such a thing as "homophobia" if all their behavior was benign?   

You could use a similar argument to say black people aren't deserving of normal treatment. The answer is that people are hateful, judgmental and severely lack perspective.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 02:33:57 pm by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #110 on: May 20, 2016, 02:36:22 pm »
You could use a similar argument to say black people aren't deserving of normal treatment. The answer is that people are hateful, judgmental and severely lack perspective.

Race and sexual orientation are two different things...to compare the two is a dishonest argument.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #111 on: May 20, 2016, 02:39:40 pm »
Race and sexual orientation are two different things...to compare the two is a dishonest argument.

They are equally ridiculous and unfair things to pass judgment over.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 02:40:19 pm by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #112 on: May 20, 2016, 02:43:10 pm »
They are equally ridiculous and unfair things to pass judgment over.

One has nothing to do with the other and trying to compare the two is apples and oranges.

And for those of us that believe in what the Bible teaches...Homosexuality is an abomination and a sin.

The color of your skin is not.

One has had judgement passed on it by an unquestionable source.  The other has not.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #113 on: May 20, 2016, 02:45:46 pm »
One has had judgement passed on it by an unquestionable source. 

And we get to the crux of the issue. I disagree.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #114 on: May 20, 2016, 02:48:15 pm »
History will view those that fought against the acceptance of homosexuality similarly to how it views those that fought against black/women's rights.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #115 on: May 20, 2016, 02:50:13 pm »
And we get to the crux of the issue. I disagree.

What's there to disagree about?

Look you might have a case that the two were equal if gays had been forced to sit at separate lunch counters...drinking fountains or forced to move to the backof the buse to make room for straight people.

You won't see pictures of Bull Connor and company using fire hoses and attack dogs on gay people.

But there is NONE of that.  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that it's a sin to be Black or Latino or Asian.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #116 on: May 20, 2016, 02:51:34 pm »
History will view those that fought against the acceptance of homosexuality similarly to how it views those that fought against black/women's rights.

Name ONE right in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights that is denied to gays?

Or women for that matter since you want to toss them in there. 

It's always funny that women come up as some kind of minority when they make up a majority of the population.  smh
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #117 on: May 20, 2016, 02:51:59 pm »
Look you might have a case that the two were equal if gays had been forced to sit at separate lunch counters...drinking fountains or forced to move to the backof the buse to make room for straight people.

I think if people that think like you had their way it'd be a whole lot worse than that.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #118 on: May 20, 2016, 02:59:30 pm »
I think if people that think like you had their way it'd be a whole lot worse than that.

That's part of your problem right there...you're trying to think for me.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline RedHead

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,592
  • Gender: Female
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #119 on: May 20, 2016, 03:39:39 pm »
One has nothing to do with the other and trying to compare the two is apples and oranges.

And for those of us that believe in what the Bible teaches...Homosexuality is an abomination and a sin.


So is adultery.  Would you advocate a ban on remarriage by divorced people, denying them jobs or housing, treating them differently for tax purposes, etc.?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 03:40:47 pm by RedHead »

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #120 on: May 20, 2016, 04:26:22 pm »
You talk about gays like they are a race.  They aren't. 



They aren't even a single flavor.   They are a collection of fetishes of varying degree.   There are "Tops",  "Bottoms",   "Sissyboys",   "Butch",  "Transgender",  "Pederasts", "Transvestites",  and so on, all operating under the Umbrella of "gay".    There are so many complications to what different types prefer that they've even worked out an entire signaling system to clue people in on what they are looking for when they meet. 


Here is a point which I think is seldom contemplated by people discussing this issue. 


If this behavior is normal,   why is there not just one kind of "gay"?   Why are their dozens of different flavors of it?   


Are we to believe that a dozen different splinter fetishes are all normal?   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #121 on: May 20, 2016, 04:34:06 pm »
You could use a similar argument to say black people aren't deserving of normal treatment. The answer is that people are hateful, judgmental and severely lack perspective.


I see you keep trying to force this into a "black"  comparison,  (really,  just a propaganda tool)    but this is about behavior,  not appearance.    Black people cannot help but be identified as black,  because it is a characteristic of their appearance.   


Homosexuals cannot be identified EXCEPT WHEN THEY BEHAVE A CERTAIN WAY.   


They have a choice to be identified or not,   and Black people do not.   


And yet homosexuals never seemed to be able to refrain from the behavior that identified them,  even when they knew it would bring about retribution from the rest of society.

That sounds like a behavioral and therefore mental issue.     




‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #122 on: May 20, 2016, 04:40:28 pm »
So is adultery.  Would you advocate a ban on remarriage by divorced people, denying them jobs or housing, treating them differently for tax purposes, etc.?


Well if we are going to go with the religious angle,   tell me how many cities God burned to death over adultery?   


I know of three cities in the Bible that were destroyed over Homosexuality.   The vehemence of their destruction leads me to believe that God feels pretty strongly about it.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #123 on: May 20, 2016, 04:45:12 pm »
Black people cannot help but be identified as black,  because it is a characteristic of their appearance.   

Gay people cannot help but be gay.


And yet homosexuals never seemed to be able to refrain from the behavior that identified them

Probably because they're gay and they can't help it.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 04:45:41 pm by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Re: First openly gay leader of a U.S. military service branch
« Reply #124 on: May 20, 2016, 04:52:09 pm »
Gay people cannot help but be gay.


Probably because they're gay and they can't help it.


Neither can schizophrenics,  but humoring them in their insanity doesn't help them or society. 


Many homosexuals are created through molestation.   Adult males molesting little boys makes a homosexual or "bi-sexual" about 56% of the time,  according to that study I linked you to earlier,  but regarding which you don't seem to have the slightest interest. 


Are you only interested in facts that help your argument,   or do you want to understand what is the actual objective truth?   



‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —