Author Topic: Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward'  (Read 122475 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Says you.  I'm not saying that to be rude, simply pointing out that someone else can take a contrary view of the definition and there is no higher authority to play arbiter.  So we end up with nothing but semantisicm.


Not to be rude either,  but the US Constitution concludes with a reference to  "Our Lord".   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Not to be rude either,  but the US Constitution concludes with a reference to  "Our Lord".

If you can point me to The Lord's Edition of Webster's, I'd appreciate it.  I wasn't aware that the Almighty concerned himself with political definitions.

Online libertybele

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But it's not the liberals doing it.  It's people who tend to lean Republican/right doing it to ourselves.  You've got one group (that includes you) who insists that if you're not a Christian/social conservative, you're not a conservative.  Others who insist that conservatism must include free trade, others who say it must include a strong defense, or secure borders....and it goes on and on.  You can see it in this very thread, with some posters trying to define it for everyone else.

Regardless of who is right or wrong, it's not the left doing this.

It's people who tend to lean Republican/right doing it to ourselves??  Wow.  Damn the Constitution!!  Those that honor and adhere to the traditional principles and values upon which this country was founded and the Constitution I consider conservative.  Those that deviate or move away from the Constitution in order to fulfill their own agenda quite often in the name of political correctness I consider liberal.

But hey, let's not blame the left for anything, who cares if they dismantle the Constitution right?
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline aligncare

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I am continually fascinated by those who somehow find an need to prove they are "conservatives," as if it is vital.

But that alone is not enough, for they go on to debate endlessly the precise definition of conservatives, almost always clinging to the idea they alone are in the "correct" grouping.

It seems to not cross their minds, that they need votes from folks that don't entirely agree with them on everything, and by being so rigid, they drive away the very supporters they need to win.

I think Ronald Reagan could explain this, and did. It is part of a logic/math situation, which I mention from time to time.

It's actually a form of narcissism. But, one moment...give me a chance to slip into my flame suit. I think I'm going to need it.

My entire family always voted Democrat and I love them just the same. I've had neighbors and friends that vote Democrat, and you know what? They're just average Joe Americans. We may disagree, but it's their country, too, and they get a say in their America, even though I hope their ideas are rejected by the voting public.

Offline musiclady

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No, Republican is a terrible word for that.  It's a political party, so you can be pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-Obamacare, whatever, and still call yourself -- with 100% complete accuracy -- a "Republican".

Now me personally, I think there's nothing wrong with one person referring to themselves as a "Social Conservative" and another as a "Libertarian conservative".  Both are descriptive.  But apparently, that's not acceptable, and the only correct definition of "conservative" is "social conservative".

You can push for that if you'd like, but that's not how everyone else uses the term, so you're bound to be disappointed.

Whoa there, Major!  I don't know of anyone who defines conservatism as "only" social conservatism.

What I believe others are saying (and I agree with), is that social conservatism is part of the overall picture, along with fiscal conservatism and small government conservatism......... kind of like the 3 legs of a stool, which, when one of the legs is removed, the stool falls down.

There are libertarians who definitely have two legs of the stool, but the moral/cultural conservatism that our country was founded on is missing.  In those areas, they are more aligned with liberals than with conservatives.

Social conservatism, as PART of overall conservatism, is imperative, IMO.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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It's people who tend to lean Republican/right doing it to ourselves??  Wow.  Damn the Constitution!!  Those that honor and adhere to the traditional principles and values upon which this country was founded and the Constitution I consider conservative.  Those that deviate or move away from the Constitution in order to fulfill their own agenda quite often in the name of political correctness I consider liberal.

But hey, let's not blame the left for anything, who cares if they dismantle the Constitution right?

What in the name of Dread Cthluhu are you talking about?  I'm talking about the definition of the word "conservative" -- it's a semantic argument.  I'm not talking about the substance of the Constitution, unless you can tell me that the Constitution expressly defined the word "conservative" somewhere in Article 8.

Online libertybele

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Not to be rude either,  but the US Constitution concludes with a reference to  "Our Lord".

Where in the conclusion of the United States Constitution does it reference "Our Lord"?
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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What in the name of Dread Cthluhu are you talking about?  I'm talking about the definition of the word "conservative" -- it's a semantic argument.  I'm not talking about the substance of the Constitution, unless you can tell me that the Constitution expressly defined the word "conservative" somewhere in Article 8.

If you actually go back and read my post, you will see I very clearly stated my DEFINITION OF CONSERVATISM.  No.  It isn't a semantic argument.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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If you actually go back and read my post, you will see I very clearly stated my DEFINITION OF CONSERVATISM.  No.  It isn't a semantic argument.

No, it is. By it's very defintion it is. You don't get it.

Offline musiclady

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If you can point me to The Lord's Edition of Webster's, I'd appreciate it.  I wasn't aware that the Almighty concerned himself with political definitions.

I think he's referring to "in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven"
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Where in the conclusion of the United States Constitution does it reference "Our Lord"?

See above post: End of Article VII.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I think he's referring to "in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven"

That's his proof? Hahahahaha!

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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There are libertarians who definitely have two legs of the stool, but the moral/cultural conservatism that our country was founded on is missing.  In those areas, they are more aligned with liberals than with conservatives.

A libertarian can believe very strongly in moral/cultural conservatism.  They just won't believe that is something that the government should enforce.  I'm not a Libertarian myself, but the concept of moral/cultural conservatism is not incompatible with libertarianism.

Quote
Social conservatism, as PART of overall conservatism, is imperative, IMO.

Well, it may be.  But I can say that I sowed a few wild oats in my younger days, so I probably wasn't as "morally conservative" as some might deem acceptable.   And I can laugh at South Park, so I'm probably not "culturally conservative" either.

Guess that means I should vote for Bernie or something....


Offline musiclady

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That's his proof? Hahahahaha!

I guess so.........   it's the only reference to "Our Lord" in there. 
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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A libertarian can believe very strongly in moral/cultural conservatism.  They just won't believe that is something that the government should enforce.  I'm not a Libertarian myself, but the concept of moral/cultural conservatism is not incompatible with libertarianism.

Well, it may be.  But I can say that I sowed a few wild oats in my younger days, so I probably wasn't as "morally conservative" as some might deem acceptable.   And I can laugh at South Park, so I'm probably not "culturally conservative" either.

Guess that means I should vote for Bernie or something....



I immediately dismiss the 'thoughts' of someone who posts a dopey picture of Church Lady as someone who doesn't believe his arguments can stand on their own without derision of those who disagree.

I was trying to have a civil conversation, but I guess you don't wanna..........   **nononono*
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online libertybele

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No, it is. By it's very defintion it is. You don't get it.

No actually, you don't get it.  You will eventually. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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If you can point me to The Lord's Edition of Webster's, I'd appreciate it.  I wasn't aware that the Almighty concerned himself with political definitions.

Last I checked,  he didn't so much define words as speak in parables as well as speaking through acts of God.   You can find the nearest equivalent to what you asked for at this link.


This, and others of a very similar nature,  were the reference books the founders used when setting up the nation. 
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline INVAR

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Says you.  I'm not saying that to be rude, simply pointing out that someone else can take a contrary view of the definition and there is no higher authority to play arbiter.  So we end up with nothing but semantisicm.

When God and the Judeo-Christian religion is no longer considered the highest authority - all you have is what the authority of men decide.

Men will decide if you have a right to defend yourself or not.  Men will decide if you are allowed to make a living or not.

Which is why I say, if a people will not be governed by God, they will be ruled by the tyrants and tyranny of men.

So here we sit, arguing about and against the very principles that established us because they are offensive to most of the population today that no longer consider God, and the biblical religions to have any authority or validity beyond one's own closet.

Because if we have no higher authority from whence our Rights and Freedoms originate,  we have no right to complain about where this nation now sits, or complain and worry about the loss of liberty, and the abolishment of freedom as we once understood it.  Because we no longer agree on what the definition of liberty is, much less Conservatism.  So the rulings of men will decide.

Liberty and freedom will be whatever the whims of men say they are.

Which is why we now have laws allowing perverts to use women's bathrooms and private businesses must bake cakes for homosexual unions.

Tomorrow freedom and liberty will defined as limiting where you can live and how much wealth you are permitted.

If there is no higher authority to play arbiter, unscrupulous vain, ambitious and jealous men will become that highest authority.

And tyrants will rule.

And you have no recourse except to submit - because the mob has decided that what you see as tyranny, is for the larger good of those persons and agendas they serve.


Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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No actually, you don't get it.  You will eventually.

Great. A semantical argument about the meaning of the word semantics. Very meta.

Offline Sanguine

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Uncle!  I give up!  Whatever Maj. Bill says I now agree to! No more, please!

Online libertybele

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See above post: End of Article VII.

Article VII of the Constitution ... "Constitution to be considered adopted when ratified by nine States...
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sitetest

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Former Republican.

Online libertybele

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Uncle!  I give up!  Whatever Maj. Bill says I now agree to! No more, please!


 :beer: :silly: :silly:  Yes, maintain your sanity.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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It's people who tend to lean Republican/right doing it to ourselves??  Wow.  Damn the Constitution!!  Those that honor and adhere to the traditional principles and values upon which this country was founded and the Constitution I consider conservative.  Those that deviate or move away from the Constitution in order to fulfill their own agenda quite often in the name of political correctness I consider liberal.

I am sorry,  but you have presented me with an opportunity that my devilish little heart just can't resist. :)

Which was Abraham Lincoln?  A Conservative who adheres "to the traditional principles and values upon which this country was founded"   or a Liberal "that deviate or move away from the Constitution in order to fulfill their own agenda quite often in the name of political correctness."?


Again,  sorry.  :) 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Where in the conclusion of the United States Constitution does it reference "Our Lord"?


At the end.  At the conclusion of it,  and prior to the bill of rights. 



‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —