Cruz: Those who bolstered Trump 'will bear that responsibility going forward'

[RetBobbyMI]

IF Trump, and that is a big IF, would come out and state his top 3 areas of his Presidency are
--provide for a common defense and eliminate any government agency that does not serve that function,
--abolish the 16th Amendment (the ability of the Federal government to tax individuals) and
--promote a constitutional republic by the appointment of constitutionalist judges (not just conservative), then he might get my support. But he won't do that. And if he did, not sure I would believe him.

[Bigun]

IF Trump, and that is a big IF, would come out and state his top 3 areas of his Presidency are
--provide for a common defense and eliminate any government agency that does not serve that function,
--abolish the 16th Amendment (the ability of the Federal government to tax individuals) and
--promote a constitutional republic by the appointment of constitutionalist judges (not just conservative), then he might get my support. But he won't do that. And if he did, not sure I would believe him.

That's the ENTIRE problem! How can anyone believe a word he says when everything he says runs counter to his entire history of word and deed?

[libertybele]

That's the ENTIRE problem! How can anyone believe a word he says when everything he says runs counter to his entire history of word and deed?

I'm sure there are more, but Trump has back pedaled on punishing women on abortions, trans gender rights, Muslims, torture, border wall, Syrian refugees, McCain comments, Cruz's father, illegal immigration,  Cruz's citizenship, nuclear proliferation, Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and Hillary Clinton herself! 

[INVAR]

Completely understand.  However, there are a WHOLE lotta people out there looking for a new home for their CONSERVATIVE vote.  Plus, likely, a few independents and Reagan Democrats would jump on board.

Even if they lost, picking up 10%, 15%, or even 25% of the vote starting from ground zero 5 months from the G.E. would put a stake through the heart of the GOP - forever, and scare the heck out of the Dems and GOPTrumps.   

A new "conservative" party will not arrive in a single election, but regardless of which progressive wins in November, what Cruz, Sasse, and other conservatives do between now and November will make all the difference in the world going forward.  For one thing, they'll dispel the myth that a viable third party is not possible in a system of government locked between two parties for 150 years.  To be viable in 2018 and future elections, they'd need to make a dent in 2016.

...As it stands, conservatives are beaten, finished, and possibly forever.   A whole lot of people will simply drop out of the system, and allow the rogues to run America going forward, waiting in many cases, for the next civil war to purge America.   Better to fight politically tomorrow, under a new banner, losing the battle today, than to fight literally tomorrow.  That may be the choice.

I'd LOVE to see a new third, conservative party before Novermber, even if every vote had to be a write-in vote.

Why does everyone continue to put their hope in elections to save what has already been usurped, replaced, abolished and fundamentally transformed????

We had a velvet coup folks.  The Rule of Law and the Constitution have been made IRRELEVANT and Congress and the Courts have surrendered their duty and have of themselves been corrupted into the oligarchy running the show.

You cannot stop  tyranny and this kind of institutionalized corruption via civil means.  Elections are now as manipulated as the stock market.

THINK PAST where everyone puts their faith and hope.  UNDERSTAND where we have been taken and what will be required of you to survive what history teaches is now inevitable.

[the_doc]

I think we'we've always felt pretty secure (in lifetime) about our religious liberties.  But more and more we see them eroded in the interests of the inconsequential.  I have also been thinking that we are moving into the end times scenario (just finished a study on Revelation). 

I am about halfway through More Than Conquerors by William Hendrickson.  It is the best structural survey of Revelations that I have ever read.  (I guess I am biased in that, since I have discovered that Hendrickson agrees with most [though not quite all] of my long-held interpretive theories for the Book!)

Most important, Hendrickson is spectacularly optimistic--and that despite the fact that so much of the stuff in the Book of the Revelation is decidedly terrible on the earth.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Why does everyone continue to put their hope in elections to save what has already been usurped, replaced, abolished and fundamentally transformed????

We had a velvet coup folks.  The Rule of Law and the Constitution have been made IRRELEVANT and Congress and the Courts have surrendered their duty and have of themselves been corrupted into the oligarchy running the show.

You cannot stop  tyranny and this kind of institutionalized corruption via civil means.  Elections are now as manipulated as the stock market.

THINK PAST where everyone puts their faith and hope.  UNDERSTAND where we have been taken and what will be required of you to survive what history teaches is now inevitable.

So what is the solution in your opinion?

[INVAR]

So what is the solution in your opinion?

Solution???  What Republic in the history of the planet has ever come back once it discarded it's foundations and was lost to the tyranny of men and the mob?

Put your faith in The Lord, not in men or their promises or their institutions.

Repent of your personal sins and shortcomings.

Prep to survive and endure what is to come.

You can reference the French Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution, 1923-29 Italy, 1938 Germany and Venezuela today to get an idea of what happens to the people the rulers have targeted and/or end up suffering the most.

[libertybele]

Solution???  What Republic in the history of the planet has ever come back once it discarded it's foundations and was lost to the tyranny of men and the mob?

Put your faith in The Lord, not in men or their promises or their institutions.

Repent of your personal sins and shortcomings.

Prep to survive and endure what is to come.

You can reference the French Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution, 1923-29 Italy, 1938 Germany and Venezuela today to get an idea of what happens to the people the rulers have targeted and/or end up suffering the most.

I hear what you are saying and I believe the foundation upon which this country was founded upon has been crumbling for quite some time. It has been obvious that Washington is broken and cannot be fixed for awhile. The GOP has been completely hijacked and those Congressmen refusing to align themselves with Trump are either horrified by him or saving their own necks for future re-election. The realization that Trump will be no better, if not worse than Clinton is starting to sink in.

Our last hope is to work (time is of the essence) to maintain our conservative governors in the States and stand behind them.

Perhaps a government collapse is needed in order to restore it. The Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written and we have been complacent in allowing the federal government to control the states; more provisions and protections should have been given to the individual states to avoid government overreach; and perhaps term limits should have been imposed on the Supreme Court justices. Cruz tried to stop the annihilation of our country and almost succeeded.  I don't think he's going away anytime soon nor are his supporters.

[RetBobbyMI]

I hear what you are saying and I believe the foundation upon which this country was founded upon has been crumbling for quite some time. It has been obvious that Washington is broken and cannot be fixed for awhile. The GOP has been completely hijacked and those Congressmen refusing to align themselves with Trump are either horrified by him or saving their own necks for future re-election. The realization that Trump will be no better, if not worse than Clinton is starting to sink in.

Our last hope is to work (time is of the essence) to maintain our conservative governors in the States and stand behind them.

Perhaps a government collapse is needed in order to restore it. The Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written and we have been complacent in allowing the federal government to control the states; more provisions and protections should have been given to the individual states to avoid government overreach; and perhaps term limits should have been imposed on the Supreme Court justices. Cruz tried to stop the annihilation of our country and almost succeeded.  I don't think he's going away anytime soon nor are his supporters.

The easiest and quickest place to start a new trend (back to the constitutional conservatism foundation of this country) is for at least 4 senators to renounce the Republican Party and declare they are independent or a member of the Constitution Party. Neither McConnell nor Schumer could claim Majority, thus power would rest with this small group through a coalition.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The easiest and quickest place to start a new trend (back to the constitutional conservatism foundation of this country) is for at least 4 senators to renounce the Republican Party and declare they are independent or a member of the Constitution Party. Neither McConnell nor Schumer could claim Majority, thus power would rest with this small group through a coalition.

That would just split the GOP vote in those states.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Solution???  What Republic in the history of the planet has ever come back once it discarded it's foundations and was lost to the tyranny of men and the mob?

Put your faith in The Lord, not in men or their promises or their institutions.

What will God do exactly? I thought the founders were Deists who basically believed God stayed out of men's affairs?

[INVAR]

What will God do exactly? I thought the founders were Deists who basically believed God stayed out of men's affairs?

If you actually read the majority of the Founders' diaries, letters to family and colleagues, speeches and what many of them contributed to state institutions, you will find that with the exception of Jefferson and Franklin, they were nearly all ardent Christians who upheld their faith as Supreme over everything else.

Just read George Washington's Farewell Address and then try and tell yourself that God and men were to stay out of one another's affairs.

As far as what God will do exactly?

He will do as he did with another nation of people who were called by His Name: He will give the whole nation over to their desires and their wickedness until it consumes them.  Then invaded and slaughtered by enemies from afar with survivors taken as slaves, until they are totally and completely destroyed and forgotten.

I know a lot of Christians think that God no longer does such things, but if they understood that God says He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and understood prophetic events foretold in the scriptures - they would believe that His Word is infallible, and what He warned a nation of His people called by His Name in Deuteronomy 28 in terms of blessings and cursings, had no expiration date.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I know a lot of Christians think that God no longer does such things, but if they understood that God says He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and understood prophetic events foretold in the scriptures - they would believe that His Word is infallible, and what He warned a nation of His people called by His Name in Deuteronomy 28 in terms of blessings and cursings, had no expiration date.

Sorry but I'll need more advice than to "pray".

[Right_in_Virginia]

Do we need a Religion Forum?

[R4 TrumPence]

Do we need a Religion Forum?

 

[INVAR]

I hear what you are saying and I believe the foundation upon which this country was founded upon has been crumbling for quite some time. It has been obvious that Washington is broken and cannot be fixed for awhile. The GOP has been completely hijacked and those Congressmen refusing to align themselves with Trump are either horrified by him or saving their own necks for future re-election. The realization that Trump will be no better, if not worse than Clinton is starting to sink in.

Our last hope is to work (time is of the essence) to maintain our conservative governors in the States and stand behind them.

Perhaps a government collapse is needed in order to restore it. The Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written and we have been complacent in allowing the federal government to control the states; more provisions and protections should have been given to the individual states to avoid government overreach; and perhaps term limits should have been imposed on the Supreme Court justices. Cruz tried to stop the annihilation of our country and almost succeeded.  I don't think he's going away anytime soon nor are his supporters.

With all due respect, you are looking at solutions from a purely political standpoint and those things are not going to slow, stop or reverse the tyranny and collapse we are on.

If you look at the model of what God blessed that forged our nation in the first place - the CULTURE of people has to be a religious and moral people bound by a common faith.  A faith in the belief that their Creator expects them to be self-governed by His Laws and Principles without the yoke of men dictating their lives.  If God were the most important thing to such a culture and people - and they yearned to live free of tyrants who intended to bring them under subjection to the authority of men via financial, legal and then military punishment - such a people would not be concerned about financial punishments and would defy, refuse and resist such encroachments upon their liberties.   That will incite the iron fist of the tyrant to be visited upon them which would be their justification to go to war against that which has become unfit to govern a free people and throw off the chains and install new guards for their liberties.

But we are no longer those people.  Churches themselves by and large want nothing to do with the call for repentance and to stand against the evil hedonism being imposed by law and decree across the land.

As such, political solutions are doomed to fail and conflict will simply be a bloodbath of vengeance ala France in the 1790's.

You cannot stop tyranny and corruption as it is now instituted via civil means.  Period.  Fact of history and human nature.

Article V was a solution we could have employed decades ago, but this corrupted people today and the institutions they are beholden to that have abandoned the rule of law - will never be constrained by any attempt to impose the rule of law upon them.

They will employ mass brutality to protect their power and often incite dependent mobs to help them do so.  Another fact of history and human nature.

What are we willing to risk to restore what we have already surrendered?

[INVAR]

Do we need a Religion Forum?

I'm not discussing doctrine or catechism.  I am discussing faith and the Christian religion in the exact same manner the Founding Fathers themselves discussed it when debating and arguing about establishing the nation.

Or does the mere mention of The Creator and Christianity so offend you that you seek any mention of it to be banished and prohibited?

[INVAR]

Sorry but I'll need more advice than to "pray".

Prep.

[sinkspur]

I'm not discussing doctrine or catechism.  I am discussing faith and the Christian religion in the exact same manner the Founding Fathers themselves discussed it when debating and arguing about establishing the nation.

Or does the mere mention of The Creator and Christianity so offend you that you seek any mention of it to be banished and prohibited?

No you're not.  Your context is an evangelical literal interpretation of every word of Scripture, and lots of Christians do not subscribe to such an approach.

That is one of the reasons we don't have a religion forum and I hope we never do.  It will be nothing but a constant source of verbal warfare.

[R4 TrumPence]

No you're not.  Your context is an evangelical literal interpretation of every word of Scripture, and lots of Christians do not subscribe to such an approach.

That is one of the reasons we don't have a religion forum and I hope we never do.  It will be nothing but a constant source of verbal warfare.

Thank you Sink!
Very well said

[INVAR]

No you're not.  Your context is an evangelical literal interpretation of every word of Scripture, and lots of Christians do not subscribe to such an approach.

And this is why we no longer have a Republic as the Founders intended and why we will suffer continuous diminishing liberty.

You cannot have the Constitution we had, or maintain liberty when the Christian religion and biblical morality are no longer respected in a culture and are instead seen as the problem.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Prep.

That is a reasonable response, but I feel we still can avert a situation like Venezuela here in the US. This is why I remain passionate about politics.

[libertybele]

The easiest and quickest place to start a new trend (back to the constitutional conservatism foundation of this country) is for at least 4 senators to renounce the Republican Party and declare they are independent or a member of the Constitution Party. Neither McConnell nor Schumer could claim Majority, thus power would rest with this small group through a coalition.

Except ... the voting public would also have to change their affiliation as some states are closed primary states.  While I understand the premise, it is unlikely to happen and not feasible.

[INVAR]

That is a reasonable response, but I feel we still can avert a situation like Venezuela here in the US. This is why I remain passionate about politics.

Not when half our population and nearly all the imported refugees, immigrants and reconquinistas WANT what Hugo Chavez brought to Venezuela.

Not when 3/4 of the population think forcing an American assimilation is akin to slavery.

Not when a corrupt oligarchy has empowered a dictatorship that most of the population is content with.

Not when a formerly vibrant Christian people have become lukewarm and bought the lie that their faith is offensive and it needs to be kept under a bushel.

Venezuela multiplied is our future.

You can assert to yourself that will never happen here, but you will remember this conversation later.

[roamer_1]

@INVAR

Our last hope is to work (time is of the essence) to maintain our conservative governors in the States and stand behind them.

While I am largely in agreement with INVAR, yours libertybele, is near the eternal hope of rejuvenation in this American Republic.

It starts in the precincts, grows in the state houses, blossoms in the Governorship.
One of the things that this election season has discounted is the TEA Party. And it is worth the fight. All is not lost. The power of the fed is at the whim of the states. We HAVE TO keep fighting the good fight to overturn.

And if not, there is yet one more step - revolution - if no other step remains.

And while I am commiserate with you INVAR, I will not give it up until there is not a single vestige of our liberties existing, and I and my compatriots have no breath left within us. Until that day, hope remains.