Author Topic: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention  (Read 7518 times)

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Offline EtX

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #50 on: May 14, 2016, 04:41:37 am »
Signed!

Have a tRumpet neighbor who painted TRUMP in big letters across local road. I get to run over TRUMP several times a day.

Offline the_doc

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2016, 12:45:06 am »
If this petition were actually successful, here is what it would accomplish:

1) Trump supporters, both "believers" and "realists", would likely abandon the party in droves.

2) GOP congressional candidates would get crushed, with Trump voters likely voting for their opponents out of anger

3) the GOP nominee would get crushed by Hillary.

4) Permanent alienation/split in the party.


This is the wet dream of the Democrat Party.  If you don't like Trump, don't vote for him -- I probably won't either.  If you really, truly hate him that much, vote for Hillary.  But having the party as an organization do this would do incalculable damage to the party's reputation among many voters.

He's earned the nomination -- support him or not.  But trying to convince delegates to change the rules at the 11th hour purely to deny him the nomination is, well, obscene.  I'm a lifelong Republican who can't stand Trump either, but I'd permanently abandon the party at all levels if it did this.  It would have earned as swift a death as possible.

I fully understand your concerns,  but I would first of all point out that all of the bad things that you associate with the petition, if enacted, would almost certainly happen if Trump is not blocked by the Rules Committee.  (Re-read the final paragraph of the petition.  The petitioners are dead serious.)  I frankly believe we are way beyond salvaging the Republican Party.  I smell the odor from the toaster already.

As to Trump earning the nomination, I would respond that Trump has been "earning" it by over-the-top lying and slander and vulgarity and thuggish threats--and all the while avoiding substantive policy debates.  I agree with the petitioners that the only thing that Trump has earned is political excommunication.  By his divisiveness and dishonesty and other unseemly behavior, he has revealed himself to be a political heretic.

BTW, I believe it is within the Rules of the Party for the Rules Committee to simply instruct delegates to vote their consciences.  If that happens, Trump is toast, IMO.  (A lot of Trump delegates are asking to be released from their State-imposed pledges, based on what they now know about Trump and about his prospects for beating Hillary.)

***

As a side note on the 'excommunication" idea, I would point out that spiritual excommunication proceedings in local churches sometimes do destroy local churches (especially churches that waited too long to act decisively against ungodly members.)  The churches that split and fail did not deserve to survive anyway.  On the other hand, churches that don't go forward with the disciplinary sanctions definitely don't deserve to survive--even if they do survive!  (There are lot of churches that keep their doors open even after they have become completely worthless.)   

 

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2016, 12:50:28 am »
Stuff like this has only one possible result. Electing Hillary. There is no way anything good can come of it.
Trump is for America First.
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Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2016, 01:37:37 am »
Stuff like this has only one possible result. Electing Hillary. There is no way anything good can come of it.
Hillary isn't a sure thing either. First she has a possible indictment hanging over her head, and secondly, The only thing she is hanging on to get her over the top inthe delegate count are the Super-delegates. Trump doesn't poll as well against Bernie as he does against Hillary, where he is at best tied.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2016, 01:07:31 pm »
Hillary isn't a sure thing either. First she has a possible indictment hanging over her head, and secondly, The only thing she is hanging on to get her over the top inthe delegate count are the Super-delegates. Trump doesn't poll as well against Bernie as he does against Hillary, where he is at best tied.
Trump has not gone after Bernie because he assumes Bernie's people will vote for him out of vengeance for Hillary stealing the nomination. Bernie is very vulnerable to attack which he has not been subject too so far. Hillary cannot since they have the same talking points and Trump is holding back as a strategy for the general. If Bernie wins the Nomination he will be eviscerated by Trump in the General just on Trumps platform positions.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2016, 01:30:54 pm »
Trump has not gone after Bernie because he assumes Bernie's people will vote for him out of vengeance for Hillary stealing the nomination. Bernie is very vulnerable to attack which he has not been subject too so far. Hillary cannot since they have the same talking points and Trump is holding back as a strategy for the general. If Bernie wins the Nomination he will be eviscerated by Trump in the General just on Trumps platform positions.
Bernie people voting for Trump because he looses to Hillary?  THAT is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. First, there is no guarantee Bernie will loose to Hillary.  If he get more raw delegates and is overrun by the super delegates, the DemoRats will implode and Bernie is more likely to run as an independent to take Hillary's general election votes, ensuring SHE doesn't win. In a general race between Bernie (independent), Hillary (Dem), Trump (Rep), Johnson (Lib), Castle (Const), Stein (Green), no one will get 50% nationally.  On a State by State basis (the determining factor for Electoral College votes and unless Hillary gets indicted, she is more likely (and no, I do not support her) to 270 before Trump. But I am not sure either can or will get to 270 when you factor ing the congressional district distribution in many states.  Just because one candidate gets more votes in a state than anyone else, doesn't mean they take all Electoral votes in most states.  AS for Bernie being "eviscerated by Trump" I wouldn't take that to the bank.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2016, 01:55:02 pm »
Stuff like this has only one possible result. Electing Hillary. There is no way anything good can come of it.

A lot of good can come from it - namely, the defeat of Trumpism.   Why should responsible conservatives bend over and accept the alt-right takeover of the GOP?   
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2016, 02:07:37 pm »
A lot of good can come from it - namely, the defeat of Trumpism.   Why should responsible conservatives bend over and accept the alt-right takeover of the GOP?   
And we, aren't bending over.  Trumpeters can kiss their own back side. They made their own cesspool, now they can swim in it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 02:08:10 pm by RetBobbyMI »
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline austingirl

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2016, 02:42:12 pm »
I fully understand your concerns,  but I would first of all point out that all of the bad things that you associate with the petition, if enacted, would almost certainly happen if Trump is not blocked by the Rules Committee.  (Re-read the final paragraph of the petition.  The petitioners are dead serious.)  I frankly believe we are way beyond salvaging the Republican Party.  I smell the odor from the toaster already.

As to Trump earning the nomination, I would respond that Trump has been "earning" it by over-the-top lying and slander and vulgarity and thuggish threats--and all the while avoiding substantive policy debates.  I agree with the petitioners that the only thing that Trump has earned is political excommunication.  By his divisiveness and dishonesty and other unseemly behavior, he has revealed himself to be a political heretic.

BTW, I believe it is within the Rules of the Party for the Rules Committee to simply instruct delegates to vote their consciences.  If that happens, Trump is toast, IMO.  (A lot of Trump delegates are asking to be released from their State-imposed pledges, based on what they now know about Trump and about his prospects for beating Hillary.)

***

As a side note on the 'excommunication" idea, I would point out that spiritual excommunication proceedings in local churches sometimes do destroy local churches (especially churches that waited too long to act decisively against ungodly members.)  The churches that split and fail did not deserve to survive anyway.  On the other hand, churches that don't go forward with the disciplinary sanctions definitely don't deserve to survive--even if they do survive!  (There are lot of churches that keep their doors open even after they have become completely worthless.)   

 




Excellent post!
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2016, 02:44:08 pm »
Bernie people voting for Trump because he looses to Hillary?  THAT is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. First, there is no guarantee Bernie will loose to Hillary.  If he get more raw delegates and is overrun by the super delegates, the DemoRats will implode and Bernie is more likely to run as an independent to take Hillary's general election votes, ensuring SHE doesn't win. In a general race between Bernie (independent), Hillary (Dem), Trump (Rep), Johnson (Lib), Castle (Const), Stein (Green), no one will get 50% nationally.  On a State by State basis (the determining factor for Electoral College votes and unless Hillary gets indicted, she is more likely (and no, I do not support her) to 270 before Trump. But I am not sure either can or will get to 270 when you factor ing the congressional district distribution in many states.  Just because one candidate gets more votes in a state than anyone else, doesn't mean they take all Electoral votes in most states.  AS for Bernie being "eviscerated by Trump" I wouldn't take that to the bank.
So you want more of the same...
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Mechanicos

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2016, 02:45:23 pm »
A lot of good can come from it - namely, the defeat of Trumpism.   Why should responsible conservatives bend over and accept the alt-right takeover of the GOP?   
LOL a Hillary supporter telling me what conservatives think?
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2016, 03:03:46 pm »
LOL a Hillary supporter telling me what conservatives think?

You're the motherflippin' Hillary supporter.  You support the cretin who will lose in a landslide to her.   I supported the one candidate who consistently beat Clinton - until you and your fellow alt-rights came along and hi-jacked my party. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 03:05:20 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2016, 03:08:08 pm »
LOL a Hillary supporter telling me what conservatives think?

And as for what conservatives think, check out the poll of TBR members - last I looked, only 36% of us here will vote for Trump. 

TEA party conservatives, Reagan conservatives, social conservatives - we're all type on this board, and the majority of us object to Trump's alt-right takeover.
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Offline Mechanicos

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2016, 03:11:40 pm »
And as for what conservatives think, check out the poll of TBR members - last I looked, only 36% of us here will vote for Trump. 

TEA party conservatives, Reagan conservatives, social conservatives - we're all type on this board, and the majority of us object to Trump's alt-right takeover.
Well, seems several of the nicks are the same people, and the overall population sample for the polls is not large to start with. Yes many of the FR rejects congregate here now. However that does not translate to the general population as the primary voting has shown.
Trump is for America First.
"Crooked Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of the Status Quo – and wherever Hillary Clinton goes, corruption and scandal follow." D. Trump 7/11/16

Did you know that the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?

Isaiah 54:17

Offline the_doc

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2016, 03:18:42 pm »
And we, aren't bending over.  Trumpeters can kiss their own back side. They made their own cesspool, now they can swim in it.

Omigosh, when I glanced at your post to Jazzhead and I saw that you were condemning trumpeters, I thought we were going to have a really vicious fight on this thread.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2016, 05:04:47 pm »
Stuff like this has only one possible result. Electing Hillary. There is no way anything good can come of it.

@Mechanicos

Nah--and no worries.  I wash my hands of the #neverTrumps knowing they're a small--and shrinking--subgroup; and grateful that soon they'll be stranded in the nosebleed section of political relevance.    ^-^



Offline INVAR

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2016, 05:11:38 pm »

Nah--and no worries.  I wash my hands of the #neverTrumps knowing they're a small--and shrinking--subgroup; and grateful that soon they'll be stranded in the nosebleed section of political relevance.    ^-^

Yes, that is exactly what the GOP Leadership and establishment have said they intended to do all along to the Conservative base of the party that they hold in contempt and disgust.

Nice to know you people are on-board for McConnell's purge and applaud it.

You'll get your wish.

So you guys will need to keep pandering to disgruntled Bernie supporters for Trump in the general, because you may get help from Republican sheep, but you will NOT get it from Principled Conservatives.

So celebrate our diminishment along with the Democrats and the Ruling Class Establishment.  You earned the party.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 05:12:06 pm by INVAR »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2016, 05:41:20 pm »
Well, seems several of the nicks are the same people, and the overall population sample for the polls is not large to start with. Yes many of the FR rejects congregate here now. However that does not translate to the general population as the primary voting has shown.

Does it bother you that the GOP is being taken over by the alt-right?   
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Offline EC

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2016, 06:06:44 pm »
Well, seems several of the nicks are the same people, and the overall population sample for the polls is not large to start with. Yes many of the FR rejects congregate here now. However that does not translate to the general population as the primary voting has shown.

You know, I do find this fascinating.

Mesaclone wanders in and his very first post is that the board is infested with Dem plants. Now you are telling us several members are sock puppets. The only things you two have in common, apart from rank stupidity, is you are both all Trump, all the time. Makes me wonder how many Trump supporters project their own online actions on others.  After all, in that handy little article on how to spot a leftist that you posted, one of the points was the use of the word hater to shut down discussion. I ain't seen that used by any but Trump supporters here ...
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Offline Paladin

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2016, 04:33:46 am »
Does it bother you that the GOP is being taken over by the alt-right?

Just terrible especially when one considers how well the establishment GOP has handled Obama these last 7+ years.
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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2016, 04:53:22 am »
Yes, that is exactly what the GOP Leadership and establishment have said they intended to do all along to the Conservative base of the party that they hold in contempt and disgust.

Nice to know you people are on-board for McConnell's purge and applaud it.

You'll get your wish.

So you guys will need to keep pandering to disgruntled Bernie supporters for Trump in the general, because you may get help from Republican sheep, but you will NOT get it from Principled Conservatives.

So celebrate our diminishment along with the Democrats and the Ruling Class Establishment.  You earned the party.

Earned it and can have it.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2016, 12:35:38 am »
You know, I do find this fascinating.

Mesaclone wanders in and his very first post is that the board is infested with Dem plants. Now you are telling us several members are sock puppets. The only things you two have in common, apart from rank stupidity, is you are both all Trump, all the time. Makes me wonder how many Trump supporters project their own online actions on others.  After all, in that handy little article on how to spot a leftist that you posted, one of the points was the use of the word hater to shut down discussion. I ain't seen that used by any but Trump supporters here ...

Just quit with the juvenile conspiracy theories and silly code word stuff.

Its simple. Trump won, or is certain to win, the majority of delegates in the GOP primary. The vast majority of Republicans, including those who are very conservative, support him in the general election against Hillary Clinton...in fact, there's a new Fox poll out today that has him beating Hillary after having trailed her by double digits just 2 months ago. So to put it gently, the NeverTrump bunch is now just a tiny core of self-righteous and short sighted fringers who are willing to shoot the party in the foot because "their guy" got his butt kicked in the primaries.

NeverTrumps are not more principled, more moral, nor more discerning than the rest of the party that is now rallying to our nominee...they are just more arrogant and childish. So you can drop this holier than thou crapola about who really is and is not a conservative. NeverTrump is little more than just the self serving skewed perspective of a bitter and ever shrinking collection of angry ex-Cruz supporters...with a sprinkling of pro-Hillary types joining their on-line crusade against the GOP nominee.

 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 12:36:04 am by Mesaclone »
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: FINAL DRAFT: Petition to Deny Trump The Nomination at the Convention
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2016, 12:40:19 am »
Does it bother you that the GOP is being taken over by the alt-right?

I have no idea what is the definition of "alt-right."

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