Author Topic: The first major poll on ‘bathroom bills’ is good news for transgender advocates  (Read 1489 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/10/the-first-major-poll-on-bathroom-bills-is-here-and-its-good-news-for-transgender-advocates/?postshare=3091462882528895&tid=ss_tw

The first major poll on ‘bathroom bills’ is good news for transgender advocates

By Amber Phillips May 10 at 7:00 AM


A few weeks ago, we noted that we don't really know how Americans feel about so-called bathroom bills, an issue that has taken hold thanks to a controversial new North Carolina law. There just hasn't been a ton of public polling on this.

Now we have a better idea. And it's not good news for supporters of what North Carolina Republicans are doing.

A CNN/ORC poll released Monday found a majority of Americans (57 percent) don't agree with bathroom bills like the one North Carolina is defending that restrict where transgender people can use the bathroom, while 38 percent
 
As usual with contentious issues, there's a partisan trend. People tend to agree with their political leaders on this:



 
But notice that last number. Almost half of Republicans are opposed to laws requiring transgender people to use the bathroom on their birth certificates. In fact, according to the CNN poll, Republicans are actually split 48-48 about whether to support these bills.

If Republicans are indeed split in their support for bathroom bills, it's in stark contrast to the news in recent days. In North Carolina, the epicenter of these bathroom debates, GOP  leaders are digging in their heels to defend it, betting voters will back them up in November. They just sued the federal government to try to keep it on the books. (The government counter-sued.)

Socially conservative North Carolina may be in a slightly different political situation than the rest of the nation. A recent Elon University poll showed 49 percent of all North Carolina voters agreed with the law's aim to stop cities from passing ordinances that open up bathrooms to transgender people; but that same poll showed Gov. Pat McCrory's (R) Democratic opponent with his biggest lead yet in the tight race.

[The legal fight over North Carolina's transgender bathroom law, explained in 4 questions]

This is one of those issues where it's easy to slice and dice the numbers to make your case that you are doing the popular thing. Americans' -- and particularly Republicans' -- support for bathroom bills might depend how you frame the question. As we saw in Houston in November, opponents of an LGBT non-discrimination ordinance overwhelmingly defeated it by framing the issue about bathrooms, specifically the predators who might exploit an open-door policy.

This CNN poll was more straightforward, if not a bit confusing. It asked whether people support laws requiring transgender individuals to use facilities that do not correspond to their gender identity (i.e. requiring transgender people to use the bathroom they may not normally use).

The answer may also depend on who's going to the bathroom. A CBS poll in 2014 found the exact opposite result when asking about school-aged transgender children and what bathroom they should use. Fifty-nine percent of respondents said the children should use the bathroom of the gender of their birth. Let's not forget that this bathroom bill debate is as much about adults as it is children; several recent lawsuits and flash points have centered on which locker rooms transgender students can use.

But on the whole, this poll is positive for transgender advocates. And there is more good news: Americans' support for opening up bathrooms (and Republicans' indecision) appears to be happening without one of the driving forces in the gay marriage debate -- a familiarity with the LGBT group involved. Eighty-five percent of respondents told CNN they don't have a friend or family member who is transgender.

The first major national poll on transgender adults in bathrooms would suggest the nation is leaning toward allowing them into bathrooms -- without even getting to know them first. That's pretty remarkable. As we've documented, Americans' familiarity with gay people in their personal lives was a huge contributing factor in reshaping public opinion over gay rights in favor of same-sex marriage so quickly.

Clearly, there's still a lot we don't know/a lot that isn't settled about public opinion in the bathroom debate. But the initial results look promising for LGBT advocates, who hope to convince the greater public there's no real danger to opening up their bathrooms and locker rooms to trangender people. This poll suggests Americans might be amendable to that argument.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 01:54:11 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline don-o

  • Worldview Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,280
  • FR Class of '98
Vichy Pubbies getting in formation...

North Carolina Republicans brace for 'bathroom law' blowback

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205887.0.html

Offline WAC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,904
An understanding of transgenders from a medical standpoint ...worth the read.....


Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: ‘Transgendered Men Don’t Become Women,’ They Become ‘Feminized Men,’ ‘Impersonators’

Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University and former psychiatrist–in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital, who has studied transgendered people for 40 years, said it is a scientific fact that “transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men.”

All such people, he explained in an article for The Witherspoon Institute [1],  “become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’”

Dr. McHugh [2], who was psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital for 26 years, the medical institute that had initially pioneered sex-change surgery – and later ceased the practice – stressed that the cultural meme, or idea that “one’s sex is fluid and a matter of choice” is extremely damaging, especially to young people.

The idea that one’s sexuality is a feeling and not a biological fact “is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges,” said Dr. McHugh in his article, Transgenderism: A Pathogenic Meme [3].

“I am ever trying to be the boy among the bystanders who points to what’s real,” said Dr. McHugh, who is also professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins.  “I do so not only because truth matters, but also because overlooked amid the hoopla—enhanced now by Bruce Jenner’s celebrity and Annie Leibovitz’s photography—stand many victims.”

“Think, for example, of the parents whom no one—not doctors, schools, nor even churches—will help to rescue their children from these strange notions of being transgendered and the problematic lives these notions herald,” warned McHugh.

They rarely find therapists who are willing to help them “work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions,” said McHugh. “Rather, they and their families find only ‘gender counselors’ who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.”

In addition, he said, “both the state and federal governments are actively seeking to block any treatments that can be construed as challenging the assumptions and choices of transgendered youngsters.”

“As part of our dedication to protecting America’s youth, this administration supports efforts to ban the use of conversion therapy for minors,” said Valerie Jarrett [4], a senior advisor to President Obama, as quoted by Dr. McHugh in his article.

However, there is plenty of evidence showing that “transgendering” is a “psychological rather than a biological matter,” said Dr. McHugh.

“In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder,” said McHugh [2].

“Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction,” he said.

In fact, at Johns Hopkins, where they pioneered sex-change-surgery, “we demonstrated that the practice brought no important benefits,” said Dr. McHugh. “As a result, we stopped offering that form of treatment in the 1970s.”

In recent years, though, the notion that one’s sex is fluid has flooded the culture. It is “reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics,” said McHugh.

It is biologically false that one can exchange one’s sex, explained McHugh [3].

“Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men,” he said.  “All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’ In that lies their problematic future.”

When “the tumult and shouting dies,” McHugh continued, “it proves not easy nor wise to live in a counterfeit sexual garb. The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people [5]—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest.”

“Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers,” said McHugh.

Nonetheless, the false “assumption that one’s sexual nature is misaligned with one’s biological sex,” can be treated with therapy and medication, said McHugh.

He further stressed that, “What is needed now is public clamor for coherent science—biological and therapeutic science—examining the real effects of these efforts to ‘support’ transgendering.”

“But gird your loins if you would confront this matter,” warned Dr. McHugh.  “Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle.”

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,531
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
I base all my important life's decisions on the results of leftist public opinion polls.  /s
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Total bunk.  Even the homo callers on the radio support keeping bathroom use restricted to actual gender.  This is a bipartisan issue.  I don't know who got polled, but the results are wrong and ridiculous.

How do you know it's wrong?  You don't like it?

http://NC officials brace themselves for bathroom blowback

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205887.msg874536/topicseen.html#msg874536
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 06:11:05 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline ConstitutionRose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,474
  • Gender: Female
Total bunk.  Even the homo callers on the radio support keeping bathroom use restricted to actual gender.  This is a bipartisan issue.  I don't know who got polled, but the results are wrong and ridiculous.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but I do know that in my circle of friends, relatives, acquaintences, and clients - are 100% in support of you pee according to what God gave you.  This includes all the Democrats.   People are not happy that the state is being punished for trying to protect bathrooms.
"Old man can't is dead.  I helped bury him."  Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quoting his grandfather.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
I don't know about the rest of the country, but I do know that in my circle of friends, relatives, acquaintences, and clients - are 100% in support of you pee according to what God gave you.  This includes all the Democrats.   People are not happy that the state is being punished for trying to protect bathrooms.

Do you not think it's more likely for a transgender female to get harrassed in a men's restroom?  I do.

There are so few transgenders that this is a nit.  And expecting an onslaught of perverts in women's restrooms is reminiscent of all the dire predictions in the 50s of ill effects of blacks using white restrooms.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,531
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
How do you know it's wrong?  You don't like it?

http://NC officials brace themselves for bathroom blowback

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,205887.msg874536/topicseen.html#msg874536

When did you start favoring the forcing of businesses to do what they don't want to?  I thought you were a libertarian.  I saw that other thread, and you don't seem to see anything wrong with cities forcing this TG bathroom business down peoples' throats.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
When did you start favoring the forcing of businesses to do what they don't want to?  I thought you were a libertarian.  I saw that other thread, and you don't seem to see anything wrong with cities forcing this TG bathroom business down peoples' throats.

The Charlotte ordinance was coercive, for sure.  But the reaction was nuclear and voters will likely force the law to be repealed, if the federal courts don't overturn it.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Because it is inconsistent with everything I hear.  I am sick of pollsters trying to claim what "we the pee-ple" think.  That's backwards.  Way too much time is spend polling uninformed opinions with dubiously gathered stats and trying to claim some sort of high ground based on that INSTEAD of having an intellectual debate and gathering actual votes, be they from pee-ple or their representatives.  Why do you think we have two idiot candidates right now?  It's because we are the instant gratification, soundbite, twitter, reality-show, facebook, daily-poll taker, slogan, porn consuming, me generation that has lost the ability to think and act rationally.

Pee in the room fitting to your body parts.  Period.  This isn't difficult.  Anyone who says differently is nuts.

I remember when polling kept showing what citizens in state after state thought about their various upcoming marriage amendment votes, only time and time again the actual votes revealed strong opinion supporting the normal definition of marriage and the amendments passed again and again.  Then what happened?  The pollsters didn't stop.  A short time later they claimed opinions had changed.  BUNK!  People may feel there is nothing they can do.  But it is because government has become all powerful and oppressive, not because the left won the argument.    People have been intimidated into silence with the labeling and targeting of dissenters.

 No.  You don't get to cheat with bogus polls claiming you've already won any more than Trump was entitled to cheat by claiming he was the winner before he actually won.

OK. Doubt the poll.  But don't doubt what this law has and will cost North Carolina in lost revenue and jobs.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline mirraflake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,199
  • Gender: Male
Do you not think it's more likely for a transgender female to get harrassed in a men's restroom?  I do.

There are so few transgenders that this is a nit.  And expecting an onslaught of perverts in women's restrooms is reminiscent of all the dire predictions in the 50s of ill effects of blacks using white restrooms.

I also think it is an overrated problem.  Trans people are .03% of the population. The chance of even running into one except for some certain locals is slim to none.

 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 07:28:29 pm by mirraflake »

Offline MBB1984

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 853
As with many Conservative issues, Conservatives have not eloquently given the best defense on this issue and this is reflected in the polls.  Conservatives should make it a privacy and safety issue for women and particularly young girls who are quite vulnerable to attacks by disguised, predatory males in a confined arena.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 07:40:40 pm by MBB1984 »

Offline Idiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,631
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/10/the-first-major-poll-on-bathroom-bills-is-here-and-its-good-news-for-transgender-advocates/?postshare=3091462882528895&tid=ss_tw

The first major poll on ‘bathroom bills’ is good news for transgender advocates

By Amber Phillips May 10 at 7:00 AM


A few weeks ago, we noted that we don't really know how Americans feel about so-called bathroom bills, an issue that has taken hold thanks to a controversial new North Carolina law. There just hasn't been a ton of public polling on this.

Now we have a better idea. And it's not good news for supporters of what North Carolina Republicans are doing.

A CNN/ORC poll released Monday found a majority of Americans (57 percent) don't agree with bathroom bills like the one North Carolina is defending that restrict where transgender people can use the bathroom, while 38 percent
 
As usual with contentious issues, there's a partisan trend. People tend to agree with their political leaders on this:



 
But notice that last number. Almost half of Republicans are opposed to laws requiring transgender people to use the bathroom on their birth certificates. In fact, according to the CNN poll, Republicans are actually split 48-48 about whether to support these bills.

If Republicans are indeed split in their support for bathroom bills, it's in stark contrast to the news in recent days. In North Carolina, the epicenter of these bathroom debates, GOP  leaders are digging in their heels to defend it, betting voters will back them up in November. They just sued the federal government to try to keep it on the books. (The government counter-sued.)

Socially conservative North Carolina may be in a slightly different political situation than the rest of the nation. A recent Elon University poll showed 49 percent of all North Carolina voters agreed with the law's aim to stop cities from passing ordinances that open up bathrooms to transgender people; but that same poll showed Gov. Pat McCrory's (R) Democratic opponent with his biggest lead yet in the tight race.

[The legal fight over North Carolina's transgender bathroom law, explained in 4 questions]

This is one of those issues where it's easy to slice and dice the numbers to make your case that you are doing the popular thing. Americans' -- and particularly Republicans' -- support for bathroom bills might depend how you frame the question. As we saw in Houston in November, opponents of an LGBT non-discrimination ordinance overwhelmingly defeated it by framing the issue about bathrooms, specifically the predators who might exploit an open-door policy.

This CNN poll was more straightforward, if not a bit confusing. It asked whether people support laws requiring transgender individuals to use facilities that do not correspond to their gender identity (i.e. requiring transgender people to use the bathroom they may not normally use).

The answer may also depend on who's going to the bathroom. A CBS poll in 2014 found the exact opposite result when asking about school-aged transgender children and what bathroom they should use. Fifty-nine percent of respondents said the children should use the bathroom of the gender of their birth. Let's not forget that this bathroom bill debate is as much about adults as it is children; several recent lawsuits and flash points have centered on which locker rooms transgender students can use.

But on the whole, this poll is positive for transgender advocates. And there is more good news: Americans' support for opening up bathrooms (and Republicans' indecision) appears to be happening without one of the driving forces in the gay marriage debate -- a familiarity with the LGBT group involved. Eighty-five percent of respondents told CNN they don't have a friend or family member who is transgender.

The first major national poll on transgender adults in bathrooms would suggest the nation is leaning toward allowing them into bathrooms -- without even getting to know them first. That's pretty remarkable. As we've documented, Americans' familiarity with gay people in their personal lives was a huge contributing factor in reshaping public opinion over gay rights in favor of same-sex marriage so quickly.

Clearly, there's still a lot we don't know/a lot that isn't settled about public opinion in the bathroom debate. But the initial results look promising for LGBT advocates, who hope to convince the greater public there's no real danger to opening up their bathrooms and locker rooms to trangender people. This poll suggests Americans might be amendable to that argument.

Are we this far gone as a society?  Good grief!  This is insanity.......

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,531
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
The Charlotte ordinance was coercive, for sure.  But the reaction was nuclear and voters will likely force the law to be repealed, if the federal courts don't overturn it.

That's an interesting perspective.  I'm not sure the state had much of a choice, depending on the level of the hue and cry from the citizens.  As for the courts, I don't know that either.  I'm not familiar with that circuit.  I know if it was out here in the Ninth, it would have been overturned yesterday.  If the voters force a change, that would be OK by me.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: