TRUMP SOARS IN NEW POLLS: +26 PA...+34 CT...+38 RI...

[Bill Cipher]

Well, he is a very good dog =)

That I can believe. 

[Bill Cipher]

Condescension and anger.

That seems to be your "go to" traits here on the board. I'm sure you are a very nice person in reality, but like your comrades you've been consumed by a fervor that leaves no room for reasoned discussion, common sense, and...yes...the dirty word...compromise with your fellow Republicans/Conservatives.

Its unfortunate, because no party can survive if a large portion of its members are too self important...too morally superior...to accept when the party nominates someone who isn't "there guy". Your way or the highway...probably feels good...gives you that sense of "we're better than you and won't compromise our superior values"...but in reality its just simple arrogance and ego. Qualities reflected quite profoundly in your favored candidate...and admittedly, in all presidential candidates to some degree.

The "anger" quality that you assign to Trump and his follwers is the very trait you display continuously in these discussions. Its breathtakingly hypocritical and this kind of self-blindness has become the hallmark of the hard core anti-Trump Cruzians. Most of you are completely. and astoundingly, unaware that you are simply projecting your own shortcomings on to the candidate you oppose...all the while cheering on an unlikeable, condescending, morally pompous, evangelist who has no appeal to anyone outside of his small sect of the "Chosen".

You can call it what you want.  Party loyalty only goes so far.  Where it does not go for me is when the party nominates someone whose political predilections are indistinguishable from those of the other party.  And his words by themselves count very little because he has already stated in his own book that he uses creative hyperbole - his euphemism for lying - during negotiations because it's all about making the other guy feel like he got what he wanted, whether or not he actually got what he wanted. 

Based on Trump's own past, and taking into account his admitted propensity for lying to get what he wants, I see no reason to believe that his Supreme Court picks will not be just as liberal as Clintons would be.  And given his admitted penchant for bullying and authoritarianism, I see no reason to believe that he will not continue Obama's unconstitutional use of executive orders to get by fiat what he cannot get by constitutional vote of Congress. 

In short, I will not vote for Trump in the primary, and I will not vote for him in the general, because I will not vote for a liberal, whether openly liberal like Clinton or in sheep's clothing like Trump.  "Never" means never. 

[Mesaclone]

I notice you didn't answer my charge that if WE are all those things we despise in Trump, then YOU are all those things you hate about Cruz.  I guess you realized you don't really have any idea what "projection" is.

Trump said we must kill the wives and children of terrorists.  He didn't say anything about terrorists hiding among them.  He backed off, of course, after the military said they would refuse such orders.  But it's still a disqualifier that a presidential candidate would propose something like this.

The answer is that you're drawing a moral/intellectual equivalent...where none exists. I am not fanatical...because I can support Mr. Trump but will STILL vote for Mr. Cruz if he wins the nomination. "Taking my ball and going home" if your guy loses...THAT is the hallmark of emotional immaturity, and THAT is why it is so clear that you are simply projecting your own issues towards Mr. Trump.

As to Mr. Trump's premise, you simply aren't comprehending the...rather obvious...context. That being our current approach which won't even hit a convoy of ISIS supplies because we might kill civilian truck drivers. Trump's point is that we cannot avoid, and must not establish military policy that precludes, killing civilians (including family members of ISIS leaders) who are in the way of taking out the ISIS command and control. That does not mean we don't do our best to avoid such an event, but it goes to a clear policy in which taking out their leadership is the highest priority. That is how a war MUST be fought.

And you didn't answer my question.

Do you think FDR and George W Bush were war criminals?

[Mesaclone]

You can call it what you want.  Party loyalty only goes so far.  Where it does not go for me is when the party nominates someone whose political predilections are indistinguishable from those of the other party.  And his words by themselves count very little because he has already stated in his own book that he uses creative hyperbole - his euphemism for lying - during negotiations because it's all about making the other guy feel like he got what he wanted, whether or not he actually got what he wanted. 

Based on Trump's own past, and taking into account his admitted propensity for lying to get what he wants, I see no reason to believe that his Supreme Court picks will not be just as liberal as Clintons would be.  And given his admitted penchant for bullying and authoritarianism, I see no reason to believe that he will not continue Obama's unconstitutional use of executive orders to get by fiat what he cannot get by constitutional vote of Congress. 

In short, I will not vote for Trump in the primary, and I will not vote for him in the general, because I will not vote for a liberal, whether openly liberal like Clinton or in sheep's clothing like Trump.  "Never" means never.

If that were demonstrably true, you'd have a point.

And I understand, you can only justify your "neverTrump" position by pretending there are no differences between Hillary and Trump. But honestly, that is a ludicrous and indefensible position.

Hillary and Trump hold different positions on nearly every important issue. Would argue that he's not a pure Capitalist at the very least? Get serious, because his upcoming opponent is essentially a Socialist. No comparison between the two on that topic alone could conclude they are "the same".

Does Hillary support a Wall?
Does Hillary support "Scalia-like" nominees to the Supreme Court?
Does Hillary support the repeal of Obamacare?
Does Hillary support increasing the size and strength of our military?

No honest person can claim these two candidates do not differ on a whole host of issues. I realize you're going to play the "he used to be a liberal supporter" and " we can't believe what he says" card...but that's a copout. Any GOP nominee will be tied to his platform AND his party for political support in office...he won't be able to stray far from his stated positions, even if he were so inclined. So you need to drop this strawman stuff and look at his actual, and current, positions.

[sinkspur]

The answer is that you're drawing a moral/intellectual equivalent...where none exists. I am not fanatical...because I can support Mr. Trump but will STILL vote for Mr. Cruz if he wins the nomination. "Taking my ball and going home" if your guy loses...THAT is the hallmark of emotional immaturity, and THAT is why it is so clear that you are simply projecting your own issues towards Mr. Trump.

As to Mr. Trump's premise, you simply aren't comprehending the...rather obvious...context. That being our current approach which won't even hit a convoy of ISIS supplies because we might kill civilian truck drivers. Trump's point is that we cannot avoid, and must not establish military policy that precludes, killing civilians (including family members of ISIS leaders) who are in the way of taking out the ISIS command and control. That does not mean we don't do our best to avoid such an event, but it goes to a clear policy in which taking out their leadership is the highest priority. That is how a war MUST be fought.

Not voting for Trump is not voting for Trump.  It's not a matter of "taking my ball and going home." I am not obligated to vote for anybody.  Hell, over 100 million voting age Americans will not vote for anybody in November.   At least I will vote for Republicans in down-ticket races in my state. 

So try your attempt at shaming on somebody else.  And you still indicate you have no idea what projection is. 

Trump never qualified his remarks, made in a debate, about not killing innocent women and children apart from their terrorist relatives or compatriots. That's why the military had to step in and say they would not obey such orders. 

Of course FDR and Bush were not war criminals, but Trump would be if he ordered women and children to be directly killed as he did in the debate.

#NeverTrump means Never Trump.

[musiclady]

Oh, I do have an idea. A very good one, based on the work of...well...every modern scientist with any credibility whatsoever. But lets move on from that...as I'm aware you will simply evade giving a real answer.

As for condescension, look hard in the mirror and you'll see it in action. You don't simply go after Mr. Trump, you have called those of us who support him a whole range of "condescending" terms. Do you deny this?

Your condescension drips from every post, including this one.  But I'll have to admit that you are quite the evangelist for elitism, and I admire your tenacity.

You can spin tall tales all you want, clone, but it doesn't make them true.   

Your only recourse against the TRUTH about Donald Trump, his Progressivism, his desire for big government, his total disregard of the Constitution, his degeneracy, his debasement of women, his pathological lying, is to attack those of us who see who he really is, and care  enough to sound the alarm and hope people heed.

We don't want a Big Government Progressive to be President.  We don't want Trump to win the nomination because Hillary will destroy him in the general, and we don't want a completely dishonorable man to represent the Republican party in this election, or any other.

Sorry if our persistence in telling the truth bugs you, but your whining and spinning isn't going to stop us.

He may have you fooled, but he hasn't fooled the majority of Conservatives, and we're not going to stop telling the truth.

[Mesaclone]

Not voting for Trump is not voting for Trump.  It's not a matter of "taking my ball and going home." I am not obligated to vote for anybody.  Hell, over 100 million voting age Americans will not vote for anybody in November.   At least I will vote for Republicans in down-ticket races in my state. 

So try your attempt at shaming on somebody else.  And you still indicate you have no idea what projection is. 

Trump never qualified his remarks, made in a debate, about not killing innocent women and children apart from their terrorist relatives or compatriots. That's why the military had to step in and say they would not obey such orders. 

Of course FDR and Bush were not war criminals, but Trump would be if he ordered women and children to be directly killed as he did in the debate.

#NeverTrump means Never Trump.

FDR ordered the deliberate bombing of non-military targets across all of Japan...including the dropping of two Atomic bombs. So, by your own criteria for Trump, FDR was a war criminal.  The truth is, in bombing civil targets in Japan he was doing the right thing. As for Trump qualifying his remarks, he made numerous statements doing so...which you seem to want to ignore for some self-serving reason.

And another point, the military did not say it would disobey a Trump order. Some military leaders clarified that they would not obey an unlawful order...a position every officer in the military has ALWAYS been obligated to support. Bombing civilians in the way of hitting command and control targets, as Trump advocates, is not a unlawful order. Therefore, no conflict between President Trump and the military exists on this issue.

You are right on not being obligated to vote for anyone. As are all Republicans. But its also true that if we don't all vote for WHOMEVER our nominee is, we will lose. So ultimately, you WILL choose between Clinton and Trump...either by voting or not voting...and your choice, along with millions of others will put in the position of being responsible for the outcome. So while you have no obligation to vote for anyone, you cannot escape the obligation to bear the consequences of that choice.

But really, its less about any obligations than it is about common sense. Common sense dictates that a party...or conservatives more broadly...vote for the least liberal available candidate. And only a total fool, or someone trying to justify a childish need to "take their ball and go home" could argue that Hillary is not WAY more liberal than ANY of the potential GOP nominees.

[Bill Cipher]

FDR ordered the deliberate bombing of non-military targets across all of Japan...including the dropping of two Atomic bombs. So, by your own criteria for Trump, FDR was a war criminal.  The truth is, in bombing civil targets in Japan he was doing the right thing. As for Trump qualifying his remarks, he made numerous statements doing so...which you seem to want to ignore for some self-serving reason.

And another point, the military did not say it would disobey a Trump order. Some military leaders clarified that they would not obey an unlawful order...a position every officer in the military has ALWAYS been obligated to support. Bombing civilians in the way of hitting command and control targets, as Trump advocates, is not a unlawful order. Therefore, no conflict between President Trump and the military exists on this issue.

You are right on not being obligated to vote for anyone. As are all Republicans. But its also true that if we don't all vote for WHOMEVER our nominee is, we will lose. So ultimately, you WILL choose between Clinton and Trump...either by voting or not voting...and your choice, along with millions of others will put in the position of being responsible for the outcome. So while you have no obligation to vote for anyone, you cannot escape the obligation to bear the consequences of that choice.

But really, its less about any obligations than it is about common sense. Common sense dictates that a party...or conservatives more broadly...vote for the least liberal available candidate. And only a total fool, or someone trying to justify a childish need to "take their ball and go home" could argue that Hillary is not WAY more liberal than ANY of the potential GOP nominees.

Your misstatement re FDR and dropping the bomb is so totally off mark it makes the rest of your post meaningless.  Are we at war?  Is the DNC the Japanese?  In my hypothetical?  No.  This makes comparing apples to oranges look like comparing cloned fruit to itself. 

Furthermore, even if we apply it, the aggressors were the Japanese, and in my hypothetical I see no objection to my using the gun to kill the terrorist, even if he has a companion who egged him on but wasn't armed and would not have done the shooting himself. 

Apples.
Oranges. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Condescension and anger.

That seems to be your "go to" traits here on the board. I'm sure you are a very nice person in reality, but like your comrades you've been consumed by a fervor that leaves no room for reasoned discussion, common sense, and...yes...the dirty word...compromise with your fellow Republicans/Conservatives.

Its unfortunate, because no party can survive if a large portion of its members are too self important...too morally superior...to accept when the party nominates someone who isn't "there guy". Your way or the highway...probably feels good...gives you that sense of "we're better than you and won't compromise our superior values"...but in reality its just simple arrogance and ego. Qualities reflected quite profoundly in your favored candidate...and admittedly, in all presidential candidates to some degree.

The "anger" quality that you assign to Trump and his follwers is the very trait you display continuously in these discussions. Its breathtakingly hypocritical and this kind of self-blindness has become the hallmark of the hard core anti-Trump Cruzians. Most of you are completely. and astoundingly, unaware that you are simply projecting your own shortcomings on to the candidate you oppose...all the while cheering on an unlikeable, condescending, morally pompous, evangelist who has no appeal to anyone outside of his small sect of the "Chosen". 

Very well said.   

[sinkspur]

You are right on not being obligated to vote for anyone. As are all Republicans. But its also true that if we don't all vote for WHOMEVER our nominee is, we will lose. So ultimately, you WILL choose between Clinton and Trump...either by voting or not voting...and your choice, along with millions of others will put in the position of being responsible for the outcome. So while you have no obligation to vote for anyone, you cannot escape the obligation to bear the consequences of that choice.

My last word on this:  YOU and your fellow Trumpkins foisted this dolt on the rest of us so it is YOU who will bear the consequences of YOUR choice, not me.  We told you and told you he could not win and he cannot win. 

[DCPatriot]

My last word on this:  YOU and your fellow Trumpkins foisted this dolt on the rest of us so it is YOU who will bear the consequences of YOUR choice, not me.  We told you and told you he could not win and he cannot win.

....except, he's winning.

Hopefully, Sink...old buddy....your missing vote won't matter.   For it looks like a lot of Bernie supporters feel the same way you do, and will stay home in November.

[Bigun]

....except, he's winning.

Hopefully, Sink...old buddy....your missing vote won't matter.   For it looks like a lot of Bernie supporters feel the same way you do, and will stay home in November.

What exactly is he winning?

[AnybodyButaDem]

My last word on this:  YOU and your fellow Trumpkins foisted this dolt on the rest of us so it is YOU who will bear the consequences of YOUR choice, not me.  We told you and told you he could not win and he cannot win.

Classic liberal thinking.  Not taking responsibility for your own actions, and blaming those who don't think exactly like you think.

Using that logic, do I get to blame you for foisting the losers McRomney on the rest of us, so you're 100% responsible for 8 years of Obama.  I even voted for those losers, unlike you who is taking your 4-square ball off the schoolyard and running home crying.

Never thought I'd see these types of excuses on a "conservative" message board, yet here we are.   

[AnybodyButaDem]

What exactly is he winning?

After today, almost 4 million more votes in the primaries than any other GOP candidate.

Look, we know that the truth doesn't matter to you, anyhow, after your claim about him only winning NY with over 40% of the vote.  Nice how you ran away from that false claim.  Some of us noticed.

[DCPatriot]

[Bigun]

After today, almost 4 million more votes in the primaries than any other GOP candidate.

Look, we know that the truth doesn't matter to you, anyhow, after your claim about him only winning NY with over 40% of the vote.  Nice how you ran away from that false claim.  Some of us noticed.

Oh but the TRUTH is the ONLY thing that matters to me!

Many more have voted for someone other than Trump! MANY more and a good many of them are like me! #nevertrump

We'll see how much those votes are worth at the convention!

I haven't "run away"  from anything ever and won't now!

Only genuine REPUBLICANS are going to be voting at that convention.

[sinkspur]

Primaries.

Just wait for the general, DC.  He won't win a single one of those states.

[DCPatriot]

Primaries.

Just wait for the general, DC.  He won't win a single one of those states.

Surely, you're not serious!

[truth_seeker]

Denial is growing stronger by the hour.

[Mesaclone]

Denial is growing stronger by the hour.

Yes, a panic is setting in. The "Chosen" boy going down.

A new poll just came out from NBC...Sink...has Trump at 50% amongst Republicans for the first time. Guess where Cruz is...almost exactly half of that. If the man is getting crushed 50-26 amongst Republicans, how in the heck would he do better with Democrats thrown in the mix?

And if Trump loses because you and your ilk sit things out, then the responsibility is yours 100%. Conversely, if you and your ilk supported him by voting and he still lost....THEN the responsibility could be said to rest with Trump and his supporters. Quit shirking your role in this...you can vote for whomever you choose, but don't pretend you are not part of the problem. You are.

[HonestJohn]

My last word on this:  YOU and your fellow Trumpkins foisted this dolt on the rest of us so it is YOU who will bear the consequences of YOUR choice, not me.  We told you and told you he could not win and he cannot win.

Well, Trump's support came from those wanting to destroy the GOP.  I'm inclined to now grant that wish.

(careful what you wish for, as you might just get it)

[A-Lert]

Well, Trump's support came from those wanting to destroy the GOP.

 

[musiclady]

Well, Trump's support came from those wanting to destroy the GOP.  I'm inclined to now grant that wish.

(careful what you wish for, as you might just get it)

Yes.  And who would join forces with those wanting to destroy the Republican party?

A DEMOCRAT like Trump, and the liberals who follow him......

[LonestarDream]

That's a false statement.  Retract it or be considered dishonest.

Bigun is a good guy.

[musiclady]

Bigun is a good guy.

Indeed.  Bigun is a proven, consistent, honest, intelligent, well-versed Conservative.

Calling him a liar is below the belt, and just plain wrong.....