(POLL #2) VOTE! IF TRUMP IS THE NOMINEE WILL YOU VOTE FOR HIM?

[Bill Cipher]

We are in agreement on that. 

Same now - I don't care who you are, if you promote NeverTrump when Trump is the nominee - you are helping Hillary Clinton. 

NeverHillary is where all of us should be. 

If a terrorist gives me a gun and tells me to shoot one hostage or else he'll shoot all 100, does that make me the murderer of the 100 if I refuse to shoot the 1?

Just so, if I refuse to vote for STrump that does not make me a voter for Clinton.  To become a murderer I have to commit an actual murder, and to become a Clinton voter I must actually cast a vote for Clinton.  Nothing else will do. 

[Free Vulcan]

Well I agree with them in that case. You really have no right to complain about Obama if you left the Presidential ticket blank in 2012. Just saying.

I'll always complain about a liberal.

That being said, I have no illusions that who ever is elected President is going to make much difference. The reason the country is in the shape its in is in my view not because of the political leaders that have been elected but because as a culture we have lost our moral foundation. When I grew up people did the right thing day in and day out with no recognition or reward because the values of hard work and self reliance had been ingrained in them since birth.

Today it seems that the attitude is that if I vote for my team every four years and we win and everything will be better. That philosophy  has not worked out very well, change can only happen from the bottom up. Conservatives who think the top of the ticket is going to make any meaningful change to the culture are just as deluded as libs who think the government giving them free stuff well make their lives better.

I've been screaming this for years. Just like the Fed court ruling in favor of the NC voter ID law today, states have lots of power to change the country if citizens would just focus there rather than the President.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Well I agree with them in that case. You really have no right to complain about Obama if you left the Presidential ticket blank in 2012. Just saying.

I'll always complain about a liberal.

That being said, I have no illusions that who ever is elected President is going to make much difference. The reason the country is in the shape its in is in my view not because of the political leaders that have been elected but because as a culture we have lost our moral foundation. When I grew up people did the right thing day in and day out with no recognition or reward because the values of hard work and self reliance had been ingrained in them since birth.

Today it seems that the attitude is that if I vote for my team every four years and we win and everything will be better. That philosophy  has not worked out very well, change can only happen from the bottom up. Conservatives who think the top of the ticket is going to make any meaningful change to the culture are just as deluded as libs who think the government giving them free stuff well make their lives better.

GOP owns from the bottom up. We have a record majority at state and local levels.

President appoints USSC, period. That's why bottom up ain't good enough any more. We need the Presidency to appoint better judges and justices. Also the President has enormous, enormous power in a federal republic.

[alicewonders]

If a terrorist gives me a gun and tells me to shoot one hostage or else he'll shoot all 100, does that make me the murderer of the 100 if I refuse to shoot the 1?

Just so, if I refuse to vote for STrump that does not make me a voter for Clinton.  To become a murderer I have to commit an actual murder, and to become a Clinton voter I must actually cast a vote for Clinton.  Nothing else will do.

It doesn't make you the murderer of the 100 - but it makes you a pretty bad mathematician. 

You have the power to save the lives of 99 people if you kill one.  Why would you not take that chance?  And, at the same time - maybe when they give you the gun to shoot the one - you can figure out a way to shoot one of them instead, or create a chaos event where you might have a better chance of survival.  When you give up the power to shoot that gun - you give up your power. 

I wasn't calling anyone a Clinton voter - I said that to not vote for the nominee is to help Hillary.  A Clinton helper.  Blame the GOP for not instilling loyalty and trust - and that's a righteous blame - but you still have a vote.  And by saying there would be no difference in a Clinton or Trump presidency - OR those who say Trump would be worse....I would say to you that you are bad mathematicians. 

[montanajoe]

There are no doubt good reasons for others to hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils, but those reasons don't work for me.
I'll vote for a Conservative or I'll leave the ballot for that office blank.

YMMV

[sinkspur]

It doesn't make you the murderer of the 100 - but it makes you a pretty bad mathematician. 

You have the power to save the lives of 99 people if you kill one.  Why would you not take that chance?  And, at the same time - maybe when they give you the gun to shoot the one - you can figure out a way to shoot one of them instead, or create a chaos event where you might have a better chance of survival.  When you give up the power to shoot that gun - you give up your power. 

I wasn't calling anyone a Clinton voter - I said that to not vote for the nominee is to help Hillary.  A Clinton helper.  Blame the GOP for not instilling loyalty and trust - and that's a righteous blame - but you still have a vote.  And by saying there would be no difference in a Clinton or Trump presidency - OR those who say Trump would be worse....I would say to you that you are bad mathematicians.

And I could say, with some justification, that you Trumpkins have enabled a man who is not qualified for the office, is not fit for the office, has no knowledge of policy, has no moral compass, and who exhibits authoritarian traits.  These alone, and there are others I could list, justify my not voting for Trump. 

It is YOU who are at fault for foisting this carnival barker on the rest of the GOP.  Not voting for Trump is not voting for Trump.  Period.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

There are no doubt good reasons for others to hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils, but those reasons don't work for me.
I'll vote for a Conservative or I'll leave the ballot for that office blank.

YMMV

You may vote for whomever you wish, but IMO, you forfeit the right to complain about said person if you refused to vote against them.

[Bill Cipher]

It doesn't make you the murderer of the 100 - but it makes you a pretty bad mathematician. 

You have the power to save the lives of 99 people if you kill one.  Why would you not take that chance?  And, at the same time - maybe when they give you the gun to shoot the one - you can figure out a way to shoot one of them instead, or create a chaos event where you might have a better chance of survival.  When you give up the power to shoot that gun - you give up your power. 

I wasn't calling anyone a Clinton voter - I said that to not vote for the nominee is to help Hillary.  A Clinton helper.  Blame the GOP for not instilling loyalty and trust - and that's a righteous blame - but you still have a vote.  And by saying there would be no difference in a Clinton or Trump presidency - OR those who say Trump would be worse....I would say to you that you are bad mathematicians. 

You're trying to dodge the question.  Answer it honestly: if I refuse to shoot the one, am I therefore the murderer of the 100?  100 because the terrorist will shoot all of them if I don't shoot the one.  Answer it honestly, don't try to dance around it. 

[Bill Cipher]

It doesn't make you the murderer of the 100 - but it makes you a pretty bad mathematician. 

You have the power to save the lives of 99 people if you kill one.  Why would you not take that chance?  And, at the same time - maybe when they give you the gun to shoot the one - you can figure out a way to shoot one of them instead, or create a chaos event where you might have a better chance of survival.  When you give up the power to shoot that gun - you give up your power. 

I wasn't calling anyone a Clinton voter - I said that to not vote for the nominee is to help Hillary.  A Clinton helper.  Blame the GOP for not instilling loyalty and trust - and that's a righteous blame - but you still have a vote.  And by saying there would be no difference in a Clinton or Trump presidency - OR those who say Trump would be worse....I would say to you that you are bad mathematicians. 

I don't wish to be a murderer at all.  And I don't wish to vote for a liberal, and Trump is essentially liberal lite.  His Supreme Court picks wil almost certainly be just as liberal as hers. 

[montanajoe]

You may vote for whomever you wish, but IMO, you forfeit the right to complain about said person if you refused to vote against them.

I can't imagine anyone caring whether I have a right to complain about anything or anyone. That fact that you do leaves me impressed my my omnipotence 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I can't imagine anyone caring whether I have a right to complain about anything or anyone. That fact that you do leaves me impressed my my omnipotence 

That's fine, just stating my opinion though.

[montanajoe]

That's fine, just stating my opinion though.

I don't mean to come off as a wise ass but this lesser of two evils bs drives me up a wall.

In my view the reason for Trump is that each time the choice is between the lessor of two evils in the next election cycle a more liberal candidate is nominated by the GOP.

Refusing to vote for anyone who is not Conservative is the only way I can see to eventually get a conservative.

[Bill Cipher]

I don't mean to come off as a wise ass but this lesser of two evils bs drives me up a wall.

In my view the reason for Trump is that each time the choice is between the lessor of two evils in the next election cycle a more liberal candidate is nominated by the GOP.

Refusing to vote for anyone who is not Conservative is the only way I can see to eventually get a conservative.

Exactly.  Party loyalty only goes but so far.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I don't mean to come off as a wise ass but this lesser of two evils bs drives me up a wall.

I'm tired of the "conservative purity test" to be honest. Granted Romney was not a good candidate but the GOP is always waiting for this perfect candidate that really doesn't exist.

Shimmering Immaculate Republican Candidate Appears Before GOP Officials

WASHINGTON—Explaining how they froze in place and stared up at the miraculous vision in rapt wonder, members of the Republican Party leadership reported that the shimmering image of an immaculate, ideal GOP presidential candidate appeared before them for a brief moment Friday and hovered in front of the party’s headquarters in Washington.

William F Buckley said we should nominate the most conservative candidate that can win. The GOP-e forgets the "most conservative" part while the ideological conservatives forget the "can win" part.

IMO that's how we ended up with Trump. And if you look at the polls, Cruz is probably second worst in terms of electability.

[Bill Cipher]

I'm tired of the "conservative purity test" to be honest. Granted Romney was not a good candidate but the GOP is always waiting for this perfect candidate that really doesn't exist.



William F Buckley said we should nominate the most conservative candidate that can win. The GOP-e forgets the "most conservative" part while the ideological conservatives forget the "can win" part.

IMO that's how we ended up with Trump. And if you look at the polls, Cruz is probably second worst in terms of electability.

Sad but true. 

[ArneFufkin]

If Trump wins the first ballot in Cleveland I will vote for him in November provided he names three to four Constitutional Conservative jurists he promises to nominate to SCOTUS when the inevitable openings occur.     I think that is the most important historical fallout from this election and if he were to assure me that he would nominate jurists like Scalia/Thomas/Rehquist/Alito to the bench he would have my  support.

I think it would be a brilliant move on his part to stand up in his victory speech in Cleveland and flatly state that his first SCOTUS nomination would be Senator Cruz.   

[montanajoe]

I'm tired of the "conservative purity test" to be honest. Granted Romney was not a good candidate but the GOP is always waiting for this perfect candidate that really doesn't exist.

Some accept Buckley's view that the most conservative candidate is  good enough. That view may have worked in the 60's but I don't think it works now. Reagan defined what a winning conservative should be today in my view e.g.  Socially Conservative, Fiscally Responsible and in favor of overwhelming Military Superiority.

That doesn't strike me as a purity test but  just common sense

[Bill Cipher]

If Trump wins the first ballot in Cleveland I will vote for him in November provided he names three to four Constitutional Conservative jurists he promises to nominate to SCOTUS when the inevitable openings occur.     I think that is the most important historical fallout from this election and if he were to assure me that he would nominate jurists like Scalia/Thomas/Rehquist/Alito to the bench he would have my  support.

I think it would be a brilliant move on his part to stand up in his victory speech in Cleveland and flatly state that his first SCOTUS nomination would be Senator Cruz.   

And can you guarantee that any such promises would not be just more "truthful hyperbole" - a euphemism for lying if ever there was one - to be dropped as soon as is convenient?

[alicewonders]

And I could say, with some justification, that you Trumpkins have enabled a man who is not qualified for the office, is not fit for the office, has no knowledge of policy, has no moral compass, and who exhibits authoritarian traits.  These alone, and there are others I could list, justify my not voting for Trump. 

It is YOU who are at fault for foisting this carnival barker on the rest of the GOP.  Not voting for Trump is not voting for Trump.  Period.

That is simply your opinion.  Opinions are not facts. 

[A-Lert]

If a terrorist gives me a gun and tells me to shoot one hostage or else he'll shoot all 100, does that make me the murderer of the 100 if I refuse to shoot the 1?

Just so, if I refuse to vote for STrump that does not make me a voter for Clinton.  To become a murderer I have to commit an actual murder, and to become a Clinton voter I must actually cast a vote for Clinton.  Nothing else will do.

If the terrorist gives you a gun and you don't shoot the SOB, you're just plain stupid.

[alicewonders]

You're trying to dodge the question.  Answer it honestly: if I refuse to shoot the one, am I therefore the murderer of the 100?  100 because the terrorist will shoot all of them if I don't shoot the one.  Answer it honestly, don't try to dance around it.

Not dancing around anything.  I answered the question directly.

It doesn't make you the murderer of the 100 - but it makes you a pretty bad mathematician.

[A-Lert]

And can you guarantee that any such promises would not be just more "truthful hyperbole" - a euphemism for lying if ever there was one - to be dropped as soon as is convenient?

Why should we believe any politician? Which one has delivered on all his promises?

[hondo68]

A write-in, but not the Canadian Senator from Texas.     Darrell Castle/Scott Bradley - Constitution Party. 

A pro-American RINO I might vote for, but not for any of the real Republicans presented.    17 candidates and none of them are noticeably better than Hillary, how do they do it?   It's such a low bar.   

[ArneFufkin]

And can you guarantee that any such promises would not be just more "truthful hyperbole" - a euphemism for lying if ever there was one - to be dropped as soon as is convenient?

No.

I can guarantee that Hillary will continue to stack the courts with "jurists" who use the Constitution like a cat uses a litter box.

I really wish Hannity or Greta or the Fox and Friends kids would pin Trump down on this.   At least somewhere amongst all the time they're feeding him grapes and rubbing him with scented oils.

[musiclady]

No.

I can guarantee that Hillary will continue to stack the courts with "jurists" who use the Constitution like a cat uses a litter box.

I really wish Hannity or Greta or the Fox and Friends kids would pin Trump down on this.   At least somewhere amongst all the time they're feeding him grapes and rubbing him with scented oils.

I'm sure they don't want to pin him down on this, Arne.  If they asked him and he actually told the truth about his leftist leanings, they'd have to backtrack on their undying devotion to him.  It would especially be hard for Hannity who continues to claim he's a principled Conservative while singing the praises of a Progressive liberal.