Author Topic: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination  (Read 1484 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Present at the Destruction

 by RICH LOWRY   

April 1, 2016 12:00 AM

 Donald Trump never ceases to amaze, but his answer at a CNN town hall about the pledge he had taken to support the Republican party’s nominee was still jaw-dropping.

Not only did Trump say that the pledge is null and void as far as he’s concerned, he also went further and told CNN’s Anderson Cooper that he doesn’t want the support of Ted Cruz.

Here is a front-runner for a major party’s nomination doing all he can to repel his nearest competitor, who has won 5,732,220 votes so far, or 29 percent of the total (Trump has won 39 percent), and speaks for a significant, and highly engaged, faction of the party. Is there any precedent for such a willfully and pointlessly destructive act in modern American politics?

Every rational calculation says that Trump should seek to preserve the pledge. At this point, he is more likely than anyone else to be the nominee and benefit from the support of his competitors. He should want to use every possible lever of unity at his disposal. And yet, he’s done the opposite.

Who can guess why? Stupid pride? A manliness contest, where he wants Cruz eventually to have to offer his support even after he says he doesn’t want it? A disdain for every political convention, even one that might help him?

Whatever the reason, it is yet another sign that Trump is all about himself. In this sense, he is already what the Republican National Committee feared when it got him to sign the pledge — a third-party candidate. He’s running against the Republican party from within the Republican party. He cares nothing about its values or its interests. He favors it exactly to the extent it can be subordinated to him and no further.

Political parties have been riven by clashes of personalities and ideologies before, but it is hard to think of another example of a party so damaged by such a heedless interloper.

 It’s been a month since we were told Donald Trump was pivoting to being more presidential and unifying after his victories on Super Tuesday. Since then, he has: declared that he’d consider paying the legal bills of a goon who sucker-punched a black protester; talked of riots at the Republican convention if it doesn’t go his way; threatened and mocked Heidi Cruz; and justified his campaign manager’s manhandling of a female journalist in the most asinine and dishonest ways.

 It has become a truism in the coverage of Trump that nothing can hurt him, and with his base that is certainly true. But everyone else has been paying attention, and Trump has made himself toxic with the general public.

Events can always intervene, and Hillary Clinton certainly has her own weaknesses, but every objective indicator is that nominating Trump would mean a divided Republican party loses in the fall, perhaps badly, maybe even epically.

 Probably the most favorable non-Trump scenario is that Ted Cruz beats him on a second ballot at a convention and has enough anti-establishment credibility to take the edge off the inevitable revolt of the Trump forces. But surely Trump would do all he could to destroy Cruz and the GOP in retribution for denying him the nomination.

Trump’s implicit threat is almost certainly lose with me in a simulacrum of a normal process (and lose your integrity and principles along the way), or almost certainly lose without me in an intraparty cataclysm I will make as spectacular as possible. Either way, the GOP is in all likelihood now managing dismal outcomes.

The Trump phenomenon holds important lessons for the party, but there is no escaping the insuperable weakness and failings of Trump himself, namely his egotism, immaturity, irresponsibility, and habitual dishonesty. The RNC thought it had scored a victory so many months ago when Donald Trump signed its pledge. Instead, it was enacting the political equivalent of the fable of the scorpion and the frog.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433520/donald-trump-republican-party-may-not-survive-if-he-nominated
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2016, 06:26:39 pm »
Yeah, we're screwed. Of course, his followers are happy about this. Why I just don't understand.


Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 06:49:02 pm »
Yeah, we're screwed. Of course, his followers are happy about this. Why I just don't understand.

It's really not all that difficult to understand. You may not agree, but there is reason to wanting the current GOP to be replaced. I'm in agreement with those that say the GOP is feckless, and has become very much a big government party. A long time ago, I noted that the GOP seemed to be positioning itself to be a European style conservative party, which is to say, pro big government, but promising to manage the government more efficiently.

The voters gave the GOP the House and the Senate, and the payback was underwhelming.

As a right of center voter, a fiscal conservative, I have long felt the GOP doesn't really represent me. And do I really need to list the nominees for president? So what do we do? Don't vote? When the GOP is voted out, they don't seem to recalibrate policy or try to connect with the voters. They simply bide their time, and do all they can to dig up dirt on the opposition, (and there's always dirt on politicians). If we vote, and the GOP gets elected, they throw us a bone now and then, but seem to knuckle under to the Democrats far too often. The GOP seems to fear the media, and dislike much of it's own base.

Unfortunately, even if the GOP is blown up, the political class will just take up residence in whatever new party comes into being. Just like they tried to co-opt the Tea Party, until the negatives got too high.

If you feel the GOP doesn't represent you. If there is no way you can find representation in the Democrat party. Well, watching the GOP fall into disarray isn't so bad. Besides, this election is already lost.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2016, 06:55:15 pm »
It's really not all that difficult to understand. You may not agree, but there is reason to wanting the current GOP to be replaced. I'm in agreement with those that say the GOP is feckless, and has become very much a big government party. A long time ago, I noted that the GOP seemed to be positioning itself to be a European style conservative party, which is to say, pro big government, but promising to manage the government more efficiently.

The voters gave the GOP the House and the Senate, and the payback was underwhelming.

As a right of center voter, a fiscal conservative, I have long felt the GOP doesn't really represent me. And do I really need to list the nominees for president? So what do we do? Don't vote? When the GOP is voted out, they don't seem to recalibrate policy or try to connect with the voters. They simply bide their time, and do all they can to dig up dirt on the opposition, (and there's always dirt on politicians). If we vote, and the GOP gets elected, they throw us a bone now and then, but seem to knuckle under to the Democrats far too often. The GOP seems to fear the media, and dislike much of it's own base.

Unfortunately, even if the GOP is blown up, the political class will just take up residence in whatever new party comes into being. Just like they tried to co-opt the Tea Party, until the negatives got too high.

If you feel the GOP doesn't represent you. If there is no way you can find representation in the Democrat party. Well, watching the GOP fall into disarray isn't so bad. Besides, this election is already lost.

Don't come whining like a little girl when the USSC goes Democrat for the next 20 years then. I won't want to hear it.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2016, 07:08:36 pm »
Don't come whining like a little girl when the USSC goes Democrat for the next 20 years then. I won't want to hear it.

What's wrong, did your widdle establishment sensibilities get bruised?
The only whining I've noted on this thread is posted by you.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2016, 07:11:08 pm »
What's wrong, did your widdle establishment sensibilities get bruised?
The only whining I've noted on this thread is posted by you.

Not whining just stating a fact.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 07:22:46 pm »
:silly:

Are you prepared to handle a Democrat USSC?

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2016, 07:24:42 pm »
Are you prepared to handle a Democrat USSC?

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that I can do to prevent it.


Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2016, 07:27:56 pm »
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that I can do to prevent it.

Yeah but there are "establishment" candidates that can. Yes we get some John Roberts in there, but JR is way better than who HRC or BS will put in there.

Facts are facts, son.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2016, 07:46:56 pm »
Yeah but there are "establishment" candidates that can. Yes we get some John Roberts in there, but JR is way better than who HRC or BS will put in there.

Facts are facts, son.

You mean I get to pick who is the next president?! What a relief! I thought maybe there was some kind of vote, and all those mind numbed liberals would pick Hillary.

Make up your mind, am I your son, or am I a little girl? I'm feeling a bit like Bruce, er, Kaitlyn Jenner right now.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2016, 07:50:34 pm »
You mean I get to pick who is the next president?! What a relief! I thought maybe there was some kind of vote, and all those mind numbed liberals would pick Hillary.

Make up your mind, am I your son, or am I a little girl? I'm feeling a bit like Bruce, er, Kaitlyn Jenner right now.

No you don't pick the president. I understand your position.

If we all took your position we'd be really screwed though, wouldn't we?

Just saying.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2016, 07:59:23 pm »
No you don't pick the president. I understand your position.

If we all took your position we'd be really screwed though, wouldn't we?

Just saying.

If we all took my position, how would it be any different than where we are now?

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,302
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2016, 08:03:04 pm »
If we all took my position, how would it be any different than where we are now?

The GOP wouldn't have the HOuse and Senate, and the huge amount of state legislatures.

Offline Relic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,967
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2016, 08:07:57 pm »
The GOP wouldn't have the HOuse and Senate, and the huge amount of state legislatures.

Now don't get all drama queen on me.

Where did I say I don't vote? If we all did what I do, we'd go to the polls and pick a bunch of Republicans, some good, some bad, some terrible.
Enjoying seeing the GOP get shredded doesn't mean that I have abandoned my civic duties. And, as I stated, I'm a pragmatist, I realize that the GOP doesn't care one whit about me. They want my money and my vote, then they want me to shut up and go away. When the GOP loses, they don't recalibrate, they just scheme to get back in power, without changes. If the party fails, the same faces will show up in any new party.

I hate the GOP, but I hate Democrats more.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,626
  • Gender: Male
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2016, 08:08:42 pm »
Don't come whining like a little girl when the USSC goes Democrat for the next 20 years then. I won't want to hear it.

"... there is reason to wanting the current GOP to be replaced."

The problem with that mindless attitude, is that those who want the GOP "replaced" have nothing ready to fill the void with, leaving the unfilled void the total property of the Democrats.

So, frustrated with what they perceive to be a leftist-leaning GOP, these people are actively working to replace them with an out-in-the-open bunch of Socialists.

Sounds like a plan!
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2016, 08:20:01 pm »
I have long felt the GOP doesn't really represent me. And do I really need to list the nominees for president? So what do we do? Don't vote?

This is why we need to overthrow the corrupt duopoly that dominates politics in this country. We need more than 2 relevant parties.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 08:22:27 pm by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,626
  • Gender: Male
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2016, 09:13:35 pm »
This is why we need to overthrow the corrupt duopoly that dominates politics in this country. We need more than 2 relevant parties.

This may be meaningless to some, but there isn't a single person in Congress that wasn't elected by a vote to be there, so when that day comes that you decide to overthrow the government, don't expect them to just sit by.

Everyone agrees that Congress sucks, and everyone agrees that Congressmen and women stay in Congress far too long, but that's only we keep re-electing those people to Congress.

We all hate Congress, but apparently we like "our guy" in Congress.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2016, 09:30:00 pm »
This may be meaningless to some, but there isn't a single person in Congress that wasn't elected by a vote to be there, so when that day comes that you decide to overthrow the government, don't expect them to just sit by.

I think we need to overthrow the 2 parties and their dominance over politics, not the government itself (yet).
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline Luis Gonzalez

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,626
  • Gender: Male
    • Boiling Frogs
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2016, 09:41:53 pm »
I think we need to overthrow the 2 parties and their dominance over politics, not the government itself (yet).

Good luck with that.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2016, 09:45:06 pm »
Good luck with that.

I think we're seeing the beginning with the erosion of trust for status quo politicians on both sides.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

A-Lert

  • Guest
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 10:01:08 pm »
Don't come whining like a little girl when the USSC goes Democrat for the next 20 years then. I won't want to hear it.

Ronald Reagan said to Republicans back in 1967:

    Ronald Reagan knew how to unite Americans

    “Fortunately for those millions of concerned citizens, we too had paused to take inventory.  We discovered we could no longer afford the luxury of internal fighting, backbiting and throat-cutting.  We discovered our philosophical difference with those presently in power was greater than any grudge or split within our own ranks.  We’re ready and in position to offer an alternative for those concerned citizens who wanted to join with others, not to win a contest, but to preserve a way of life.”


If you want robust economic growth, freedom of religion, and a more just and moral society, look to the conservative principles that have served this nation so well, said Mr. Reagan. We must extend our arms to all:

    “We must keep the door open – offering our party as the only practical answer for those who, overall, are individualists.  And because this is the great common denominator – this dedication to the belief in man’s aspirations as an individual – we cannot offer them a narrow sectarian party in which all must swear allegiance to prescribed commandments.”

Mr. Reagan was clear that Republicans can’t be too narrow in their rhetoric:

    “Such a party can be highly disciplined, but it does not win elections.  This kind of party soon disappears in a blaze of glorious defeat, and it never puts into practice its basic tenets, no matter how noble they may be.”

The most beloved Republican of modern time hammered home this idea of inclusion:

    “The Republican Party, both in this state and nationally, is a broad party.  There is room in our tent for many views; indeed, the divergence of views is one of our strengths. Let no one, however, interpret this to mean compromise of basic philosophy or that we will be all things to all people for political expediency.”

This last line is critical. Republicans should not compromise our basic American tenets of immutable God-given rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.



Ronald Reagan said it so well:

    “In our tent will be found those who believe that government was created by “We, the People;” that government exists for the convenience of the people and we can give to government no power we do not possess as individuals;  that the citizen does not earn to support the government, but supports a government so that he may be free to earn; that, because there can be no freedom without law and order, every act of government must be approved if it makes freedom more secure and disapproved if it offers security instead of freedom.”

The ugly Republican primary did damage to the Party. More than ever, America needs Republican values. More than ever, America needs Republicans to be Republicans, not Democrat-Lite. It is time to unite, as Reagan said:

    “Within our tent, there will be many arguments and divisions over approach and method and even those we choose to implement our philosophy.  Seldom, if ever, will we raise a cheer signifying unanimous approval of the decisions reached.  But if our philosophy is to prevail, we must at least pledge unified support of the ultimate decision.  Unity does not require unanimity of thought.”

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 10:13:15 pm »
I believe over my lifetime, the democrats have moved left, and the Republicans have moved right.

But the people pretty much stayed in place. Hence the political parties and elites are further from the mainstream of voters.

What is not represented is the center. Republican centrists are scoffed at.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 10:32:43 pm »
I think we're seeing the beginning with the erosion of trust for status quo politicians on both sides.

You start.  Get a 3rd party going. If there are all these pissed-off folks out there, you should have no trouble getting one organized.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

A-Lert

  • Guest
Re: Present at the Destruction; GOP may not survive Trump nomination
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 10:37:51 pm »
You start.  Get a 3rd party going. If there are all these pissed-off folks out there, you should have no trouble getting one organized.

Ronald Reagan; "
    “Within our tent, there will be many arguments and divisions over approach and method and even those we choose to implement our philosophy.  Seldom, if ever, will we raise a cheer signifying unanimous approval of the decisions reached.  But if our philosophy is to prevail, we must at least pledge unified support of the ultimate decision.  Unity does not require unanimity of thought.”