John Kasich Warns Against Singling Out Muslims for Monitoring

[mystery-ak]

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/03/22/john-kasich-warns-against-singling-out-muslims-for-monitoring/?_r=1


2:50 pm ET By Thomas Kaplan

Gov. John Kasich of Ohio on Tuesday cautioned against monitoring Muslim-Americans after the attacks in Brussels, saying that such a step would create division and harm the country’s ability to gather intelligence.

His comments came after one of his rivals, Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, called for law enforcement “to patrol and secure Muslim neighborhoods before they become radicalized.”

Mr. Kasich told reporters in Minneapolis, “We are not at war with Islam; we’re at war with radical Islam.”

“In our country,” he said, “we don’t want to create divisions where we say, ‘O.K., well your religion, you’re a Muslim, so therefore we’re going to keep an eye on you.’” He added that “the last thing we need is more polarization.”

“Frankly, for those who want to preserve Islam as a religion that is not at war with the West, we alienate them, how are we supposed to ever get the information we need?” he asked.

Mr. Kasich hopes that his foreign policy experience, gained from his 18 years in Congress, will help him stand out compared with Mr. Cruz and Donald J. Trump.

Setting up a contrast with Mr. Trump, Mr. Kasich also said that he would “make every effort I could to strengthen the NATO alliance.” On Monday, speaking to the editorial board of The Washington Post, Mr. Trump questioned the United States’s involvement in NATO.

Mr. Kasich also said President Obama should cut short his visit to Cuba in order to deal with the unfolding situation in Europe.

“If I were in Cuba right now, the last thing I would be doing is going to a baseball game,” he said, referring to Mr. Obama’s plans to watch the Tampa Bay Rays play the Cuban national team. “I would be going back to Washington.”

[Fishrrman]

The more he opens his mouth, Kasich reveals he's a loser.

And worse than that... a quisling in the struggle that is before us.

It's positively amazing that this guy has support from conservatives -- or anyone with common sense.

[Chosen Daughter]

The more he opens his mouth, Kasich reveals he's a loser.

And worse than that... a quisling in the struggle that is before us.

It's positively amazing that this guy has support from conservatives -- or anyone with common sense.

Speaking from Minneapolis?  We know that in Minnesota many of the Muslim community do have extremist views.  Some have gone to join ISIS.   We know that there are certain Mosques that have been tied to terrorists.  We absolutely should be monitoring those we know are spouting violence.  Not have our politicians go to them to show solidarity with Islam.  What has not happened is "moderate" Muslims exposing extremists within their communities.  If it hasn't happened yet it isn't going to.

And if there are any religions that are speaking violence from the pulpit same applies to them.  If any church, Mosque, temple is known to have ties to any person or group that wishes ill on the United States it should be shut down.

[aligncare]

The more he opens his mouth, Kasich reveals he's a loser.

And worse than that... a quisling in the struggle that is before us.

It's positively amazing that this guy has support from conservatives -- or anyone with common sense.

....And this one particularly passionate but misguided fan and member of this forum – delusional is a more appropriate description. But, I'm in a kind and gentle mood this evening and will reserve my rapier-like wit for another time.

[Chosen Daughter]

As part of its response, the federal government launched a pilot program in three cities that aims to better understand why youth in Boston, Los Angeles and Minneapolis may be incentivized to leave the U.S. to travel to such a dangerous region. The efforts on countering violent extremism – known as CVE – seek to address root causes of extremism through community engagement and undermine attraction to terrorist activity. It is a preventive counterterrorism program that seeks to build awareness in communities and intervene when young people are believed to be falling under the influence of extremist groups and building awareness in their communities. The U.S. is also partnering with foreign governments to address the issue, particularly terrorist groups' use of social media to attract recruits.


"[W]e have to recognize that our best partners in all these efforts, the best people to help protect individuals from falling victim to extremist ideologies are their own communities, their own family members. We have to be honest with ourselves. Terrorist groups like al-Qaida and [the Islamic State group] deliberately target their propaganda in the hopes of reaching and brainwashing young Muslims, especially those who may be disillusioned or wrestling with their identity," President Barack Obama said at a White House Summit in February that brought together law enforcement and community leaders to discuss CVE implementation.

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2015/07/02/minneapolis-somali-community-struggles-with-islamic-state-recruitment

Cruz is the one that understands the issue and is ready to lead.

[Jazzhead]

Kasich is as tough as any of the others when it comes to defeating ISIS.   And he's right - we need to fight the enemy - Islamofascism -  not our own fellow citizens.

The Constitution protects all of us who are law-abiding.   We cannot lose our freedoms of speech and assembly merely because of what religion we are.  And it's just damn foolish to fight radicalism by alienating ordinary Muslims with heavy-handed appeals to stereotyping and religious prejudice.

It's conservative to fight SMART;  it's not conservative - it's something downright un-American - to fight by lashing out at the peaceable followers of a religion.

Kasich is the adult in the room.   He will defeat ISIS because he knows who the enemy is (and who it is not), and how to enlist others to our just and necessary cause.     

[Bill Cipher]

Singling out a group of people on account of their religion is utterly un-American.  It means the terrorists have won.

[HonestJohn]

We should be saying that there can be no tolerance for violent rhetoric issued from any pulpit, no matter the faith.

(now, if there is a group that is struggling more than others... we can help with that)

[Jazzhead]

Singling out a group of people on account of their religion is utterly un-American.  It means the terrorists have won.

Yes, and it is what the terrorists want.   They want us to overreact and radicalize Muslim communities for them.

They are counting us to hate.   Kasich points out that that's not who we are,  and is apparently drummed out of proper conservatism for his efforts.   Well then we've lost our way folks,  and forgotten that our common defense doesn't mean killing the Constitution in order to save it.   

[R4 TrumPence]

Singling out a group of people on account of their religion is utterly un-American.  It means the terrorists have won.

No you don't understand this is The 2nd place Ted Cruz talking, so it must be the right thing to do! Only Ted is right!

[Bill Cipher]

No you don't understand this is The 2nd place Ted Cruz talking, so it must be the right thing to do! Only Ted is right!

So you think it's acceptable to single out a group of people based on some characteristic like religion, and subject them to negative treatment?  Was it ok when whites treated blacks as second-class citizens?  Was it acceptable when the Nazis treated the Jews as less than second-class citizens?

[R4 TrumPence]

So you think it's acceptable to single out a group of people based on some characteristic like religion, and subject them to negative treatment?  Was it ok when whites treated blacks as second-class citizens?  Was it acceptable when the Nazis treated the Jews as less than second-class citizens?

Sure! As long as Ted says it, it's just peachy,don't ya think?
Everything out of Ted's mouth is true too.

[mystery-ak]

Yes, and it is what the terrorists want.   They want us to overreact and radicalize Muslim communities for them.

They are counting us to hate.   Kasich points out that that's not who we are,  and is apparently drummed out of proper conservatism for his efforts.   Well then we've lost our way folks,  and forgotten that our common defense doesn't mean killing the Constitution in order to save it.   

What....they only understand one thing...they consider us weak that is their mindset....we need to take ISIS out even if it means ground troops. It won't stop until we do.

[Bill Cipher]

Sure! As long as Ted says it, it's just peachy,don't ya think?
Everything out of Ted's mouth is true too.

Those are your words, not mine.  If you want to mock me you'll have to find some other angle.

[Bill Cipher]

What....they only understand one thing...they consider us weak that is their mindset....we need to take ISIS out even if it means ground troops. It won't stop until we do.

Taking out ISIS with ground troops is a great idea - so long as we don't have namby-pamby rules of engagement - but that wasn't the issue.  The issue was whether it would be acceptable to torture a captured terrorist (suspected terrorist) in order to obtain information.

[Jazzhead]

What....they only understand one thing...they consider us weak that is their mindset....we need to take ISIS out even if it means ground troops. It won't stop until we do.

I agree, myst.  It's a nasty job and we'll suffer for it but it has to be done.   

[Machiavelli]

Thanks, sink.

[R4 TrumPence]

Those are your words, not mine.  If you want to mock me you'll have to find some other angle.

Just doing a test. Nothing personal!
Do you see how annoying it can be when people just continue to piss other members off?

[mystery-ak]

Taking out ISIS with ground troops is a great idea - so long as we don't have namby-pamby rules of engagement - but that wasn't the issue.  The issue was whether it would be acceptable to torture a captured terrorist (suspected terrorist) in order to obtain information.

Well then I believe it is acceptable to torture captured terrorists if I thought they were withholding info...my duty as a president is to protect American citizens by any means possible.

[Bill Cipher]

Just doing a test. Nothing personal!
Do you see how annoying it can be when people just continue to piss other members off?

I see how annoying it is when someone puts words in your mouth and goes after you instead of addressing the facts or the candidates.  Are you going to continue trying to mock me?

[Bill Cipher]

Well then I believe it is acceptable to torture captured terrorists if I thought they were withholding info...my duty as a president is to protect American citizens by any means possible.

What about somebody who didn't commit the terrorist act, and didn't obtain the explosives, but harbored the terrorist in their house?  Can we torture them?  And what level of torture can we go to?  Can we use electric shock torture?  Can we pull out fingernails?  Can we pull out teeth?  Can we electrocute testicles?  Can we ...?

[A-Lert]

Islam, cult or religion?

http://gatesofvienna.net/2014/01/five-reasons-why-islam-is-a-cult/

Five Reasons Why Islam is a Cult

[Chosen Daughter]

Kasich is as tough as any of the others when it comes to defeating ISIS.   And he's right - we need to fight the enemy - Islamofascism -  not our own fellow citizens.

The Constitution protects all of us who are law-abiding.   We cannot lose our freedoms of speech and assembly merely because of what religion we are.  And it's just damn foolish to fight radicalism by alienating ordinary Muslims with heavy-handed appeals to stereotyping and religious prejudice.

It's conservative to fight SMART;  it's not conservative - it's something downright un-American - to fight by lashing out at the peaceable followers of a religion.

Kasich is the adult in the room.   He will defeat ISIS because he knows who the enemy is (and who it is not), and how to enlist others to our just and necessary cause.   

I agree that we have to abide by the Constitution.  I posted an article above.  They already have pilot programs to help identify when youths are going the way of extremism.  It is a fact within Islam that their own communities need to be involved in protecting their youth from the pull of extremism.  These are facts.  In Minneapolis where Kasich was speaking the Somali community is falling victim to ISIS recruiting.  So either they are all Islamic Extremists or they need help.  I think that Cruz is right on, and he knows what he is talking about.  The communities have to be active participants in stopping this.
___________________________________________________________________________________________ Minneapolis officials are unveiling a million-dollar program aimed at preventing ISIS from radicalizing and recruiting Americans in the Twin Cities.

The effort is in response to the fact that Minnesota's burgeoning Somali-American community — the largest in the U.S. at between 15,000 and 20,000 people — has become ground zero for ISIS's U.S. recruitment push.

Law enforcement officials say between 50 and 60 young people in Minnesota have either successfully traveled to Syria, been stopped at an airport en route or are under investigation for allegedly planning to do so.


An Islamic State fighter holds holds a rifle and the group's flag shortly after capturing the northern Iraqi city of Mosul in June 2014. Dozens of Americans have been accused of planning or heading off to the Middle East to join the group. Their individual cases are on the chart below.

Parallels

 Who Are America's Suspected ISIS Followers?
   

Somali-American youths play basketball before the start of a September 2013 solidarity rally by the Minneapolis Somali community to denounce al-Shabab's attack of a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya. Less than a decade after groups of teens from Minneapolis emigrated to Somalia to join the terrorist group, more have been recruited to join the self-declared Islamic State in Syria.

National Security

 For Somalis In Minneapolis, Jihadi Recruiting Is A Recurring Nightmare
   
Wednesday's announcement comes after more than a year of discussion and study aimed at finding ways to — in counterterrorism parlance — "counter violent extremism" or "build more resilient communities" in the Twin Cities. The new efforts are designed to identify the radicalization of children long before ISIS has persuaded them to board planes to take them to Syria.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/09/438797658/minneapolis-unveiling-plan-to-counter-recruiting-by-isis


 

[mystery-ak]

What about somebody who didn't commit the terrorist act, and didn't obtain the explosives, but harbored the terrorist in their house?  Can we torture them?  And what level of torture can we go to?  Can we use electric shock torture?  Can we pull out fingernails?  Can we pull out teeth?  Can we electrocute testicles?  Can we ...?

I would use the same standards they used in Iraq...from what I have read they only waterboarded a few people and they all talked....

They have a terrorist right now in custody who has been talking a little telling them more attacks coming...would you want to know who/what/where and when to protect innocent people.

[Bill Cipher]

I would use the same standards they used in Iraq...from what I have read they only waterboarded a few people and they all talked....

Ok.  But I think waterboarding is mostly considered to still be on the safe side of the line.  We can probably treat it as not being torture.