Author Topic: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump  (Read 20026 times)

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Offline Doug Loss

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #150 on: September 26, 2016, 06:37:07 pm »
Who post misleading headlines or engage solely in derision and mockery.

You do realize that this is pretty much exactly what you yourself do, right?  Well, you probably don't...
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #151 on: September 26, 2016, 06:40:41 pm »
You remind me of the kid who sits behind someone in class and pokes them with a pencil when the teacher isn't looking. Poke, poke, poke, poke... When the kid getting poked has had enough of your crap and gets up and pops you one, you go whining to the teacher.

I know your type. Quit being a passive aggressive jerk, and people will be nicer to you.

Lol.....spot-frickin-on! 
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #152 on: September 26, 2016, 07:07:11 pm »
In all honesty, does anyone actually believe that admittedly stupid comments like that were really meant literally? As in actual dogs hunting down the tens of millions who didn't vote for Trump?

I mean, does anyone actually believe that?

@Maj. Bill Martin

Considering that people on this forum have been threatened repeatedly by Trump zealots, I'd say a most definite YES to whether or not the threats are credible.

Many of them may just be stupid keyboard commandos craving attention and pretending they have courage, but there is enough visceral anger coming from the Trump camp to believe that the threats of physical violence are real from some of them.

Do I believe all Trump zealots are dangerous?  No.  Do I believe SOME are?  Absolutely.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #153 on: September 26, 2016, 07:14:18 pm »
You seem to still hold out hope that you're arguing with rational folks, people who are thinking of the politics of this race.

@aligncare

And you seem to be suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect.  People are being quite rational.

Quote
But, in my humble opinion, #NeverTrump is unconcerned about the very real political fallout to the country of a Hillary presidency.

Quite to the contrary, I* am very concerned about a Hillary presidency, and I try hard to hold back my antipathy for Trump supporters who made this a very real possibility.  I'm not wholly convinced Trump will win.

On the other hand, in my humble opinion, you are unconcerned about the very real political fallout to the country of a Trump presidency.

Quote
No, in my opinion #NeverTrump is an organized, collective emotional yelp. Nothing more. In time, as their emotion subsides, reality begins to unclog their thinking and the dominos continue falling.

Perhaps with age, I'll get senile and forget all that I have read, and will therefore no longer recognize the horrific dangers of a populist movement with nationalist and fascist tendencies.  But until then, my thinking will remain clogged with facts and sound analysis.

*if I'm one of the NeverTrumpers you're talking about despite the fact that I don't respond to Democrat dog whistles or get orders from NR.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 07:17:13 pm by Suppressed »
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #154 on: September 26, 2016, 07:20:41 pm »
Spur, it's much simpler for me. As a Texan, I do not trust New York values, and Trump embodies those.

@Night Hides Not @sinkspur

Those are New York City values.  New Yorkers (as in, the state of New York) don't tend to roll that way.

Since you're a Texan, I won't hold it -- or Austin -- against you!   :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 07:23:06 pm by Suppressed »
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“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline INVAR

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #155 on: September 26, 2016, 07:21:55 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Considering that people on this forum have been threatened repeatedly by Trump zealots, I'd say a most definite YES to whether or not the threats are credible.

Many of them may just be stupid keyboard commandos craving attention and pretending they have courage, but there is enough visceral anger coming from the Trump camp to believe that the threats of physical violence are real from some of them.

Do I believe all Trump zealots are dangerous?  No.  Do I believe SOME are?  Absolutely.

What is more dangerous and more alarming - is that history teaches that a zeitgeist instigated by a man or movement using fear and promises of punishment for the stated greater glory of the nation, is never to be ignored - and to be taken very, very seriously.

It's not that one or two unhinged Trump (or Hillary) zealots threaten physical harm or action against those they have declared traitors in heated campaign rhetoric.   What is alarming is that their movement and compatriots applaud it and excuse such behavior and threats by projecting what they, themselves are doing onto their declared enemies.  THAT is how tyrannical and genocidal behavior is willfully ignored and/or applauded by masses when the same thing is enabled in pogroms executed by their savior or movement they have pledged themselves to.

Trumps documented lifelong efforts to punish those he thinks have wronged him, and all the fists in the air amidst suggestions of Trump's enemies "being hunted down like dogs" are far more dangerous to all of us in his political movement and office he seeks - much moreso than by anything Hillary presents.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #156 on: September 26, 2016, 07:33:55 pm »
@Night Hides Not @sinkspur

Those are New York City values.  New Yorkers (as in, the state of New York) don't tend to roll that way.

Since you're a Texan, I won't hold it -- or Austin -- against you!   :laugh:

You're right, mea culpa.

I'd trade you almost anything for Austin, but I doubt you'd want it.
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Offline chae

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #157 on: September 26, 2016, 07:43:07 pm »
Actually, I'm not worried about Hilary supporters being dangerous, they don't have that level of emotional investment in her.  Whereas Obama supporters and Trump supporters for the most part, are both totally emotionally invested in their candidate.  I'm sorry, but someone who claims in all seriousness to be having erotic dreams about Trump is not totally altogether.  Trump himself said that he could shoot people on the street and not lose support.  When someone can say that and not be wrong, well, you're no longer dealing with rational people.  You've got people who are Trump supporters posting the most blasphemous pictures I've ever seen, you've got Trump supporters wearing shirts that say "Jesus died for us, Trump lives for us". 
Basically you have the equivalent of cult members emotionally invested in their "savior" who feels he has never done anything he needs forgiveness for and who advocates vengence on those he feels have "wronged" him in any way.  Those people are very dangerous.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #158 on: September 26, 2016, 07:49:24 pm »
I'd trade you almost anything for Austin, but I doubt you'd want it.

HA! 

I was surprised that Codias, the new conservative social networking app, is based in Austin.
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“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline aligncare

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #159 on: September 26, 2016, 08:04:08 pm »
@aligncare

And you seem to be suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect.  People are being quite rational.

Quite to the contrary, I* am very concerned about a Hillary presidency, and I try hard to hold back my antipathy for Trump supporters who made this a very real possibility.  I'm not wholly convinced Trump will win.

On the other hand, in my humble opinion, you are unconcerned about the very real political fallout to the country of a Trump presidency.

Perhaps with age, I'll get senile and forget all that I have read, and will therefore no longer recognize the horrific dangers of a populist movement with nationalist and fascist tendencies.  But until then, my thinking will remain clogged with facts and sound analysis.

*if I'm one of the NeverTrumpers you're talking about despite the fact that I don't respond to Democrat dog whistles or get orders from NR.

Politics is how 'principle' is put into action. Once the DNC's moving van pulls up to the WH January 20 emblazoned with that big (D), and Hill and Bill step back into their former domicile, it'll be LIBERAL (D)'s calling the shots, same as Obama did (don't want to be called a misogynist for criticizing Hillary, do you now? What would your wife think of you?)

Offline chae

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #160 on: September 26, 2016, 08:13:51 pm »
@aligncare


Other than gender there is not much difference between Hilary and Trump.  Policy-wise they don't look too different.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #161 on: September 26, 2016, 08:21:08 pm »
Politics is how 'principle' is put into action.

Wrong.

Politics is how principles are negotiated, watered-down, diminished and rendered irrelevant by those who are willing to trade them for expedience.

You sir, have no regard for principles unless it's worship of your anointed. The rest are to be subjected to your political messiah and that kind of surrender you laud as principled.


Principle is how governance is supposed to be put into action. But then again - you have everything backwards.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #162 on: September 26, 2016, 08:31:55 pm »
. But, in my humble opinion, #NeverTrump is unconcerned about the very real political fallout to the country of a Hillary presidency.


I'm sure that most if not all NeverTrumps are very concerned about the real political fallout to the country of a Hillary presidency.

It's just that, for most of us,  the danger of a Trump presidency is worse.    It's that way,  I guess, for those of us who've studied the history of fascist movements.  We can surely survive four years of Clinton.   But an existential threat to our Republic in the form of a xenophobic movement led by an individual who is, by all appearances, insane?   

I am working as hard as I can to defeat Trumpism,  because I recognize the clear and present danger it represents. 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 08:32:48 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #163 on: September 26, 2016, 08:37:44 pm »
Trumps always be aholes:
 
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Saddened to hear about the passing of the great #ArnoldPalmer - he was an incredible man. #TrumpGolf
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #164 on: September 26, 2016, 08:41:41 pm »
Considering that people on this forum have been threatened repeatedly by Trump zealots, I'd say a most definite YES to whether or not the threats are credible.

I've been referring to a very specific "threat", not threats in general.

If you really believe that a statement that all people who didn't support Trump will be hunted down with dogs was even meant seriously, then I'm not sure what else to say.  It isn't even a remotely plausible threat in terms of carrying it out.

But hey, I'm made my point.  If some want to continue insisting it's a credible threat, you're free to do so.  The only reason I've made an issue out of it is that it is part of what I see as a pattern of rhetorical one-upsmanship between NeverTrumpers and some Trump Supporters, where each side reads something the other writes and then attaches the most extreme meaning to it possible simply to paint the other party as being as unreasonable as possible.   There are a lot of opportunities for people to ratchet back the rhetoric and restore it to some measure of reasonableness, but those opportunities keep getting tossed away in the interests of proving how nutty the "other" is.

It is starting to make this place unreadable for some of the rest of us.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #165 on: September 26, 2016, 08:49:11 pm »
I've been referring to a very specific "threat", not threats in general.

If you really believe that a statement that all people who didn't support Trump will be hunted down with dogs was even meant seriously, then I'm not sure what else to say.  It isn't even a remotely plausible threat in terms of carrying it out.

But hey, I'm made my point.  If some want to continue insisting it's a credible threat, you're free to do so.  The only reason I've made an issue out of it is that it is part of what I see as a pattern of rhetorical one-upsmanship between NeverTrumpers and some Trump Supporters, where each side reads something the other writes and then attaches the most extreme meaning to it possible simply to paint the other party as being as unreasonable as possible.   There are a lot of opportunities for people to ratchet back the rhetoric and restore it to some measure of reasonableness, but those opportunities keep getting tossed away in the interests of proving how nutty the "other" is.

It is starting to make this place unreadable for some of the rest of us.

You can put a couple of NeverTrumpers on IGNORE, just like we put some of the Trump zealots on IGNORE.  It's one of the best features of the place.   You don't have to look at the posts of people you think are over the top on either side.

All I'm saying is that making threats is commonplace among certain Trump zealots.  There are people on this forum who have received overt threats on Twitter, etc.  I'm not one of them, but I've seen enough of the quotes to know that some of the people mean what they say.

If your primary motivation for liking a candidate is anger and resentment of certain ethnic groups, rich people, whoever, then the desire to harm people is not that remote.

It's the same kind of thing going on in the black community, where their anger is being stoked by agitators, including the President.

It's naïve, IMO, to think that Trump supporters, who are extremely angry people and being agitated by Trump himself, are not capable of carrying out angry threats.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Gov Bean Counter

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #166 on: September 26, 2016, 08:51:58 pm »
We Are the Borg. You Will be Assimilated. Resistance is Futile
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #167 on: September 26, 2016, 08:59:45 pm »
Just today, here on this site, another Trump supporter was saying that they'd be hunting down #NeverTrump with dogs after the election (if their god loses).

The post has been removed, so I can't link to it.  But here's the link to my response, so you can read their 'glory'.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,226193.msg1067546.html#msg1067546
Sounds like they think we are slaves that have run away from the plantation.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 09:22:35 pm by Idaho_Cowboy »
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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #168 on: September 26, 2016, 09:21:30 pm »
What is more dangerous and more alarming - is that history teaches that a zeitgeist instigated by a man or movement using fear and promises of punishment for the stated greater glory of the nation, is never to be ignored - and to be taken very, very seriously.

It's not that one or two unhinged Trump (or Hillary) zealots threaten physical harm or action against those they have declared traitors in heated campaign rhetoric.   What is alarming is that their movement and compatriots applaud it and excuse such behavior and threats by projecting what they, themselves are doing onto their declared enemies.  THAT is how tyrannical and genocidal behavior is willfully ignored and/or applauded by masses when the same thing is enabled in pogroms executed by their savior or movement they have pledged themselves to.

Trumps documented lifelong efforts to punish those he thinks have wronged him, and all the fists in the air amidst suggestions of Trump's enemies "being hunted down like dogs" are far more dangerous to all of us in his political movement and office he seeks - much moreso than by anything Hillary presents.

This.

goopo

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #169 on: September 26, 2016, 09:51:28 pm »
Sounds like they think we are slaves that have run away from the plantation.
In their minds we are. The GOP has treated Constitutional Conservatives, the TEA party folks who don't strictly fit that group, and others who are social conservatives, with contempt, expecting, even seemingly feeling entitled to, their votes because there is (in their minds) nowhere else for the aforementioned folks to go.

It is almost funny the way the folks in the GOP rail at the Democrats for their Plantation, where black and other minority votes are purchased with special considerations, and those folks vote Democrat in return, even if they don't get what was promised, but there has been a failure to identify or acknowledge the Republican Plantation, where captive Conservatives are expected to vote or get the proverbial lash.

It should come as no surprise that those of us who aren't playing that game any longer, who are sick and tired of being thrown under the bus every election cycle, have moved on to less heavily grazed and much 'less fertilized' pastures. Grumblings and murmurs of such among the disaffected have been going on for some time.
 
Nor is it surprising that the reaction to that is generally harsh and full of violent rhetoric; somehow the GOP seems to think it is 'entitled' to those votes, even though it hasn't delivered squat despite decades of promises.

There are other places to go.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #170 on: September 26, 2016, 10:42:23 pm »
In their minds we are. The GOP has treated Constitutional Conservatives, the TEA party folks who don't strictly fit that group, and others who are social conservatives, with contempt, expecting, even seemingly feeling entitled to, their votes because there is (in their minds) nowhere else for the aforementioned folks to go.

It is almost funny the way the folks in the GOP rail at the Democrats for their Plantation, where black and other minority votes are purchased with special considerations, and those folks vote Democrat in return, even if they don't get what was promised, but there has been a failure to identify or acknowledge the Republican Plantation, where captive Conservatives are expected to vote or get the proverbial lash.

It should come as no surprise that those of us who aren't playing that game any longer, who are sick and tired of being thrown under the bus every election cycle, have moved on to less heavily grazed and much 'less fertilized' pastures. Grumblings and murmurs of such among the disaffected have been going on for some time.
 
Nor is it surprising that the reaction to that is generally harsh and full of violent rhetoric; somehow the GOP seems to think it is 'entitled' to those votes, even though it hasn't delivered squat despite decades of promises.

There are other places to go.

Well said and right on!
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Convert or Die: Living in the Age of Trump
« Reply #171 on: September 27, 2016, 07:36:46 am »

There are other places to go.

Your whole post summed it up perfectly.

That said, I absolutely LOVE watching the wailing and gnashing of teeth by the whipmasters as they flail impotently thinking their lashings still sting us. L-O-V-E it.

My conservative values are right where they have been for years and will remain. The GOP and it's rabid little pack can pound square pegs through all the round holes they want. They can send their minions here to berate us till they're blue. Won't change a thing.

Ted Cruz failed as a conservative but that's not my problem. Because my principles mean more to me than his did to him. I love that the plantation types hate that too. L-O-V-E it. I guess I'm a sadist. Because if I have to suffer under which ever liberal they elect, they will have to likewise suffer knowing they cant lie enough, scream enough or threaten enough to ever make me change.

And I'll remind them of it with every liberal utterance they post. And I guess I must be a sadist. As the old joke goes...

What did the masochist say to the sadist?

"Whip me, beat me, make it hurt"
What did the sadist say to the masochist?

"No".
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 07:37:48 am by Norm Lenhart »