Author Topic: Former ADL Director Slams Trump for Making Supporters Raise Their Right Hands, a ‘Fascist Gesture’  (Read 2722 times)

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Offline Paladin

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The latest nuttiness. Happy2Me, this even beats your "The View" story.

Earlier today Trump asked the attendees at a rally to raise their hand in a pledge to vote for him in the NC primary. That gesture led to this.

"Former Anti-Defamation League Director Abe Foxman said Monday that Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump asking supporters to raise their right hands and pledge to vote for him is “a fascist gesture,” in an interview with the Times of Israel.

“As a Jew who survived the Holocaust, to see an audience of thousands of people raising their hands in what looks like the ‘Heil Hitler’ salute is about as offensive, obnoxious and disgusting as anything I thought I would ever witness in the United States of America,” Foxman told the Times

At a Saturday evening rally in Orlando, Florida, Trump asked supporters to raise their right hands and pledge to vote for him.

“Let’s do a pledge. Who likes me in this room?” Trump said. “Raise your right hand: ‘I do solemnly swear that I — no matter how I feel, no matter what the conditions, if there’s hurricanes or whatever — will vote, on or before the 12th for Donald J. Trump for president.’”

Trump incorrectly stated the date of the Florida primary, which will take place March 15.

“Don’t forget you all raised your hands,” Trump continued. “You swore. Bad things happen if you don’t live up to what you just did.”

Twitter users characterized the images of supporters raising their right hands as similar to the Nazi salute, and the words “Heil Trump” trended on Twitter Saturday evening.

[snip]

Foxman was born in Poland in 1940 and said he was saved from the Holocaust by his Catholic nanny.

“We’ve seen this sort of thing at rallies of neo-Nazis,” Foxman said. “We’ve seen it at rallies of white supremacists. But to see it at a rally for a legitimate candidate for the presidency of the United States is outrageous.”

Foxman told the Times that he believes Trump is aware of the implications of the gesture.

“It is a fascist gesture,” Foxman said. “He is smart enough — he always tells us how smart he is — to know the images that this evokes. Instead of asking his audience to pledge allegiance to the United States of America, which in itself would be a little bizarre, he’s asking them to swear allegiance to him.”

“He even threatens that if they don’t, they will suffer and be punished,” Foxman added. “This is so over the top for a man who really doesn’t come out of the underground. He is a man of the world. Even though he proclaims he doesn’t know who David Duke was, or the other white supremacists, we know very well that he knows. So he’s playing to an image.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/03/07/former-adl-director-slams-trump-for-making-supporters-raise-their-right-hands-a-fascist-gesture/

I saw video tape of the event and the whole thing was light hearted and hardly threatening in any way. In truth the reaction of the anti-Trumpsters frightens me far more than the hand gesture. They are truly going bonkers and one can only wonder how far they will go with this madness.



Members of the anti-Trump cabal: Now that Mr Trump has sewn up the nomination, I want you to know I feel your pain.

HAPPY2BME

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I'm still waiting for Marco Rubio to twitter pictures of Donald Trump standing in front of a gas chamber holding the severed head of a Jew.

Offline R4 TrumPence

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Well this has nothing to do with the Holocaust and Jews. This is just something funny between Trump and his audience.


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HAPPY2BME

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Well this has nothing to do with the Holocaust and Jews. This is just something funny between Trump and his audience.

============================

Since 1916, American Jews have voted overwhelmingly liberal, and overwhelmingly Democrat.

In 2008, 78% of American Jews voted for Obama.

If there ever was a modern dictator emulating Adolph Hitler or Benito mussolini, it is Barack Hussein Obama.

Offline R4 TrumPence

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============================

Since 1916, American Jews have voted overwhelmingly liberal, and overwhelmingly Democrat.

In 2008, 78% of American Jews voted for Obama.

If there ever was a modern dictator emulating Adolph Hitler or Benito mussolini, it is Barack Hussein Obama.
You got that right!!


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

A-Lert

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Hey Abe, have you ever been to a swearing in ceremony of US military personnel, scouts, police officers, etc.? If not, it's about time. You're making a fool of yourself.

When I was in grade school the teacher made us raise our hand if I needed to use the restroom, answer or ask a question. Would you call her a Nazi?

Offline Jazzhead

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No,  this isn't a "Nazi gesture".   Funny,  though, that it's the Trumpsters who are publicizing this.  After months of their leader's bullying,  now they want to pirouette and cast themselves as misunderstood martyrs.   
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Offline aligncare

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I called it the other day. Knew they would grasp at any little thing, no matter how tenuous and comical.

It makes them look unhinged.

"Look everybody! Trump sneezed! Germ warfare! Call the CDC!"

Offline aligncare

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There's no mistaking your gestures, Jazz.  You wear your fascism on your sleeve.

Offline GAJohnnie

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So the pledge of alliance or  the boy scout oath is now "a fascist gesture"?

These sort of posting make the Hate Trump Always squad look like a bunch of overly emotional hysteric children.

Offline Jazzhead

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Quote
  In breaking the taboos of civility and civilizations, a Trump speech and rally resembles the rallies of fascist leaders who pantomimed the wishes of their followers and let them fill in the text.   Trump says what they want to say but are afraid to express.  In cheering this leader, his supporters feel free to say what they really believe about Mexicans, Muslims and women

Jeffrey Herf, writing in the American Interest


Here's a link to the essay Is Donald Trump a Fascist?

Quote
Bush, and earlier Senator Lindsay Graham, seemed to stand alone in the Republican Party in their willingness to confront Trump when his campaign was still in its early stages. They were abandoned by their fellow Republicans, who wrongly thought they could ignore him. When fascism and Nazism emerged in Italy and Germany, their rise to power was also accompanied by an astonishing series of political blunders and misjudgments by the elites of the time. Hitler was underestimated by his opponents on the Left, who thought he was merely a tool of the capitalists, and by the industrialists, who thought he would become their pliable tool. In both cases, the political establishments failed to take the danger seriously enough and then descended into cynical opportunism borne of partial agreement and lack of principle, now evident in the stunning decision of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie to support Trump.

History does not repeat itself in simple ways. Trump is not a carbon copy of Hitler or Mussolini. Yet he has now threatened the owners and editors of the New York Times and the Washington Post with libel suits if they continue to criticize him. He (absurdly) pretended not to know who David Duke is and appeared to refuse in an interview to disavow him and the KKK, thereby shamelessly pandering to votes from the extreme racist Right. He then “disavowed” them without clarifying why he was doing so. His cynicism was transparent. Whether or not Trump gains the nomination of the Republican Party, he has already done enormous damage to American politics. The poisons he has unleashed and the taboos he has smashed with such glee have created a new, dangerous field of rhetorical violence and insult in American public life. He has revealed that large numbers of our fellow citizens are willing to follow a demagogue who voices contempt for basic principles of liberal democracy, offers simple explanations of complex issues, and draws on racism, religious bigotry, and extreme nationalism to “make America great again.” Trump’s mixture of wealth and authoritarianism, and their underestimation by the establishment, also evokes comparisons to Italy’s former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi and the damage he did to Italy while he served as Prime Minister. Berlusconi’s launching pad in private wealth is similar to Trump. Yet Trump is less the buffoon and more of the bully than Berlusconi. Given the role of the United States in world affairs, the damage he could do should he become President would be far greater.

Despite the important differences between the Trump phenomenon and the extreme Right of Europe’s 20th century, his campaign brings to mind dangerous echoes from the past. We know what can happen when politicians who speak and act like Donald Trump gain power, even if they do so by using the instruments of democracy. With fear and anger unloosed in the land, much can happen, nearly all of it very bad. Trump can be stopped, but for that to happen we need to take the threat he poses seriously and to remember the lessons of the not so distant past.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 01:47:06 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Jazzhead

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There's no mistaking your gestures, Jazz.  You wear your fascism on your sleeve.


"This machine kills fascists"

   -  Inscription on Woody Guthrie's guitar

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But I would slave to learn the way to sink your ship of fools"

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« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 01:38:14 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Jazzhead

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These sort of posting make the Hate Trump Always squad look like a bunch of overly emotional hysteric children.

Except that this thread was started by a Trumpster. 
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Thank you JZ fro proving the point that the TDS team is on the verge of a total emitional breakdown.

When you can return to reason, instead of this sort of emotionally hysteric attack posting, we might take you seriously. Until then we are just going to point at  you and laugh.

Offline mountaineer

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omg, these people rose their right hands (when the took the oath of American citizenship, but let's not quibble about details)!!!!!!!

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I fully agree with the Trumpkins that this article is garbage. Not only are pledges taken with the right hand almost universally (as a lefty that offends me, but I know that's just me so I don't make anything out of it).  Is this idiot really saying that Trump categorically could not be a fascist if he asked people to raise their left hand?  What if he asked them to stick their left foot out and shake it all about?  Fascism is about ideas and propaganda in support of those ideas.  It isn't about minor gestures like raising your right hand and pledging to support a candidate in a free election. 

There are so many other things of substance to object to Trump, why waste breath and credibility on inanities like this?

Offline Jazzhead

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Thank you JZ fro proving the point that the TDS team is on the verge of a total emitional breakdown.

When you can return to reason, instead of this sort of emotionally hysteric attack posting, we might take you seriously. Until then we are just going to point at  you and laugh.

What "attack posting"?  I said that raising hands at the Trump rally wasn't a fascist gesture - and got called a fascist for my trouble by aligncare. 

 

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Offline sinkspur

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I fully agree with the Trumpkins that this article is garbage. Not only are pledges taken with the right hand almost universally (as a lefty that offends me, but I know that's just me so I don't make anything out of it).  Is this idiot really saying that Trump categorically could not be a fascist if he asked people to raise their left hand?  What if he asked them to stick their left foot out and shake it all about?  Fascism is about ideas and propaganda in support of those ideas.  It isn't about minor gestures like raising your right hand and pledging to support a candidate in a free election. 

There are so many other things of substance to object to Trump, why waste breath and credibility on inanities like this?

We don't raise our hands in a pledge to specific human beings in America, at least I can't think of an instance. 

In addition, the optics of such a gesture with Trump standing there  begs for inevitable comparisons.
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Bill Cipher

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We don't raise our hands in a pledge to specific human beings in America, at least I can't think of an instance. 

In addition, the optics of such a gesture with Trump standing there  begs for inevitable comparisons.

Suppose they did the hokey pokey instead, does that change it?  If it were in a formalized situation with the trappings of fascism and Trump was asking for undying loyalty to him no matter what happened and no matter what he told them to do, that's one thing, but asking them to pledge to vote for him is just a silly carney trick. 

Offline sinkspur

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Suppose they did the hokey pokey instead, does that change it?  If it were in a formalized situation with the trappings of fascism and Trump was asking for undying loyalty to him no matter what happened and no matter what he told them to do, that's one thing, but asking them to pledge to vote for him is just a silly carney trick.

I see it differently, but that's OK.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Bill Cipher

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I see it differently, but that's OK.

I realize that.  I just think there are problems with Trump that have more meat on them. 

Offline mystery-ak

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3482195/Trump-s-ridiculous-compare-loyalty-pledge-Nazi-salute-ll-certainly-look-don-t-want-offend-anybody.html#ixzz42KLQQbgb

Trump: It's 'ridiculous' to compare my loyalty pledge to the Nazi salute - 'but I’ll certainly look into it because I don’t want to offend anybody'

    The oath, he said has been 'well-received' by his audiences; 'We’re having a good time. Honestly, until this phone call, I didn’t know it was a problem'
    GOP candidate was first observed asking his supporters to swear by his candidacy at an Orlando, Florida, rally last Saturday
    Abe Foxman, the former head of the Anti-Defamation League, said: 'It is a fascist gesture' and is 'offensive, obnoxious and disgusting'
    Trump told the Today show, 'That’s a big, big stretch'

By Francesca Chambers, White House Correspondent For Dailymail.com

Published: 09:10 EST, 8 March 2016 | Updated: 12:14 EST, 8 March 2016

Donald Trump says comparisons of the loyalty pledge he administers and the Nazi Germany, Heil Hitler salute are 'ridiculous' and 'crazy.'

The oath, he said has been 'well-received' by his audiences.

'Sometimes we’ll do it for fun, and they’ll start screaming at me, "Do the swearing! Do the swearing!" I mean, they’re having such a great time,' Trump said this morning in a phone-in to the Today show. 'We’re having a good time. Honestly, until this phone call, I didn’t know it was a problem.'

But now that it's come to his attention that not everyone feels that way about it, Trump said, 'I’ll certainly look into it because I don’t want to offend anybody.'

continued
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Offline DCPatriot

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We don't raise our hands in a pledge to specific human beings in America, at least I can't think of an instance. 

In addition, the optics of such a gesture with Trump standing there  begs for inevitable comparisons.






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Offline NavyCanDo

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What is does signify is Trump is noticing actual votes as of late being far lower than poll numbers going into the election.   When he is only up 8 points in Florida and single digits in Michigan as well in some polls, he fills it necessary to lock these votes in with a pledge, or for his own sense  of security give the impression these votes are locked in.

The pledge is not necessary though, because his supporters are not going anywhere. The polls being too high has everything to do with late-deciders not breaking Trumps way.   
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Offline Paladin

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Except that this thread was started by a Trumpster.

Correction. As I have explained on numerous occasions I support Ted Cruz. However, the Trump phenomenon dominates this political season and has led to some of the weirdest, most ridiculous, stupefying, and outlandish comments, observations, and opinions I have ever witnessed in my over 50+ years of being a political activist.

The topic of this thread is an excellent example, but we also have (as usual) examples of TDS right here in River City.

"I think it is an authoritarian thing to do, to have them raise their hand and take an oath to vote for him.  It disrespects the entire system of a Constitutional republic.  He should be earning their vote by explaining to them his positions, not by using emotion and guilt with oaths that enslave their conscience."

That is simply absurd. He asked for no oath, he enslaved no conscience. As I said, ridiculous comments.

"When he is only up 8 points in Florida and single digits in Michigan as well in some polls, he fills it necessary to lock these votes in with a pledge, or for his own sense  of security give the impression these votes are locked in."

Only 8 points in Rubio's home state? Is it any wonder he seeks a "sense  of security". Sheeessshhh.

That sort of thing, Jazzhead, including many, many of your own comments, is why I defend Trump while you mistakenly believe I support his candidacy. I don't, but I do support rationality, adult conduct, an end to the constant ad hominems against Trump or any other candidate, and restraint by you anti-Trumpsters, something which seems to be completely lacking among you.

Is that too much to ask?
Members of the anti-Trump cabal: Now that Mr Trump has sewn up the nomination, I want you to know I feel your pain.