Author Topic: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party  (Read 1254 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« on: February 29, 2016, 09:09:53 pm »
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/02/29/donald-trump-republican-party-elections-2016-third-party-column/81102918/
As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party

Randy E. Barnett 3:23 p.m. EST February 29, 2016

A Trump nomination would destroy the GOP unless Republicans can find a replacement.
 
Is it time for a new third party? Not yet. But if Donald Trump gets the Republican nomination, then a new third party will be an imperative — and the time for organizing it is now.

I have long vocally opposed third parties as irrational in our two-party system. They inevitably drain votes away from the major party closest to them, thereby benefiting the major party that is even worse. But strategies must adjust to circumstances. If Trump wins the GOP nominations, one of two things will happen, either of which would be disastrous for the Constitution and for the country.

If Trump wins, he’s made clear he cares nothing for the constitutional constraints on the president, or on government generally. His ignorance of our republican Constitution — to match his ignorance of much else — and his strong-man approach to governance would make Trump’s election a political cataclysm second only to Southern secession in its danger to our constitutional republic.

For this reason, millions of patriotic Americans who would ordinarily vote GOP — including most conservatives and all constitutionalists — will never vote for him. Yet were he somehow to win without them — say by moving to the left of Hillary Clinton to capture the Sanders vote — a Trump presidency would doom America as an exceptional nation.

Far more likely, however, once the Republican nomination is in his grasp, the media who have been irresponsibly reaping the ratings whirlwind will lay waste to Donald Trump in conjunction with the Democrats. His presidential campaign will be reduced to a few million die-hard Trumpies and little more. Down-ticket Republican candidates will flee him like poison (as Mitch McConnell has already suggested). But to what end?

Here is where a new third party comes in: as a lifeboat for anyone aboard the sinking GOP ship — first and foremost patriotic voters, but also GOP candidates and office holders throughout the nation. They will desperately need another vessel they can support in good conscience.

And let’s be frank. By refusing to credit the legitimate concerns of ordinary Americans, the GOP establishment created Donald Trump. And many K Street Republicans will rush to embrace him because they know he has no principles and will be happy to deal.

What the nation needs is a new party that is expressly dedicated to upholding the Constitution of the United States, however it may cut politically — a party that can attract principled conservatives, but also any American who is tired of crony capitalism, runaway government and rule by an out-of-touch political class.

Should such a party split the GOP vote and throw the election to Hillary, this beats a Trump presidency, which would inevitably remake the Republican Party in the Donald's own image. And, if Republicans hold onto Congress, divided government under Hillary beats one-man rule by a demagogue and his party.

But if the Democrats succeed in collapsing a Trump campaign — as I believe they can and will — then GOP voters can seamlessly shift to the new party. And, if this happens, such a party can either actually win outright or throw the election into the House, which is allowed to pick from the top candidates, in this case, three. Win or lose, such a new party can even sweep away the existing out-of-touch national Republican Party. The U.S. has a two-party system, but it does not have to be these two parties.

Parties die. The Whigs died because they could not bring themselves to stand against the Democratic Party that overwhelmingly supported or, at least, tolerated slavery in the South and its extension into the territories, thereby threatening the North. So a new Republican Party very quickly arose to replace it. Now the national GOP establishment’s failure to listen to the people is on the verge of giving us Donald Trump. If it does, it deserves to be replaced by a party that puts the Constitution first and politics second.

It is (almost) time for an American Constitution Party.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 09:10:17 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

HonestJohn

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 11:34:16 pm »
I agree with this.

Offline ABX

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 11:36:21 pm »
The Libertarians may have a big opportunity if they shed some of their nuttier positions/candidates and focus on the virtues that unite Conservatives and Libertarians on many issues.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 11:44:15 pm »
Sure, Go ahead and prove what perpetual children GOPe bots are. After decades demanding we "hold our nose and vote" for whom even the GOP threw up,  the same people now want to take their ball and go home because they are losing

Enjoy your poltical irrelevance kids.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 11:49:58 pm »
The Libertarians may have a big opportunity if they shed some of their nuttier positions/candidates and focus on the virtues that unite Conservatives and Libertarians on many issues.
Problem being about 1/2 half of their platform is nutter stuff.

--Their 2000 candidate, Harry Browne, blamed America for 9/11 prompting Larry Elder to leave the LP.

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Offline ABX

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 11:50:19 pm »
Sure, Go ahead and prove what perpetual children GOPe bots are. After decades demanding we "hold our nose and vote" for whom even the GOP threw up,  the same people now want to take their ball and go home because they are losing

Enjoy your poltical irrelevance kids.

Actually, we are saying we aren't going to keep doing the same thing over and over (holding our nose) and expecting different results. That defines something, I can't seem to recall what. This is about principle, not party. The GOP is the one who keeps telling us to hold our nose and vote for the candidate with the "R" behind their name just because they have an "R". They are now starting to deliver one that is so not palatable, with no redeeming Conservative qualities to make holding our nose worth it.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 11:50:28 pm »
Sure, Go ahead and prove what perpetual children GOPe bots are. After decades demanding we "hold our nose and vote" for whom even the GOP threw up,  the same people now want to take their ball and go home because they are losing

Enjoy your poltical irrelevance kids.

If we "take our ball and go home," your boy will get killed Nov. 6.  I think that's going to happen anyway, but he can't lose conservatives and expect to win over Hillary.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2016, 12:26:42 am »
The GOP is the one who keeps telling us to hold our nose and vote for the candidate with the "R" behind their name just because they have an "R". They are now starting to deliver one that is so not palatable, with no redeeming Conservative qualities to make holding our nose worth it.

The "they" you speak of is not the Republican establishment...they are 4-square with you.  The "they" you are complaining about are the voters in the Republican primaries and caucuses...who are telling the establishment where they can stuff it.  Your problem is with the voters.  Perhaps you should devise a system that takes the voters out of the equation?
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 12:30:03 am »
The GOP is the one who keeps telling us to hold our nose and vote for the candidate with the "R" behind their name just because they have an "R". They are now starting to deliver one that is so not palatable, with no redeeming Conservative qualities to make holding our nose worth it.

The "they" you speak of is not the Republican establishment...they are 4-square with you.  The "they" you are complaining about are the voters in the Republican primaries and caucuses...who are telling the establishment where they can stuff it.  Your problem is with the voters.  Perhaps you should devise a system that takes the voters out of the equation?

Excellent point, Scott.  Many seem to be missing that.

Offline PzLdr

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 12:44:43 am »
Consider a political suicide party. That's about what you'll accomplish.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2016, 01:01:27 am »
The GOP is the one who keeps telling us to hold our nose and vote for the candidate with the "R" behind their name just because they have an "R". They are now starting to deliver one that is so not palatable, with no redeeming Conservative qualities to make holding our nose worth it.

The "they" you speak of is not the Republican establishment...they are 4-square with you.  The "they" you are complaining about are the voters in the Republican primaries and caucuses...who are telling the establishment where they can stuff it.  Your problem is with the voters.  Perhaps you should devise a system that takes the voters out of the equation?

This brings to mind HL Mencken's famous quote:  "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online massadvj

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2016, 01:30:45 am »
This brings to mind HL Mencken's famous quote:  "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

OPapDoc explained.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2016, 01:39:19 am »
Gaaack!  Everyone talks about Ross Perot with such contempt - how would this be any different?  I don't want to say this is delusional...

...but, it's delusional!

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We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline aligncare

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2016, 01:53:00 am »
Sure, Go ahead and prove what perpetual children GOPe bots are. After decades demanding we "hold our nose and vote" for whom even the GOP threw up,  the same people now want to take their ball and go home because they are losing

Enjoy your poltical irrelevance kids.

RNC/GOP has always claimed they want to grow the party. Bring in a diverse cross section of Americans. Trump pulls in those EXACT demographics and they want to throw the election to Hillary!  :shrug:  (Paging "Trump's in it for Hillary" Bigun to the white curtesy phone)

Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2016, 02:12:43 am »
If we "take our ball and go home," your boy will get killed Nov. 6.  I think that's going to happen anyway, but he can't lose conservatives and expect to win over Hillary.


Neither Hillary nor The DoNull will be chosen as their parties candidate.


Hillary BEATS trump in the head to head polls/ as does berned-out sanders.


ita a tad premature to pronounce these to as THE Candidates.


Joey Biden and Bloomberg both stand a better chance of being NOMINATED as the demagogue candidate


We should not bet on donull   getting past the conventions, as the Rep party isn't about to choose anyone who has already lost to hillary and bernie in the head to head arena.







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Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2016, 02:15:12 am »
RNC/GOP has always claimed they want to grow the party. Bring in a diverse cross section of Americans. Trump pulls in those EXACT demographics and they want to throw the election to Hillary!  :shrug:  (Paging "Trump's in it for Hillary" Bigun to the white curtesy phone)


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html


Hillary beats trump...in  the latest head to head polls.  WHO is going to NVEST a party's future  and the Nations,... on a losing candidate?  It isn't going to happen!
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Offline Meshuge Mikey

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2016, 02:16:37 am »
Gaaack!  Everyone talks about Ross Perot with such contempt - how would this be any different?  I don't want to say this is delusional...

...but, it's delusional!










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Offline sinkspur

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2016, 02:18:26 am »
RNC/GOP has always claimed they want to grow the party. Bring in a diverse cross section of Americans. Trump pulls in those EXACT demographics and they want to throw the election to Hillary!  :shrug:  (Paging "Trump's in it for Hillary" Bigun to the white curtesy phone)

Hell, Trump can't even bring in most REPUBLICANS!! And you think dragging in racists, bigots, and white supremacists is EXACTLY the demographic we should bring in?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2016, 02:35:27 am »

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_presidential_race.html


Hillary beats trump...in  the latest head to head polls.  WHO is going to NVEST a party's future  and the Nations,... on a losing candidate?  It isn't going to happen!

Quite correct.  Trump's a delusion.   No way America's going to elect that fascist nutter. 

Unless, I fear,  there's a third party.   You-know-who was elected in 1933 with a plurality of the vote in a free election.  Trump has to be denied the nomination. 

I kind of like the idea of just letting Trump pitch himself over the side.  The RNC should officially Piss Him Off, so he claims unfairness and bolts for an independent run.  Six months ago the RNC was on eggshells lest they anger Trump and he'd bolt to go third party.  Let him.   Let him run, but not under the imprimatur of the GOP.

At the very least, it will force Trump to put his money where his mouth is.  Suddenly, he'd have to qualify as an independent in fifty states and that will cost time and money.   The way to defeat Trump is to make him spend his own money.   


   
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Offline alicewonders

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2016, 06:34:09 am »
Quite correct.  Trump's a delusion.   No way America's going to elect that fascist nutter. 

Unless, I fear,  there's a third party.   You-know-who was elected in 1933 with a plurality of the vote in a free election.  Trump has to be denied the nomination. 

I kind of like the idea of just letting Trump pitch himself over the side.  The RNC should officially Piss Him Off, so he claims unfairness and bolts for an independent run.  Six months ago the RNC was on eggshells lest they anger Trump and he'd bolt to go third party.  Let him.   Let him run, but not under the imprimatur of the GOP.

At the very least, it will force Trump to put his money where his mouth is.  Suddenly, he'd have to qualify as an independent in fifty states and that will cost time and money.   The way to defeat Trump is to make him spend his own money.   


   

Trump doesn't need to leave the GOP to run third party - he's already running third party WITHIN the Republican party!

Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline R4 TrumPence

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 06:49:24 am »
Wow!

And when Trump picks his VP, Rubio, Cruz, or Kasich, you will all abandon them too?

Since Sessions has been preparing him for a long time to run, i have to ask, I thought he was the grand poobah, of the conservative senate?  I guess Trump Brainwashed him and all the great conservatives that support him. **nononono* **nononono*


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Offline alicewonders

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2016, 07:31:11 am »
Wow!

And when Trump picks his VP, Rubio, Cruz, or Kasich, you will all abandon them too?

Since Sessions has been preparing him for a long time to run, i have to ask, I thought he was the grand poobah, of the conservative senate?  I guess Trump Brainwashed him and all the great conservatives that support him. **nononono* **nononono*

Trump possessed them.



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We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline aligncare

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Re: As Trump rises, consider a 3rd party
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2016, 01:35:38 pm »

Trump is the third-party: the American Party.

The other two represent globalism, cronyism, grinding bureaucracy, political correctness, big monied special interests, imperious politicians, illegal immigration lobby, political corruption, waste, fraud and abuse. I give you: the UNIPARTY.

It's Super Tuesday, folks! Go Trumpman!