Author Topic: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination  (Read 5503 times)

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HonestJohn

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2016, 08:43:20 pm »
<--- Please see my user avatar.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:44:23 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline flowers

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2016, 08:54:15 pm »

All right, I get the message. Just proves my point.
I was agreeing with you. this thread went off track...then maybe could have gone back on track....but no!


Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2016, 08:59:02 pm »
Jazzhead, you can be so right sometimes.  Then you go and post stuff like this.  We don't want another squishy, kowtow to the Dems, big government guy in the White House!  And, that is exactly who Kasich is.

I understand the frustration with the ability of the GOP leadership in Congress to thwart the schemes of a President who plays hardball all the time and has no good faith intention of reaching out to Republicans.    That frustration has reached such levels that many are unable to understand the practical limitations to thwarting such a dishonorable individual,  and clamor for an outsider or bomb-thrower. 

But the dynamic with a President Kasich would be completely different.   Kasich would not be running as a bomb-thrower,  but as a pragmatic, sensible conservative.   He'd present the best circumstances possible for having the long coattails needed to keep the Congress in GOP hands (a hard task, since so many GOP Senate seats are up for grabs this year).   Kasich has pledged to be an activist conservative,  working with a GOP Congress to drive legislation within his first months in office.  ("Fasten your seatbelts", as he says)

 I think he can do it.   I think he can do what even Reagan could not,  because Reagan didn't have Congress in his corner.  Kasich likely would.   

Folks need to start thinking dynamically, not simply reactively.   A Kasich victory would take place in the context of the GOP in control, not the GOP as obstructionists.   We're not all that good at obstruction - but we can kick ass when we are able to set the agenda, with a President at our backs rather than in our faces. 

Trump (or Cruz) will just lead us down the primrose path to electoral defeat.   It's better to win than to lose - especially with the stakes being so sky-high.   
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 09:03:32 pm by Jazzhead »
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Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2016, 09:15:15 pm »
I was agreeing with you. this thread went off track...then maybe could have gone back on track....but no!
Fair enough. And so, to help get the thread back on track I will offer this: I like John Kasich a lot.


But not for President.


Were I the President, or were the person that I would like to see as President now in office, I would support John Kasich without hesitation, for postmaster general.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2016, 09:21:37 pm »
The GOP will lose both the Presidency and the Senate.

People at the Cruz supporter extreme, call Kasich a democrat and a liberal, so severely have they compromised and really ruined the language.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline flowers

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2016, 09:27:11 pm »
Fair enough. And so, to help get the thread back on track I will offer this: I like John Kasich a lot.


But not for President.


Were I the President, or were the person that I would like to see as President now in office, I would support John Kasich without hesitation, for postmaster general.
:laugh:


Offline Sanguine

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2016, 10:04:13 pm »
Fair enough. And so, to help get the thread back on track I will offer this: I like John Kasich a lot.


But not for President.


Were I the President, or were the person that I would like to see as President now in office, I would support John Kasich without hesitation, for postmaster general.

Nice.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2016, 10:05:30 pm »
I understand the frustration with the ability of the GOP leadership in Congress to thwart the schemes of a President who plays hardball all the time and has no good faith intention of reaching out to Republicans.    That frustration has reached such levels that many are unable to understand the practical limitations to thwarting such a dishonorable individual,  and clamor for an outsider or bomb-thrower. 

But the dynamic with a President Kasich would be completely different.   Kasich would not be running as a bomb-thrower,  but as a pragmatic, sensible conservative.   He'd present the best circumstances possible for having the long coattails needed to keep the Congress in GOP hands (a hard task, since so many GOP Senate seats are up for grabs this year).   Kasich has pledged to be an activist conservative,  working with a GOP Congress to drive legislation within his first months in office.  ("Fasten your seatbelts", as he says)

 I think he can do it.   I think he can do what even Reagan could not,  because Reagan didn't have Congress in his corner.  Kasich likely would.   

Folks need to start thinking dynamically, not simply reactively.   A Kasich victory would take place in the context of the GOP in control, not the GOP as obstructionists.   We're not all that good at obstruction - but we can kick ass when we are able to set the agenda, with a President at our backs rather than in our faces. 

Trump (or Cruz) will just lead us down the primrose path to electoral defeat.   It's better to win than to lose - especially with the stakes being so sky-high.   

Jazzhead, you keep sounding like you actually believe that what is wrong now can be fixed by the usual political process.  I don't want to alarm you, but it just ain't so. 

Offline flowers

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2016, 10:12:53 pm »
Jazzhead, you keep sounding like you actually believe that what is wrong now can be fixed by the usual political process.  I don't want to alarm you, but it just ain't so.
Correct.......it just ain't so!


Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2016, 10:18:02 pm »
Jazzhead, you keep sounding like you actually believe that what is wrong now can be fixed by the usual political process.  I don't want to alarm you, but it just ain't so.

I understand, Sanguine.   But, respectfully, I disagree.  I think the usual political process can indeed work, if the the primary villain,  President Obama, is removed from the process and replaced with a Republican who doesn't similarly view his role as mortal combat with the enemy.   

Effective bi-partisan legislation used to the norm.   Take the federal law of employee benefits, ERISA, which was enacted in 1974 and represents, to me, an almost ideal example of comprehensive legislation that takes into account the reasonable interests of both management and labor.   ObamaCare poisoned the well,  because it was jammed down our throats without any input sought from the other side.   It's the dynamic that needs to be changed in Washington, not the system itself.  The Founders devised a brilliant system of checks and balances, which can still work if we could change the extreme partisan animus in D.C.   Kasich could indeed do that, and in a way he represents the most revolutionary candidate out there.   

Don't take my comments to mean that I'm any less angry and frustrated than you are.  Obama is the worst President of my lifetime,  and the only word that accurately describes Harry Reid is scumbag.   But I've been around long enough to remember a time when Washington was a place of comity and committment to public service,  where the give and take of left and right led to constructive policy, not partisan bile and obstruction.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2016, 10:25:47 pm »
I understand, Sanguine.   But, respectfully, I disagree.  I think the usual political process can indeed work, if the the primary villain,  President Obama, is removed from the process and replaced with a Republican who doesn't similarly view his role as mortal combat with the enemy.   

Effective bi-partisan legislation used to the norm.   Take the federal law of employee benefits, ERISA, which was enacted in 1974 and represents, to me, an almost ideal example of comprehensive legislation that takes into account the reasonable interests of both management and labor.   ObamaCare poisoned the well,  because it was jammed down our throats without any input sought from the other side.   It's the dynamic that needs to be changed in Washington, not the system itself.  The Founders devised a brilliant system of checks and balances, which can still work if we could change the extreme partisan animus in D.C.   Kasich could indeed do that, and in a way he represents the most revolutionary candidate out there.   

Don't take my comments to mean that I'm any less angry and frustrated than you are.  Obama is the worst President of my lifetime,  and the only word that accurately describes Harry Reid is scumbag.   But I've been around long enough to remember a time when Washington was a place of comity and committment to public service,  where the give and take of left and right led to constructive policy, not partisan bile and obstruction.

I know you disagree.  And, I enjoy your optimism.  However, it's not very helpful in the situation we find ourselves in.

I meant to add:  0bama is NOT the problem and getting rid of him will not solve the problem. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 11:21:20 pm by Sanguine »

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 12:16:40 pm »
I know you disagree.  And, I enjoy your optimism.  However, it's not very helpful in the situation we find ourselves in.

I meant to add:  0bama is NOT the problem and getting rid of him will not solve the problem.

Don't misunderstand, Sanguine -  it's not so much a matter of optimism,  because I'm angry just as you are.   It's a matter of constructive vs. destructive anger.  Those who insist we tear everything down will be faced with the task of rebuilding.  And more to the point,  destructive anger has consequences.   A Trump nomination will scratch that itch,  but it won't heal the wound.   It will lead, almost all experts agree,  to the GOP's loss of both the Presidency and the Senate.   

Constructive anger means we keep in mind that much of the puzzle is in place.   We maintain control of Congress,  and that gives us the ability to set a positive agenda if we can just add the missing piece - the Presidency.   Obama IS the heart and soul of the problem - he's forced us to abandon a positive agenda in favor of obstructionism.   

Kasich can spark a new Reagan-style revolution.   His inclusive appeal gives us the best shot at the whole enchilada - gain the Presidency, and retain the Congress.   That ought to be our eye-single goal - to grasp the prize that is so close within reach,  if we can just temper the destructiveness of our anger and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.   
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 12:21:08 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 12:54:52 pm »
 Trump Tweet

Remember, it was the Republican Party, with the help of Conservatives, that made so many promises to their base, BUT DIDN’T KEEP THEM! Hi DT

Pretty tough to argue with the point. Lots of Campaign trail "Conservatives" went to DC in 2010 and 2014 and did not keep their promises to the base. Everyone from John Kaisch to Ted Cruz is on the campaign trail claiming to be "The Real Conservative". When John "God wants us to grow the Welare state: Kasicih can call himself "Conservative" the word has lost all meaning.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 01:05:28 pm »
Don't misunderstand, Sanguine -  it's not so much a matter of optimism,  because I'm angry just as you are.   It's a matter of constructive vs. destructive anger.  Those who insist we tear everything down will be faced with the task of rebuilding.  And more to the point,  destructive anger has consequences.   A Trump nomination will scratch that itch,  but it won't heal the wound.   It will lead, almost all experts agree,  to the GOP's loss of both the Presidency and the Senate.   

Constructive anger means we keep in mind that much of the puzzle is in place.   We maintain control of Congress,  and that gives us the ability to set a positive agenda if we can just add the missing piece - the Presidency.   Obama IS the heart and soul of the problem - he's forced us to abandon a positive agenda in favor of obstructionism.   

Kasich can spark a new Reagan-style revolution.   His inclusive appeal gives us the best shot at the whole enchilada - gain the Presidency, and retain the Congress.   That ought to be our eye-single goal - to grasp the prize that is so close within reach,  if we can just temper the destructiveness of our anger and not throw the baby out with the bathwater.   

There are many ways to get rid of a pest problem in your home. Burning your house down to the ground with everything that you own inside certainly is one of those ways, just not the smartest one,

I had a friend of mine explain (on Facebook) why he supported Trump. He detailed how running the country like a corporation, with the Presidency working closely with corporate leaders to bring about changes and order, would be the solution to our problems. If needed, he said, the President would take charge of some industries, for the betterment of the nation.

I quoted Benito Mussolini explaining how Fascism was really corporativism, and basically describing the exact same situation my friend had just described.

His response was astounding. I'll post the entire exchange:

My post:

Quote
"The corporate State considers that private enterprise in the sphere of production is the most effective and usefu [sic] [typo-should be: useful] instrument in the interest of the nation. In view of the fact that private organisation of production is a function of national concern, the organiser of the enterprise is responsible to the State for the direction given to production.

State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management." (pp. 135-136) - Benito Mussolini, 1935, Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions

His response:

Quote
If that's fascism this country could use some.

He is a good guy. Known him for years.

He's more of a mainstream conservative that I am. I am too much of a libertarian for him some times.

That was a frightening response.

Last month, at a rally in the University of Virginia, Trump made a promise to the crowd:

"We’re going to get Apple to build their damn computers in this country instead of other countries."

The crowd cheered wildly an chanted his name.

Never mind that there is no legal way for Trump to force Apple to do that.

Never mind that it makes absolutely no sense for Apple to willingly do that.

Never mind that the cost of Apple products would become prohibitive for the majority of US consumers if that actually happened.

Never mind the fact that Apple wouldn’t be able to find enough skilled U.S. workers to fill its manufacturing jobs.

People liked the sound of it, so they support Trump. They don't know it, but by supporting Trump, they're supporting Fascism.

We're about to set the house on fire to get rid of the pests in the walls.

The pests will survive, but we'll be left homeless.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 01:37:08 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline aligncare

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 01:11:50 pm »
Trump Tweet

Remember, it was the Republican Party, with the help of Conservatives, that made so many promises to their base, BUT DIDN’T KEEP THEM! Hi DT

Pretty tough to argue with the point. Lots of Campaign trail "Conservatives" went to DC in 2010 and 2014 and did not keep their promises to the base. Everyone from John Kaisch to Ted Cruz is on the campaign trail claiming to be "The Real Conservative". When John "God wants us to grow the Welare state: Kasicih can call himself "Conservative" the word has lost all meaning.

The word "conservative," (as used in campaigns by RINOS to win reelection), is dead to me.

Since my very first vote for George HW Bush I have alway, each time, voted for the politican claiming the most (SuperDuper) conservative pedigree.

That psychological tic ends with this election. This time I'm voting to disrupt the GOP establishment's deception; all of it. The meaningless, phony, show votes, intended to misdirect conservative voters into thinking members of the GOPe are (hold onto your hats...) SuperDuper conservatives! Then, once they're in office, yet again, it's back to the same old thing.

Fool me seven times...shame on me.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 01:19:48 pm »
Trump Tweet

Remember, it was the Republican Party, with the help of Conservatives, that made so many promises to their base, BUT DIDN’T KEEP THEM! Hi DT

Pretty tough to argue with the point. Lots of Campaign trail "Conservatives" went to DC in 2010 and 2014 and did not keep their promises to the base. Everyone from John Kaisch to Ted Cruz is on the campaign trail claiming to be "The Real Conservative". When John "God wants us to grow the Welare state: Kasicih can call himself "Conservative" the word has lost all meaning.

Trump has promised that he will deport 11+ million people in 18 months.

Trump has promised that he will bring back millions of jobs gone overseas.

Trump has promised to stop Muslims from entering the country legally.

Trump has promised to build a wall paid for by Mexico.

Trump has promised that once he's President, we'll say "Merry Christmas" again.

Trump has promised to close down "some" mosques.

Trump has promised to target and kill the families of known terrorists.

Trump has promised to drop that "dirty, rotten traitor" Bowe Bergdahl out of an airplane into desolate Afghanistan without a parachute.

Trump has promised to renegotiate ALL foreign trade deals.

Trump has promised to force Nabisco into making Oreos in the US.

Trump has promised that he will force Apple to build their products in the US.

Trump has promised that on his first day in office he will get rid of gun-free zones in schools.

Trump has promised to end birthright citizenship.

There are many, many more promises.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 01:27:02 pm »
There are many ways to get rid of a pest problem in your home. Burning your house down to the ground with everything that you own inside certainly is one of those ways, just not the smartest one,

 
Last month, at a rally in the University of Virginia, Trump made a promise to the crowd:

"We’re going to get Apple to build their damn computers in this country instead of other countries."

The crowd cheered wildly an chanted his name.

Never mind that there is no legal way for Trump to force Apple to do that.

Never mind that it makes absolutely no sense for Apple to willingly do that.

Never mind that the cost of Apple products would become prohibitive for the majority of US consumers if that actually happened.

Never mind the fact that Apple wouldn’t be able to find enough skilled U.S. workers to fill its manufacturing jobs.

People liked the sound of it, so they support Trump. They don't know it, but by supporting Trump, they're supporting Fascism.

We're about to set the house on fire to get rid of the pests in the walls.

The pests will survive, but we'll be left homeless.

Great analogy. 
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Sanguine

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 01:31:21 pm »
Trump?  How did Trump get into this conversation?

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 01:31:56 pm »
The word "conservative," (as used in campaigns by RINOS to win reelection), is dead to me.


But, as per Luis's brilliant insight, I must ask you - what about fascism?   

Destructive anger is leading us to the precipice where we may be facing a choice this fall between a fascist and a socialist. 
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 01:34:42 pm »
Number one principal of Conservatism is working for small limited Constitutional Government. Kasich has campaign on the exact opposite principals. To call him "Conservative" demonstrates the word simply is meaningless in the current Political Establishment's lexicon.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 01:34:53 pm »
Trump?  How did Trump get into this conversation?

GA Johhnie posted a Trump tweet
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline aligncare

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 01:36:58 pm »
Trump?  How did Trump get into this conversation?

Why ask? You know the answer: the blind, raging hatred for his candidacy. For some folks here, there is no talking up their own candidate; it's all about tearing down Donald Trump, first.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 01:37:42 pm »
Trump?  How did Trump get into this conversation?

Trump's the product of blind, destructive anger.   As Luis notes, Trump's made more outrageous, unkeepable promises than all the other candidates put together.  It doesn't matter - his followers have placed their critical faculties in a lockbox.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2016, 01:39:28 pm »
Why ask? You know the answer: the blind, raging hatred for his candidacy. For some folks here, there is no talking up their own candidate; it's all about tearing down Donald Trump, first.

It seems that the blindness is yours.

Trump got into the conversation when GAJohnnie posted a tweet of his that YOU replied to.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 01:40:02 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How John Kasich Plans to Win the Nomination
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2016, 01:40:01 pm »
Why ask? You know the answer: the blind, raging hatred for his candidacy. For some folks here, there is no talking up their own candidate; it's all about tearing down Donald Trump, first.

Po' wittle Dear Leader.     
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