Author Topic: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment  (Read 455 times)

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Offline Free Vulcan

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/10/how-new-hampshire-turned-into-a-nightmare-for-the-republican-establishment/

It's hard to imagine the New Hampshire primary going any worse for establishment Republicans.

Desperate to find a candidate to coalesce around in hopes of stopping the populist insurrection of Donald Trump and the conservative uprising championed by Ted Cruz, the establishment instead got the opposite: a three-way split decision between John Kasich, Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio that ensures an extended, nasty and expensive fight simply to emerge as the third guy in the top tier.

The goal for most unaligned establishment Republicans heading into the eight-day gap between Iowa's caucuses and New Hampshire's primary was that Rubio emerge as the clear-cut favorite for their wing of the party with a second place finish -- behind only Donald Trump — in the Granite State. Rubio seemed on his way to doing just that until Saturday night's debate when he just kept repeating the same line about President Obama knowing exactly what he is doing.

That brain glitch, which was seized on and exploited by Chris Christie, stopped Rubio's momentum — a fact he acknowledged in the wake of his disappointing fifth place finish on Tuesday.

Rubio's debate stumble left New Hampshire Republicans in search of a candidate not named Trump or Cruz at sea.  Kasich, the Ohio governor, was the most obvious beneficiary — winning 21 percent of those who made up their minds in the last few days before the primary. But, Bush benefited some too. And Rubio didn't completely collapse either.)

That left establishment candidates in second (Kasich), fourth (Jeb), fifth (Rubio) and sixth (Christie) when all the New Hampshire votes were counted. Christie will almost certainly get out of the race today. But, for Kasich and Bush, the results in New Hampshire were good enough to justify continuing on in the race to South Carolina, which is set to hold its primary on Feb. 20. And Rubio's fifth place showing was bad but not nearly bad enough to drive him from the race.

(Sidenote: Bush's case to continue on — fourth place in a state where he spent $36 million on ads — is somewhat suspect but the strength of his family name and the fact that he has money left to spend means he will go forward.)

The next 10 days then will be a battle royal between Bush, Rubio and Kasich — all clamoring for the establishment spot before the race goes national on March 1 in the so-called SEC primary; "Bush plans scorched-earth attack on Kasich, Rubio " read a headline from Politico on Tuesday.

There are three problems with that scenario if you are an establishment GOPer who wants to see one of that trio be your nominee:

1. Shooting at each other means not shooting at Trump or Cruz, who, at the moment, are the two front-runners for the Republican nomination.

2. There isn't enough establishment vote in South Carolina for it to be split three ways. South Carolina's Republican party does have a country club/business wing — largely based in and around Charleston — but the evangelical/tea party wing, based in the northern reaches of the state, is larger and more important in a presidential primary.

3. It's hard to see how South Carolina produces a final verdict in the establishment side of the primary. Rubio and Bush should do best in the state — given current polling and their profiles — but Kasich is the momentum candidate. A(nother) muddle is the most likely scenario.

What New Hampshire did was ensure that the fight to be the establishment candidate wasn't going to be a knockout but rather decided on a decision after 12 rounds of boxing.  That's a terrible thing for a party who faces not one but two existential threats in the form of Trump and Cruz.

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Hard to believe that this TWICE this decade that I've agreed with the Post. I'll still run a self-diagnostic on my internal conservative processors, but I'd say they got this right.

I was thinking the same thing last night - the GOPe wing has yet to find it's candidate, to the benefit of Trump and Cruz.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 05:36:11 pm by Free Vulcan »
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Online Bigun

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 05:40:23 pm »
Quote
There are three problems with that scenario if you are an establishment GOPer who wants to see one of that trio be your nominee:

1. Shooting at each other means not shooting at Trump or Cruz, who, at the moment, are the two front-runners for the Republican nomination.

2. There isn't enough establishment vote in South Carolina for it to be split three ways. South Carolina's Republican party does have a country club/business wing — largely based in and around Charleston — but the evangelical/tea party wing, based in the northern reaches of the state, is larger and more important in a presidential primary.

3. It's hard to see how South Carolina produces a final verdict in the establishment side of the primary. Rubio and Bush should do best in the state — given current polling and their profiles — but Kasich is the momentum candidate. A(nother) muddle is the most likely scenario.

What New Hampshire did was ensure that the fight to be the establishment candidate wasn't going to be a knockout but rather decided on a decision after 12 rounds of boxing.  That's a terrible thing for a party who faces not one but two existential threats in the form of Trump and Cruz.

I love it when that happens!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 05:45:59 pm »
What nightmare?   Before NH, there were four electable conservatives, and now (with Christie's withdrawal) there are three.   The field is being winnowed, and will be further.   Trump's support probably won't rise much beyond the one-third he received in NH;  I think he'll be hurt in future primaries that limit participation to actual Republicans.   Cruz can rise higher than that because he's a principled conservative,  but electability concerns will dog him.   The odds still favor one of the electable conservatives. 

In a perfect world,  Jeb would concede and withdraw.   His violation of Reagan's 11th commandment has sunk him in my estimation,  notwithstanding his credentials.   I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 05:46:28 pm by Jazzhead »
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Online Bigun

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 05:51:55 pm »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 06:06:57 pm »
What nightmare?   Before NH, there were four electable conservatives, and now (with Christie's withdrawal) there are three.   The field is being winnowed, and will be further.   Trump's support probably won't rise much beyond the one-third he received in NH;  I think he'll be hurt in future primaries that limit participation to actual Republicans.   Cruz can rise higher than that because he's a principled conservative,  but electability concerns will dog him.   The odds still favor one of the electable conservatives. 

In a perfect world,  Jeb would concede and withdraw.   His violation of Reagan's 11th commandment has sunk him in my estimation,  notwithstanding his credentials.   I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad.

Very nice sidestep and deflect. Bottom line is we're 3 weeks away from Super Tuesday and no defined GOPe candidate. Time is not on their side.

Until they do, they will be fighting for scraps while Trump and Cruz grab the spoils. If no GOPe candidate emerges fast, they will all be driven out of the race by mid-March.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 06:08:26 pm by Free Vulcan »
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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2016, 06:17:42 pm »
I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad. 

Son, I hate to break this to you...Kasich has had his big day and it got him second place.
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Offline flowers

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 06:24:55 pm »
I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad. 

Son, I hate to break this to you...Kasich has had his big day and it got him second place.
:laugh:  that is a fact!


Online Bigun

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 06:29:04 pm »
I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad. 

Son, I hate to break this to you...Kasich has had his big day and it got him second place.

 :thumbsup:  :beer:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2016, 06:40:17 pm »
I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad. 

Son, I hate to break this to you...Kasich has had his big day and it got him second place.

...in New Hampshire.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2016, 06:46:18 pm »
I'm hoping Kasich's momentum will allow him to outpoll Bush in SC and convince Bush's donors to stop throwing good money after bad. 

Son, I hate to break this to you...Kasich has had his big day and it got him second place.

Yep, Kaisch does not get out of single digits anywhere. He spent all his time and money in NH. Has no money, no organization and no base of support. I have to wonder if Kaisch whole purpose in being in the race wasn't to jam up the Establishments "Fast Lane". It the only explanation, other then habitual substance abuse, to explain why this "Movement Conservative" decided to suddenly veer to the far far  left side of the GOP during this campaign

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2016, 06:59:12 pm »
No Kasich won't break out, and I don't see Bush or Rubio doing so either. You got a pie cut into thirds, two of which have a front runner, but 3 candidates are fighting for one of those thirds with a whole lot of contests bearing down the next 3 1/2 weeks.

If there is not a clear GOPe frontrunner, fast, there never will be. They'll fight for the third piece till they consume themselves, and the other two will divide up the last third to themselves.
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Re: How New Hampshire turned into a nightmare for the Republican establishment
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 07:07:59 pm »
No Kasich won't break out, and I don't see Bush or Rubio doing so either. You got a pie cut into thirds, two of which have a front runner, but 3 candidates are fighting for one of those thirds with a whole lot of contests bearing down the next 3 1/2 weeks.

If there is not a clear GOPe frontrunner, fast, there never will be. They'll fight for the third piece till they consume themselves, and the other two will divide up the last third to themselves.

Pretty much.  We saw it in 2012 with Romney.  The majority of Republican voters did not want him, but as other candidates split the vote, he was able to win.  It's not as bad this time, but the same dynamic is playing out.

And I'd say it's due to the deluge of easy money now floating around in political campaigns.  Why get out if there is still plenty of money to finance your campaign?  Not to mention how superPAC funds can be transferred to personal bank accounts after the campaign is over.

(As much as Stephen Colbert was a false image of a conservative, he did run for President in South Carolina back in 2012.  And he went all in, with a PAC and superPAC.  After it was over, he brought in a lawyer to discuss what he could do with the remaining cash... and he was surprised at how few restrictions there were.)