Author Topic: DON'T ASSUME A REPUBLICAN WIN - Moody’s model gives Dem candidate advantage in 2016  (Read 6321 times)

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HAPPY2BME

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The Democratic presidential nominee will win the race for the presidency but the election is shaping up as historically tight, according to a political model.

Less than 11 months from Election Day, Moody’s Analytics is predicting that whomever lands the Democratic nomination will capture the White House with 326 electoral votes to the Republican nominee’s 212.

Those results are heavily dependent on how swing states vote. The latest model from Moody’s reflects razor-thin margins in the five most important swing states — Florida, Ohio, Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/266668-moodys-model-gives-dem-candidate-advantage-in-2016

Offline Jazzhead

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swing states — Florida, Ohio, Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia.

It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio. 
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Offline Bigun

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It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio.

Are you serious?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Carling

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It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio.

A long way to a Dem landslide.  Rubio wouldn't win re-election in Florida this fall, and Kasich is Romney from a different state.  65-70% of GOP primary voters favor one of Trump/Cruz/Carson at this point, and of course the GOPe supporters want to Lucy the ball from Charlie Brown and hand the Dems another win.

My opinions only, of course.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 05:39:23 pm by Carling »
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HAPPY2BME

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It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio.

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Or, it would swing back in the opposite direction from apathetic voters.

Offline Scottftlc

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It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio.

My prediction at the moment (and I waiver a lot) is that you have it half right here. I'm (today) thinking it looks like a Trump/Kasich ticket.
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HAPPY2BME

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Why the GOP should nominate Trump in a brokered convention

The Republican establishment has been punched in the face by Donald Trump (and Ted Cruz). He’s embraced white-identity politics (alienating and scapegoating women and minorities), an association the party wanted to distance itself from, and he’s taken a populist approach to government rather than a traditionally conservative one. The party would like anything other than to be labeled the “party of Trump.”

But if we assume the polls are an accurate indicator of public support (which they may not necessarily be), Republican disenchantment is at a high, and a brokered convention certainly seems a possibility. It is a very plausible scenario that Trump, Cruz and an establishment alternative (Bush, Rubio, Kasich or Christie) may lead the party in July with the three highest delegate shares (with none having enough delegates to secure the nomination outright). In that case, I believe the party should nominate Trump. (I believe they definitely should not and will not nominate Cruz if given the choice.)

But why should the Republican establishment not save face and select an “establishment” candidate if given the opportunity in a brokered convention? Because if the party nominates an establishment alternative, they run the unlikely risk of Donald Trump mounting an independent campaign, but even more so, they run the very real risk of losing to Hillary Clinton and validating the frustrations and the anger of the disenchanted Republicans who are desperate for a party shake-up.

On the other hand, if the party nominates Donald Trump, they will likely be able to consolidate the support of the radical, anti-establishment wing (supporters of Trump and Cruz) with that of the loyal Republicans who would much rather see a Trump presidency than another Clinton one.

For some, party loyalty will have its limits, but believe me, as it becomes more widely accepted as a possibility, we’re sure to see more and more Republicans (especially the donor class) reconciling themselves to the idea of Trump as their nominee, because a Trump nomination really leaves only two possibilities: he wins or he loses.

Speaker Paul Ryan will control the direction of the Republican Party no matter what happens in 2016. Should Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump in the general election, Ryan will get to choose whether to continue the unflinchingly oppositional and uncompromising approach the House has taken toward Barack Obama’s presidency, or (what I tend to believe is more likely) to provide a moderate, conservative reform agenda through compromise. With the latter approach, Ryan will essentially be afforded the opportunity to turn to the anti-establishment wing of his party and say, “Well, you had your chance, and you lost.”

On the other hand, should Trump win (which would be terrifying), Ryan will at least get to choose whether to allow the most radical extremes in his party to fulfill Trump’s every desire, or (what I tend to believe is more likely) to propose a Republican agenda that, while conservative, would be far less extreme than Trump’s outlandish propositions. Sure The Donald’s mouth might not be controllable, but what lands on his desk would be, and President Trump wouldn’t veto Republican legislation. (The tyranny of Trump would effectively be limited to his executive power, which is less dangerous than most people imagine.)

Anything could happen between now and July, but if no candidate wins the nomination outright, Trump maintains a sizable share of support, and if the GOP race comes down to a brokered convention, rather than nominating an establishment candidate, the Republican Party should nominate Donald J. Trump. At least that way, they can either join him in his “winning,” or they can force him and the ideas he espouses out of the party as “losers.”

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2016/01/21/why-the-gop-should-nominate-trump-in-a-brokered-convention/

Offline Jazzhead

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That's an interesting take, Happy2BMe.  Since there's no way, IMO, that Trump can win the general election,  your proposal essentially says that the GOP is in the long run better off purging Trumpism and his white-identity/nativist/xenophobic madness once and for all.   At least none of that crap necessarily repudiates principled conservatism, which a Goldwater-sized defeat for Cruz might do (although Goldwater's defeat paved the way 16 years later to Reagan's victory).

Of course,  as you might guess my preference is to win the election, and instead to nominate a Rubio or Kasich who can cobble together a winning coalition.   I'm more inclined to be pragmatic rather than ideological because Clinton is such a weak candidate,  distrusted and corrupt,  and likely without the ability to get the high turnout of blacks and other minorities that allowed Obama to prevail.   I think we CAN win this year,  provided we don't screw the pooch and nominate someone utterly acceptable to most Americans.   
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Offline truth_seeker

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My prediction at the moment (and I waiver a lot) is that you have it half right here. I'm (today) thinking it looks like a Trump/Kasich ticket.
I have been thinking Trump/Rubio to take the Hispanic sting out of Trumps first entrance to the campaign
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Offline Scottftlc

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I have been thinking Trump/Rubio to take the Hispanic sting out of Trumps first entrance to the campaign

I have as well...the new Florida poll throws me a bit at the moment...if it is at all accurate, it puts in play the possibility of Kasich in Ohio.  But I waiver seemingly by the hour. Rubio is a natural here, but is he needed for that purpose?
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Quote
At least none of that crap necessarily repudiates principled conservatism, which a Goldwater-sized defeat for Cruz might do (although Goldwater's defeat paved the way 16 years later to Reagan's victory).
Not to mention Medicare, Medicaid, Community Action, Head Start, and the largest expansion of entitlements since the New Deal that has further perpetuated addiction to the government dollar we may never wean.
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Offline libertybele

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It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio.

Why is that? 
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline libertybele

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I've looked at a couple of electoral maps and the reality of the matter is that the DEMS right now are projected to be ahead, without the toss up states.

One map shows 237 electoral votes going to the DEMS, 181 going to the GOP and 120 toss up

One map shows 247 electoral votes going to the DEMS, 206 going to the GOP and 85 toss up

https://www.google.com/search?q=2016+electoral+map&tbm=isch&imgil=lxW3uIo57XxG6M%253A%253Bk6hEthNTCsPPjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ffreedomslighthouse.net%25252Felection%25252F2014-2016%25252F2016-presidential-election-electoral-vote-map-polls-projections%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=lxW3uIo57XxG6M%253A%252Ck6hEthNTCsPPjM%252C_&usg=__tV-GYVUA1hlqK93j6PoYsYAC1AM%3D&biw=1152&bih=557&ved=0ahUKEwi48f2dn77KAhUhk4MKHaVFApUQyjcIOQ&ei=FI-iVriXMqGmjgSli4moCQ#imgrc=lxW3uIo57XxG6M%3A
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline Jazzhead

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Why is that?

Presidential elections are won based on state-by-state results in the electoral college.  Kasich/Rubio (or Rubio/Kasich) give the GOP a shot to win perhaps the two most crucial swing states, Florida and Ohio.   Moreover,  neither of these two is associated with extremism or white-identity madness.  With a truly weak candidate on the Democratic side, a conservative alternative that doesn't frighten the average voter will allow the GOP to assemble the moderates and independents necessary to win.   And make no mistake - Rubio and Kasich are each more conservative than either Romney or McCain were.  Kasich was a movement conservative and Reagan revolutionary - surely there are some of us old enough to remember!   
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Presidential elections are won based on state-by-state results in the electoral college.  Kasich/Rubio (or Rubio/Kasich) give the GOP a shot to win perhaps the two most crucial swing states, Florida and Ohio.   Moreover,  neither of these two is associated with extremism or white-identity madness.  With a truly weak candidate on the Democratic side, a conservative alternative that doesn't frighten the average voter will allow the GOP to assemble the moderates and independents necessary to win.   And make no mistake - Rubio and Kasich are each more conservative than either Romney or McCain were.  Kasich was a movement conservative and Reagan revolutionary - surely there are some of us old enough to remember!
Who voted for Medicaid expansion under Obamacare and still stands by that decision, mind you. If one's goal is to reduce the size of the entitlement load this country has built for itself, Kasich is not your guy.

Now, let's talk about Ohio. Ohio is a lot like Pennsylvania, Michigan or Wisconsin. Namely, it's a dying, mostly white, working-class state with a few Democrat cities and lots of Republicans in between. Those Republicans are generally just as conservative as any you will come across anywhere, including the South. A lot of them (or should I say us, since I live in New York and here it's even moreso) feel frustrated by the lack of influence on the direction of the government and it's that very sentiment that drives both Trump's and Cruz's campaigns. Keep in mind, each one of those states has elected Republican governors at least once since 2010 despite their generally consistent shift toward Democrats in Presidential elections. Could this be the year that those voters finally blow their top and flip their states red? We can only hope.
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Offline Sanguine

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It would go a long way if the ticket were Kasich/Rubio.

That's funny, Jazzhead!

Offline Bigun

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I've looked at a couple of electoral maps and the reality of the matter is that the DEMS right now are projected to be ahead, without the toss up states.

One map shows 237 electoral votes going to the DEMS, 181 going to the GOP and 120 toss up

One map shows 247 electoral votes going to the DEMS, 206 going to the GOP and 85 toss up

https://www.google.com/search?q=2016+electoral+map&tbm=isch&imgil=lxW3uIo57XxG6M%253A%253Bk6hEthNTCsPPjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ffreedomslighthouse.net%25252Felection%25252F2014-2016%25252F2016-presidential-election-electoral-vote-map-polls-projections%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=lxW3uIo57XxG6M%253A%252Ck6hEthNTCsPPjM%252C_&usg=__tV-GYVUA1hlqK93j6PoYsYAC1AM%3D&biw=1152&bih=557&ved=0ahUKEwi48f2dn77KAhUhk4MKHaVFApUQyjcIOQ&ei=FI-iVriXMqGmjgSli4moCQ#imgrc=lxW3uIo57XxG6M%3A



That and the fact that there are currently 31 states with Republican governors  will have an effect on it as well!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 09:04:49 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Who voted for Medicaid expansion under Obamacare and still stands by that decision, mind you. If one's goal is to reduce the size of the entitlement load this country has built for itself, Kasich is not your guy.

Now, let's talk about Ohio. Ohio is a lot like Pennsylvania, Michigan or Wisconsin. Namely, it's a dying, mostly white, working-class state with a few Democrat cities and lots of Republicans in between. Those Republicans are generally just as conservative as any you will come across anywhere, including the South. A lot of them (or should I say us, since I live in New York and here it's even moreso) feel frustrated by the lack of influence on the direction of the government and it's that very sentiment that drives both Trump's and Cruz's campaigns. Keep in mind, each one of those states has elected Republican governors at least once since 2010 despite their generally consistent shift toward Democrats in Presidential elections. Could this be the year that those voters finally blow their top and flip their states red? We can only hope.

Kasich didn't "vote for Medicaid expansion".   Not one Republican did so - that's entirely on the Dems.   What Kasich did was what governors are elected to do - serve their constituents, yes, even the poor ones. Yes, I understand that pissed off a lot of conservative ideologues outside Ohio,  who want only to fight Obama and could care less about Ohio's working poor and the astronomical costs imposed on Ohioans when poor folks have no alternative other than to receive treatment in emergency rooms.

     
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Offline Jazzhead

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That's funny, Jazzhead!

Winning doesn't interest you?
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Offline Sanguine

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Winning doesn't interest you?

Depends on how you define winning.

Offline Jazzhead

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Depends on how you define winning.

So you'd rather have Hillary in the White House than Rubio or Kasich?   
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Offline Sanguine

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So you'd rather have Hillary in the White House than Rubio or Kasich?

Quite a leap there. 

I would not consider any of the three as a "win".  Some would be better than others, and some would be completely unacceptable. 

Offline libertybele

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Kasich didn't "vote for Medicaid expansion".   Not one Republican did so - that's entirely on the Dems.   What Kasich did was what governors are elected to do - serve their constituents, yes, even the poor ones. Yes, I understand that pissed off a lot of conservative ideologues outside Ohio,  who want only to fight Obama and could care less about Ohio's working poor and the astronomical costs imposed on Ohioans when poor folks have no alternative other than to receive treatment in emergency rooms.

     

Well, all I can say is Ohio isn't the only state that has suffered under Obama and there are other fine truly conservative governors.  There are a lot of working poor and those that became members of the working poor under Obama.  However, I don't see that compromising one's conservative principles is the answer -- it only adds to the problem.

I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline Carling

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Nothing will fire up the protest vote like a Romney/Ryan ticket, er, Kasich/Rubio!   :thud:
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Offline GAJohnnie

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Sure except it is a garbage in/garbage out model. The current economic statistics have no connection with the real state of the economy. I work in Logistics and NOTHING is  moving. Freight rates are moving downward to 2009 levels. There is NO heat in the current economy outside the fraudulent numbers being pumped out by the Obama regime.

Moody, is basing it predictive model on garbage data.