Ted Cruz mocks FRENZIED rabid tweetstorm from the Trump!!

[Carling]

I was modifying that while you were typing this. He was actually leading several polls by large margins.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html#polls

When?  Certainly not this close to primary season.

2008 GOP polls. 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/2008_republican_presidential_nomination-2741.html#polls

2012  GOP polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/republican_presidential_nomination-1452.html#polls

Paul never once led.

[ABX]

When?  Certainly not this close to primary season.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ron-paul-takes-lead-in-latest-iowa-poll/

Not double digits but pretty close. It was a wide margin for that race and wide compared to the Iowa margins for this race.

[Carling]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ron-paul-takes-lead-in-latest-iowa-poll/

Not double digits but pretty close. It was a wide margin for that race and wide compared to the Iowa margins for this race.

I'm not talking about Iowa.  Iowa is irrelevant other than it weeds out the kids' table.

[EC]

Iowa is relevant in that it is the first hard data point of the primary. From that day on, everything until super Tuesday (or whatever day of the week it is this year) gives (undue) weight to what happened there.

[Carling]

Iowa is relevant in that it is the first hard data point of the primary. From that day on, everything until super Tuesday (or whatever day of the week it is this year) gives (undue) weight to what happened there.

How did the winners of Iowa do in 2008 and 2012?

In terms of picking a candidate it's irrelevant,and I stand by my opinion that it's primary worth is to narrow the field of losers.

[ABX]

The point is that many, many voters are jumping on bandwagons simply because they think it is the winning one, not that it actually matches their values. I was trying to show that the much hyped indicators they are using don't always translate into victory, often just the opposite.

[Carling]

The point is that many, many voters are jumping on bandwagons simply because they think it is the winning one, not that it actually matches their values. I was trying to show that the much hyped indicators they are using don't always translate into victory, often just the opposite.

I'm a Cruz supporter, but I can see that Trump is in this as a real threat.  Hopefully once others drop out, Cruz gets their support and Trump endorses him as the nominee and campaigns for him.

[truth_seeker]

The difference, of course, is that Ron Paul could never crack double-digits in polls, while Trump is the faraway front-runner right now.  Paul appealed to a very narrow type of voter.  His support was always an inch wide and a mile deep and was never going to translate to votes.

Nice to see I am not alone, grasping narrow but deep support--conceptually.

Goldwater, McGovern, could be Cruz as well.

Doesn't swing state Florida have a lot of NY transplants?

[Carling]

Nice to see I am not alone, grasping narrow but deep support--conceptually.

Goldwater, McGovern, could be Cruz as well.

Doesn't swing state Florida have a lot of NY transplants?

Howard Dean also falls into that category.   The parallels between Ron Paul in 2008/2012 and Dean's 2004 are almost exact.

By the way, Cruz won the NYC Straw Poll today.  Republicans in New York don't seem to be bothered by him, and in the general election New York isn't going to any GOP candidate, except maybe Trump.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/01/16/2792934/

Report: Ted Cruz Wins New York City Straw Poll After ‘New York Values’ Comment

[alicewonders]

The point is that many, many voters are jumping on bandwagons simply because they think it is the winning one, not that it actually matches their values. I was trying to show that the much hyped indicators they are using don't always translate into victory, often just the opposite.

Ted Cruz matches my values closer than any other candidate and I would love to see him win. 

However, I very much like Donald Trump as well and I will defend his right to run, to lead in the polls and if he wins - I'm confident we'll be much stronger than we've been with the current leadership. 

We'll see in the next days if either candidate's strategies are working for them. 

One thing I hate like freaking hell is when I see people repeating lies, misleading headlines - etc about a candidate that I believe can actually whoop the other side's ass.

I understand a lot of people are upset this time around, when we thought we had so many good qualified people running and we're ending up with Trump as our front-runner.  I might remind people that Romney was an extremely qualified candidate and it still wasn't the deciding factor in his victory.....because he lost.  Qualifications are great, but not if they don't translate to victory. 

I will be happy to see Cruz or Trump win.

 

[Carling]

One thing I hate like freaking hell is when I see people repeating lies, misleading headlines - etc about a candidate that I believe can actually whoop the other side's ass.

Saying that Trump supports "single-payer healthcare" is literally a lie, and I will continue to call it out when I see it even though I want Cruz as my candidate.

We're not Democrats.  Let's at least be honest in our criticisms of candidates we don't like.

[ABX]

Saying that Trump supports "single-payer healthcare" is literally a lie, and I will continue to call it out when I see it even though I want Cruz as my candidate.

We're not Democrats.  Let's at least be honest in our criticisms of candidates we don't like.

Says your opinion, not Trump's words or examples. I know  you twisted yourself in knots to justify it, but it is Single Payer in the line of the Canadian system, just like Trump described. But keep repeating that often enough...

[Carling]

Says your opinion, not Trump's words or examples. I know  you twisted yourself in knots to justify it, but it is Single Payer in the line of the Canadian system, just like Trump described. But keep repeating that often enough...

You're 100% wrong.  Either you're ignorant, or you're lying.  If you care to actually educate yourself, read this thread where all of the other "Single Payer" liars basically whined to the moderator and ignored the facts.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,177374.msg763788.html#msg763788

[Carling]

We can either go by what a candidate actually says and be adults, or we can be Democrats and lie about positions.  Which side do you choose?

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,177374.msg763935.html#msg763935

Trump was asked on MSNBC’s "Morning Joe" talk show: "Are you for single-payer health care?"

Trump replied: 

"No, but it’s certainly something that in certain countries works. It actually works incredibly well in Scotland. Some people think it really works in Canada. But not here, I don’t think it would work as well here. What has to happen -- I like the concept of private enterprise coming in ….You have to create competition. And you have to go back to a system of private."

"What I’d like to see is a private system without the artificial lines around every state …..Get rid of the artificial lines and you will have yourself great plans.  I have a big company with thousands and thousands of employees. And if I'm negotiating in New York or in New Jersey or in California, I have like one bidder. Nobody can bid.  Get rid of the artificial lines and you will have yourself great plans.  And then we have to take care of the people that can’t take care of themselves. And I will do that through a different system."

[alicewonders]

Says your opinion, not Trump's words or examples. I know  you twisted yourself in knots to justify it, but it is Single Payer in the line of the Canadian system, just like Trump described. But keep repeating that often enough...

Keep saying it, doesn't make it true - but you won't go to the thread that proves it to see for yourself.

[ABX]

..and yet, after he threw that little cat toy out for the audience, he went back to repeating that he supports the Canadian system.
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/08/20/trump-reiterates-support-single-payer

That is the one system he has been the most consistant in supporting. What you posted above was out of his normal line and most likely just given for the audience. He has always been one to change whatever he says to fit the audience, that's why you look at the most consistent.

[Carling]

Says your opinion, not Trump's words or examples. I know  you twisted yourself in knots to justify it, but it is Single Payer in the line of the Canadian system, just like Trump described. But keep repeating that often enough...

I just posted words from Trump where he states he wants a more open and competitive private system, while still having those who can't afford insurance on MediCaid.

Nothing in his words say anything about him advocating a government-run Single-Payer system. Zero.  Zilch.  Nada. 

Are you going to own this mistake of yours, or are you going to continue to lie when the words are right in front of your face?

[Carling]

..and yet, after he threw that little cat toy out for the audience, he went back to repeating that he supports the Canadian system.
http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/08/20/trump-reiterates-support-single-payer

That is the one system he has been the most consistant in supporting. What you posted above was out of his normal line and most likely just given for the audience. He has always been one to change whatever he says to fit the audience, that's why you look at the most consistent.

Nowhere in your link does it say Trump supports single-payer.  The part quoted doesn't include how Trump said it will not work in the USA, and how he wants more private competition.  This is exactly how sinkspur got banned from here, by continuing to post lies and half-truths.

These are the facts.  If you want to ignore them and continue to lie, then it diminishes this board and says you don't respect your fellow posters enough to actual deal in and debate the truth.

At this point I have to think that you're a dishonest person who is not at all interested in debating as an adult.

[Mod1]

Adults do not have to shout. Settle down, everyone.

[Carling]

From AbaraXas own link which he claims Trump supports single-payer and will try to implement it.   

While noting Trump has repeatedly recognized the importance of competitive insurance and providers as part of the U.S. health care system, Clemens says Trump  “seems oblivious to the reality of Canadian health care, wherein private providers are limited and competitive insurance is prohibited.”

[katzenjammer]

Keep saying it, doesn't make it true - but you won't go to the thread that proves it to see for yourself.

I like that cat!

He/she has that look of wisdom and intelligence that almost all cats do!!

[alicewonders]

I like that cat!

He/she has that look of wisdom and intelligence that almost all cats do!!

 

[Carling]

More from AbraXas' link that supposedly proves Trump is for single-payer.   

Trump garners support among experts favoring a free-market approach toward health care with his statements about consumers and businesses being able to cross state lines to purchase insurance.

However, without moving toward a market-based system, that proposal may be largely moot, says Clemens.

“Such reforms are insufficient unless state-based mandates, tort reform, and the discriminatory treatment of employer-based benefits are also changed,” Clemens said.

[Carling]

Adults do not have to shout. Settle down, everyone.

I'm making sure everyone can read it.  If that is "shouting" when responding to lies, so be it. 

Are you going to admonish the posters who clearly are posting lies about GOP candidates?

[musiclady]

Says your opinion, not Trump's words or examples. I know  you twisted yourself in knots to justify it, but it is Single Payer in the line of the Canadian system, just like Trump described. But keep repeating that often enough...

Precisely. If Trump truly doesn't support single payer, as he has said more than once, it is HE who is the liar.

But to the point here................ accusing those who disagree with a politician on a political forum as being liars is completely below the belt, and IMO, pretty pathetic.

Neither you nor I are liars, and the poster accusing us so emotionally, knows it.

I find such behavior sad........