Ann Coulter Shocks With Single Tweet As Nikki Haley Delivers GOP SOTU Response

[Jazzhead]

Try this on for size!

http://www.fairtax.org

Be sure to click on the research link!

Putting aside the matter of tariffs for a moment,  I prefer a Steve Forbe-style flat (or flatter) income tax to a European-style VAT, which is essentially what the fair tax is.  Taxes on consumption burden the poor, unless coupled with a mechanism to provide a tax credit which complicates administration and requires the retention of a tax burearacracy just as we have now with the IRS.  I also worry about the fact that most states now tax consumption,  and the combined impact of state and federal consumption taxes could cause the prices of the things we all need to buy in order to live to jump by 50% or more.   

To be sure,  a fair tax is better than the ridiculously complicated tax code we now have,  but the better and fairer approach, IMO,  is to retain the federal income tax but broaden the base and flatten the rates.     

[Bigun]

Putting aside the matter of tariffs for a moment,  I prefer a Steve Forbe-style flat (or flatter) income tax to a European-style VAT, which is essentially what the fair tax is.  Taxes on consumption burden the poor, unless coupled with a mechanism to provide a tax credit which complicates administration and requires the retention of a tax burearacracy just as we have now with the IRS.  I also worry about the fact that most states now tax consumption,  and the combined impact of state and federal consumption taxes could cause the prices of the things we all need to buy in order to live to jump by 50% or more.   

To be sure,  a fair tax is better than the ridiculously complicated tax code we now have,  but the better and fairer approach, IMO,  is to retain the federal income tax but broaden the base and flatten the rates.     

The fairtax is NOT a VAT in any shape form or factor! (The current corporate income tax is in practice a subtraction method VAT!)  And you are flatly WRONG in asserting that the fairtax would unduly burden the poor! In fact it is the ONLY thing currently on the table that would COMPLETELY untax them!

The fairtax is a sales tax on the RETAIL purchase 0f NEW goods and services only.  NOT a VAT!

[EdinVA]

To be sure,  a fair tax is better than the ridiculously complicated tax code we now have,  but the better and fairer approach, IMO,  is to retain the federal income tax but broaden the base and flatten the rates.     

To much incentive for the politicians to engage in social engineering with the income tax system.. We have had enough of that..

[Jazzhead]

To much incentive for the politicians to engage in social engineering with the income tax system.. We have had enough of that..

That's why I recommend a flatter tax with a broader base (and fewer deductions).  As practical matter,  I think a GOP President and GOP Congressional majority can accomplish that.  Ripping out the income tax and replacing it with a national consumption is too radical a change - it's just not going to happen. 

Politics is the art of the possible, let's not forget.   

[Bigun]

That's why I recommend a flatter tax with a broader base (and fewer deductions).  As practical matter,  I think a GOP President and GOP Congressional majority can accomplish that.  Ripping out the income tax and replacing it with a national consumption is too radical a change - it's just not going to happen. 

Politics is the art of the possible, let's not forget.

NO form of income tax will work! All, of necessity, must retain the IRS and that is unacceptable!

[Jazzhead]

The fairtax is NOT a VAT in any shape form or factor! (The current corporate income tax is in practice a subtraction method VAT!)  And you are flatly WRONG in asserting that the fairtax would unduly burden the poor! In fact it is the ONLY thing currently on the table that would COMPLETELY untax them!

The fairtax is a sales tax on the RETAIL purchase 0f NEW goods and services only.  NOT a VAT!

Sales taxes are notoriously regressive,  and place far more burden on the poor than the rich.   

[Jazzhead]

NO form of income tax will work! All, of necessity, must retain the IRS and that is unacceptable!

Dream on.  A fair tax is a non-starter politically.   A flatter, broader income tax is achievable.   

[Bigun]

Sales taxes are notoriously regressive,  and place far more burden on the poor than the rich.

The fairtax doesn't!  It completely untaxes the poor!

[Bigun]

Dream on.  A fair tax is a non-starter politically.   A flatter, broader income tax is achievable.

So YOU say!  I happen to disagree with you! In fact, I will go so far as to say that we will never again be a truly FREE people for so long as we continue to abide the Marxist income tax and the IRS!

[Mod1]

what I'd do if I were pope of this dump.

If you're calling this site a dump, perhaps you should reconsider your membership here.

[katzenjammer]

Conservatism is about preserving the good parts of the status quo. Businesses employee citizens. You can bet that liberals and democrats are going to be out to regulate and tax businesses at every chance. Make life difficult for the business, which in turn potentially harms the employees, too.

If a local business wants to expand, needs access to local government for zoning, signs, roads, parking, etc. an entity like the C of C is there for them.

Strength in numbers by grouping several local businesses gives them political strength, and negotiating power.

Donald Trump didn't get where he is, by not understanding how businesses, large and small, operate.

Example: A property owner just outside an incorporated town, wants to sell. He has a buyer lined up, but the buyer would prefer to be located inside the incorporated town limits.

What to do? Maybe approach the town's Chamber of Commerce for a discussion of how this could be mutually beneficial. Sit down with the city reps, too, same agenda.

There is nothing conspiratorial, sinister, crooked about doing things like this. How else do you think things "get done," anyway?

Yes, there you have it.  A very good example of how the local Chamber of Commerce organizations can serve a very useful and helpful role for businesses and society.  As in my prior post, I think that there is a lot of confusion between the local Chambers and the National entity.

[HAPPY2BME]

So YOU say!  I happen to disagree with you! In fact, I will go so far as to say that we will never again be a truly FREE people for so long as we continue to abide the Marxist income tax and the IRS!

Not One Of These Taxes Existed 100 Years Ago

[Jazzhead]

If you're calling this site a dump, perhaps you should reconsider your membership here.

NO!  That's not what I was saying!    I was trying to be humorous in expressing what I'd do if I were President of the U.S.  - not this site!   (The phrase "pope of this dump" is a line by Rodney Dangerfield from Caddyshack - I'm sure more than a few here will recall it.) 

Just trying to lighten the mood, not to offend!   

[Sanguine]

So YOU say!  I happen to disagree with you! In fact, I will go so far as to say that we will never again be a truly FREE people for so long as we continue to abide the Marxist income tax and the IRS!

I agree.  Is there a reason the government needs to know how much we make and from where?

[alicewonders]

Quote from Jazzhead:

what I'd do if I were pope of this dump.

If you're calling this site a dump, perhaps you should reconsider your membership here.

Me thinks his Freudian slips have been showing lately. 

Seeing as how Jazzhead is constantly pushing the Third Party Meme lately - and seeing as how this site is "GOP Briefing Room" - he might very well be in a place where his message isn't going to be very well received.  Most of us have stated that we will vote for whoever the nominee is, even if it is someone we don't like.

I'm sure there are some third party forums out there where your message might be better received.  Seems to be raising a lot of discord here - because we KNOW a third party vote is basically a vote for the Democrat nominee. 

[katzenjammer]

I agree.  Is there a reason the government needs to know how much we make and from where?

Nope, not a one valid reason, none at all.  (But if you are interested in control, intimidation, social engineering...  then it makes complete sense!)

[Carling]

WE ARE OUTRAGED AND STUPID AND WE AIN'T GOING AWAY UNTIL WE DESTROY THE GOP!!!

The same voters that put Nikki Haley into office were the people she spit on in the SOTU response.

I consider it more taking back the GOP, and I don't think those wanting to do so with me are stupid.

[truth_seeker]

Yes, there you have it.  A very good example of how the local Chamber of Commerce organizations can serve a very useful and helpful role for businesses and society.  As in my prior post, I think that there is a lot of confusion between the local Chambers and the National entity.

I have been  consistent conservative for over 40 years. I came to see the light when Reagan was on the stage in the mid 70s, and I was starting up the career ladder in business. Reagan style conservatism was about lower taxes for business and individuals, protecting personal and national freedom, making government more responsive to society's real needs, cutting back regulations, et.

Then and now the C of C was an integral component of looking out for businesses, since the left-unions have unions.

For people that claim to be "conservative" to come along and bad mouth the C of C, has been a difficult concept for me to understand.

It seems to come from an element that wants to "tear it all down." I do not know who they are. I do not meet people sounding like that in my daily business or personal life. I look at my own community of 200,000 with a very conservative House rep. Almost all businesses large and small are members of the Chamber.

I have followed local politics.  I have served as treasurer for a PAC.  "Burn it all down" is not a viable realistic approach. If that is a movement, they do not elect officials. They throw rocks and scream.

My very conservative House rep. does NOT belong to the Tea Party or the Freedom Caucus. He was conservative LONG before these latter day rock throwers came along.

I will vote for the eventual Republican nominee. But I will NOT go silent about what seems a lot like disruption on this site.

Disruptors pose as conservatives. They want to push the GOP so far to the extreme, that it is not viable for them to win. After 2012 it was determined that FR had many such operatives. Nothing was admitted by ownership, lest their failure be admitted.

Be very wary of the loud new voices here, pushing so hard for the very extremes. One such individual openly said he would vote for Hillary if Trump did not get the GOP nomination.

I wonder if the ALL CAPS screaming might be a technique they are trained to use, to gain attention, during their DNC lessons?
 

[mountaineer]

For people that claim to be "conservative" to come along and bad mouth the C of C, has been a difficult concept for me to understand.

I agree, for the most part. The CofC mostly represents small businesses which, in my state, are the heart and soul of the economy. Unfortunately, when it comes to lobbying, the CofC sometimes pushes for government largesse when it should be arguing for "hands off." A conservative should want its elected officials, whether local, state or federal, to just get the heck out of the way of those (other than the federal government) who employ people.

[katzenjammer]

I have been  consistent conservative for over 40 years. I came to see the light when Reagan was on the stage in the mid 70s, and I was starting up the career ladder in business. Reagan style conservatism was about lower taxes for business and individuals, protecting personal and national freedom, making government more responsive to society's real needs, cutting back regulations, et.

Then and now the C of C was an integral component of looking out for businesses, since the left-unions have unions.

For people that claim to be "conservative" to come along and bad mouth the C of C, has been a difficult concept for me to understand.

It seems to come from an element that wants to "tear it all down." I do not know who they are. I do not meet people sounding like that in my daily business or personal life. I look at my own community of 200,000 with a very conservative House rep. Almost all businesses large and small are members of the Chamber.

I have followed local politics.  I have served as treasurer for a PAC.  "Burn it all down" is not a viable realistic approach. If that is a movement, they do not elect officials. They throw rocks and scream.

My very conservative House rep. does NOT belong to the Tea Party or the Freedom Caucus. He was conservative LONG before these latter day rock throwers came along.

I will vote for the eventual Republican nominee. But I will NOT go silent about what seems a lot like disruption on this site.

Disruptors pose as conservatives. They want to push the GOP so far to the extreme, that it is not viable for them to win. After 2012 it was determined that FR had many such operatives. Nothing was admitted by ownership, lest their failure be admitted.

Be very wary of the loud new voices here, pushing so hard for the very extremes. One such individual openly said he would vote for Hillary if Trump did not get the GOP nomination.

I wonder if the ALL CAPS screaming might be a technique they are trained to use, to gain attention, during their DNC lessons?

The problem is that the National CoC under Donohue has been pushing a very harmful agenda.  I believe that that is what most folks object to, not the very beneficial functions of the local Chambers.  It just gets confusing because of the impreciseness of language, especially on Internet forums.

Rohrabacher is smart to not be a member of these House forums.  They don't really provide much of substance and just fool a lot of people about the intents of the members.

I don't know about disruptors, it has always been my view that the place is too small for anyone to bother mounting a serious disruption effort, paid or otherwise.  I think that some people are just a bit "trollish" by nature.  But what do I know??   

[Scottftlc]

I think I am the one that started the whole thing on the Chamber of Commerce.  This is not "disruption".  I simply stated that I didn't like the aspect of politics in this country that related to "buying" politicians and "buying" influence.  Left or right.  I feel it has become so severe that it has perverted our form of government.  And, yes, I was thinking of the national chamber in the quick flash comment I made...and no, I didn't that through any more than that.  I still think this kind of activity has been taken to such extremes that it is the rule in our government - a rule with "the establishment."  And that perverts our government.  So yeah, there is a part of "tear it all down" in there somewhere because what has been built is now unrecognizable from what once was a Republic.  I don't like unions either - but all that's happening is the same game is being played by people making themselves rich off of the game...and out in the rest of the country, people are struggling with a perverted economy and society because of that game.

So this was me just being philosophical, with no intention at disruption or trolling or anything else.  I don't HAVE the answer to it either.  But I know for certain that we are heading the wrong way now.

[katzenjammer]

I think I am the one that started the whole thing on the Chamber of Commerce.  This is not "disruption".  I simply stated that I didn't like the aspect of politics in this country that related to "buying" politicians and "buying" influence.  Left or right.  I feel it has become so severe that it has perverted our form of government.  And, yes, I was thinking of the national chamber in the quick flash comment I made...and no, I didn't that through any more than that.  I still think this kind of activity has been taken to such extremes that it is the rule in our government - a rule with "the establishment."  And that perverts our government.  So yeah, there is a part of "tear it all down" in there somewhere because what has been built is now unrecognizable from what once was a Republic.  I don't like unions either - but all that's happening is the same game is being played by people making themselves rich off of the game...and out in the rest of the country, people are struggling with a perverted economy and society because of that game.

So this was me just being philosophical, with no intention at disruption or trolling or anything else.  I don't HAVE the answer to it either.  But I know for certain that we are heading the wrong way now.

No way, Scott.  You didn't start the whole Chamber of Commerce disputes, they've been going on here and elsewhere for a long time. You may have mentioned it recently, but that wasn't the first time.  I answered a rather long post without breaking it up into parts (I get lazy at times), and none of my comments about the "disruptors" were focused on the CoC discussion.  I apologize to you if my post implied in any way that you are a "disruptor" of any sorts.  Far, far from it!   

[aligncare]

Nope, not a one valid reason, none at all.  (But if you are interested in control, intimidation, social engineering...  then it makes complete sense!)

Yep, approved thinking and required behavior government likes. It takes a village idiot.

Bigun is absolutely correct in characterizing the IRS as marxist--that's how they get us to jump through the hoops, behave certain ways, buy certain things. It's all in the trillion page tax code.

[truth_seeker]

I think I am the one that started the whole thing on the Chamber of Commerce.  This is not "disruption".  I simply stated that I didn't like the aspect of politics in this country that related to "buying" politicians and "buying" influence.  Left or right.  I feel it has become so severe that it has perverted our form of government.  And, yes, I was thinking of the national chamber in the quick flash comment I made...and no, I didn't that through any more than that.  I still think this kind of activity has been taken to such extremes that it is the rule in our government - a rule with "the establishment."  And that perverts our government.  So yeah, there is a part of "tear it all down" in there somewhere because what has been built is now unrecognizable from what once was a Republic.  I don't like unions either - but all that's happening is the same game is being played by people making themselves rich off of the game...and out in the rest of the country, people are struggling with a perverted economy and society because of that game.

So this was me just being philosophical, with no intention at disruption or trolling or anything else.  I don't HAVE the answer to it either.  But I know for certain that we are heading the wrong way now.

Simply stated, then:

Labor, leftists, democrats had and continue to have labor unions. They also establish institutional access to government at all levels, to argue their side.

The C of C is one tool of business, Republicans to represent the opposing viewpoints.

If anybody thinks tearing down a tool on our side will work, or think the left will give up on unions, they are misguided, possibly naïve too.

[Jazzhead]

The same voters that put Nikki Haley into office were the people she spit on in the SOTU response.

I consider it more taking back the GOP, and I don't think those wanting to do so with me are stupid.

She didn't spit on anyone.  She urged folks to step back, calm down, and exercise common sense.

Anger and rationality don't mix.   If Trump gets the nomination, he'll lose the general election, and then it's another four years of Dem control.  Hillary would likely make two, three or more appointments to the SCOTUS,  changing it forever (or at least for this old man's lifetime).   And the GOP will likely lose the Senate, and that essential check on Democrat perfidy.

Use your heads folks!   Supporting Trump is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.