Bill Clinton will crush Donald Trump — with a smile

[musiclady]

“It is necessary for every American, with becoming energy to endeavor to stop the dissemination of principles evidently destructive of the cause for which they have bled. It must be the combined virtue of the rulers and of the people to do this, and to rescue and save their civil and religious rights from the outstretched arm of tyranny, which may appear under any mode or form of government.”

 
Mercy Warren, History of the Rise, Progress, and Termination of the American Revolution, 1805

1805.  Archaic.  Doesn't matter any more.  Everything's different now.   

[katzenjammer]

But God never, ever says the sin doesn't matter.   If you use Biblical examples of God's using sinful people to lead, you can't ignore the repentance of those leaders, or the negative consequences their sins had on them.

IOW, you can't compare David with Donald and conclude that integrity doesn't matter.....

I never said, nor implied, anything of the sort.  Merely offered up an example in response to Alice's musings.

[Bigun]

1805.  Archaic.  Doesn't matter any more.  Everything's different now.

I suppose so! To our sorrow! They were all precedent!

"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed upon your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers, 'just men who will rule in the fear of God.' The preservation of government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty; if the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded. If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws." 

History of United States by Noah Webster.

[andy58-in-nh]

I guess only dinosaurs like us still care about virtue................

I think people recognize and appreciate virtue where it is in evidence. But we have also grown cynical, owing to our civic culture and perhaps, our own diminished expectations.

[musiclady]

I never said, nor implied, anything of the sort.  Merely offered up an example in response to Alice's musings.

That had been done previously.

The entire point of many here was that it didn't matter if Trump cheated on his wife, and that it wasn't relevant to the discussion of his qualifications to be President.

I consistently have posited that integrity is an important factor in leadership.

I still maintain that it is.

[musiclady]

I think people recognize and appreciate virtue where it is in evidence. But we have also grown cynical, owing to our civic culture and perhaps, our own diminished expectations.

I think that is obvious during this election cycle.  I continue seeing the argument that 'things are different now'  and I wonder how we can so easily discard basic principles of decency and honor as we apparently are being told to do.

How does the badness, if you will, of the GOPe somehow make long held values obsolete?  How can we throw away what has always been important in looking for leadership, and say somehow that because Donald Trump is giving the establishment a hard time, we should overlook the myriad of character flaws he has?

These are troubling times when honor in a leader no longer matters to people whose own integrity is unquestioned.