Author Topic: Who won last nights debate?  (Read 3053 times)

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PaleoConPrep

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Who won last nights debate?
« on: December 16, 2015, 04:16:22 pm »
Here's how I'd rank ( from best to worst in last nights debate) 
1. Rand Paul ( He did very well. If you look at the post-debate polls on who won, Rand is right behind Trump. I suspect his poll numbers will rise)
2. Ted Cruz( did well as usual)
3. Donald Trump( Not bad. I loved it when he mocked Bushs poll numbers)
4. Dr. Ben Carson( he was OK)
The rest should drop out. I'm so sick of Rubio, Bush, Kasich, and Fiorina.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 04:26:31 pm »
With all due respect, Rand Paul is an isolationist and is dead in this primary.

Cruz did very well as did Rubio.
Trump was Trump.  Belligerent and wrong on facts
Carson's toast.
Bush is done too but I loved how he got under Trump's thin skin.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

PaleoConPrep

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 04:36:13 pm »
Paul is not an isolationist and is far from done. Paul is a non-interventionist( as am I)   Stop listening to NeoCon propaganda. Rubio is a joke. He would be better off  running as a Lib.

Online Bigun

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015, 04:38:56 pm »
Paul is not an isolationist and is far from done. Paul is a non-interventionist( as am I)   Stop listening to NeoCon propaganda. Rubio is a joke. He would be better off  running as a Lib.

He (Paul) will likely suspend his campaign very soon!

« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 04:39:22 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 04:40:42 pm »
Paul is not an isolationist and is far from done. Paul is a non-interventionist( as am I)   Stop listening to NeoCon propaganda. Rubio is a joke. He would be better off  running as a Lib.

Well, good luck with Rand Paul. He's very much done and will, as Bigun said, likely have to drop out soon.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 04:53:41 pm »
Ted Cruz was great!  Trump was Trump but I thought he did well in responding to Bush. Bush I felt did better than in past debates, but he just lacks in coming across sincere and his attacks against Trump made him seem almost childish.  Rubio was pretty blah and his attacks IMHO made him look desperate.  Paul had a decent night, but I'm afraid a little too late.  Fiorina continues to spew the same talking points and she comes across much too much rehearsed.  Christie seemed a little off to me. Carson, well, he didn't do himself any favors last night; he kind of seems caught up in a resume type fashioned debate listing how his experience as a surgeon is relevant; it isn't.  Kasich as usual tries to place himself upon a pedestal and what is with all the hand gestures?  He looked like a demented windmill.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 04:56:14 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

PaleoConPrep

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 04:58:21 pm »
I agree when you guys say Paul has almost no chance for POTUS. I think he has a serious shot at  being Cruzs VP.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 04:58:30 pm »
 
I don't like Cruz's emphasis on encryption as a problem... he clearly wants the gov't to have a back-door key to all encrypted messages...

Goodbye 4th Amendment...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Online Bigun

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 05:00:15 pm »

I don't like Cruz's emphasis on encryption as a problem... he clearly wants the gov't to have a back-door key to all encrypted messages...

Goodbye 4th Amendment...

I'm not so sure about that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline libertybele

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 05:05:08 pm »
I agree when you guys say Paul has almost no chance for POTUS. I think he has a serious shot at  being Cruzs VP.


I doubt that one. Paul has been struggling in the polls for quite awhile indicating that he has no draw and no appeal.  Cruz needs someone who is going to help push him get over the top and I just don't see Paul as being that person.  I like Rand, but I think he will remain in the Senate.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

PaleoConPrep

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 05:08:44 pm »
Mike Lee would be the absolute best choice for Cruz VP. If Paul were VP, he could help get the Libertarian vote which is good.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 05:11:02 pm »

I don't like Cruz's emphasis on encryption as a problem... he clearly wants the gov't to have a back-door key to all encrypted messages...

Goodbye 4th Amendment...

That was Fiorina's big thing too....

The question is, do we continue to allow the "bad guys" to beat us by using our laws/constitution/tolerance against us?

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 05:11:56 pm »

I don't like Cruz's emphasis on encryption as a problem... he clearly wants the gov't to have a back-door key to all encrypted messages...

Goodbye 4th Amendment...

He is not alone on that front.  It is a symptom of a larger problem.

I said it a week or so ago, and I will repeat it again.

If the federal gubmint had focused on staying within the confines of the Constitution (doing ONLY what is mandated, and doing it WELL) for the past 100+ years, we would not find ourselves in the predicament where it seems that we can no longer abide by these limits, especially with respect to the Bill of Rights.

Online Bigun

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2015, 05:14:57 pm »

I said it a week or so ago, and I will repeat it again.

If the federal gubmint had focused on staying within the confines of the Constitution (doing ONLY what is mandated, and doing it WELL) for the past 100+ years, we would not find ourselves in the predicament where it seems that we can no longer abide by these limits, especially with respect to the Bill of Rights.

Can't argue with that!

(MAN am I glad you decided to come back and post here!)
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2015, 05:21:24 pm »
He is not alone on that front.  It is a symptom of a larger problem.

I said it a week or so ago, and I will repeat it again.

If the federal gubmint had focused on staying within the confines of the Constitution (doing ONLY what is mandated, and doing it WELL) for the past 100+ years, we would not find ourselves in the predicament where it seems that we can no longer abide by these limits, especially with respect to the Bill of Rights.

I am confused Katz...
Are you saying that the gov should not be cleaning up the mess that the big companies are making, i.e. soil and water pollution/Love Canal/super fund sites?
Are you saying that there should be no internet, as that was a government effort?
How about the interstate highway system?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 05:25:32 pm »
My rankings:

1. Ted Cruz
2. Rand Paul
3. Donald Trump
4. Rubio
5. Dr. Ben Carson/Christie

"The rest should drop out. I'm so sick of Rubio, Bush, Kasich, and Fiorina."  Agreed, and I would add that Christie is just taking up oxygen at this point.  I did think that Rubio out-debated Dr. Carson. (Such a nice man, just not ready for prime time).

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 05:50:13 pm »
I am confused Katz...
Are you saying that the gov should not be cleaning up the mess that the big companies are making, i.e. soil and water pollution/Love Canal/super fund sites?
Are you saying that there should be no internet, as that was a government effort?
How about the interstate highway system?

Sorry to be confusing with that.  (I was attempting to be very terse for a reason.)  What I mean is that if the federal gubmint stayed within the confines of the Constitution, and did those things well, we wouldn't find ourselves in many of the situations we are now thrashing in.  Using the 4th amendment discussion as a case in point, we find a large number of people that are well versed in the Constitution, considering ways to counter our basic liberties for the purpose of "safety."

Specifically in this case, had the federal gubmint performed (what some would argue as its primary duty as being part of a strong national defense) its duty in maintaining a SECURE border (and an immigration system focused on the needs of this nation), then the country would not be overrun with all types of subversives and evil doers.  Additionally, had the gubmint not been corrupted into allowing Communists to settle in and fester discord within this country for many decades, a similar benefit would have accrued.  (And further, we are now seeing the islamists doing the same in a contemporary parallel.)

Had that been the case, then we would not find many of our leaders arguing in support of the need for these large "safety traps" which must, by their nature, infringe on the Constitutional rights of ALL citizens.

Quote
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
-- Benjamin Franklin



(As far as your other examples/questions, I will be brief.  I am a bit of a libertarian in that I believe that we are best served by allowing the free market to perform many of the societal 'police' functions that we've ceded to gubmint.  In some cases the free market forces may not be as swift, but their effects far more long lasting.  About the public Internet, I was there for that (and I never saw Al Gore once!), built out some of the initial commercial foundations stemming from the DARPA project.  It was nothing but a nascent asynchronous multi-layered comms model (which in and of itself was (and still is!) quite stunning in its simplicity); it wasn't until the free market and commercial interests stepped into the game that it became the marvelous set of tools that we all use to have fun here today!!)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 05:58:28 pm by katzenjammer »

Online Bigun

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 06:03:11 pm »
I am confused Katz...
Are you saying that the gov should not be cleaning up the mess that the big companies are making, i.e. soil and water pollution/Love Canal/super fund sites?
Are you saying that there should be no internet, as that was a government effort?
How about the interstate highway system?

Now that Katz has given you his answer I will jump in and give you mine.

Quote
Are you saying that the gov should not be cleaning up the mess that the big companies are making, i.e. soil and water pollution/Love Canal/super fund sites?

They should do that ONLY if and when those responsible cannot be determined or found! Even then such efforts should be founded on actual SCIENCE and not PC bull feathers.

Quote
Are you saying that there should be no internet, as that was a government effort?

Nope! Not at all and the internet is a prime example of what happens when the government cooperates fully with the private sector and free markets!

Quote
How about the interstate highway system?

Not at all! Completely constitutional!


"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 06:44:49 pm »
Sorry to be confusing with that.  (I was attempting to be very terse for a reason.)  What I mean is that if the federal gubmint stayed within the confines of the Constitution, and did those things well, we wouldn't find ourselves in many of the situations we are now thrashing in.  Using the 4th amendment discussion as a case in point, we find a large number of people that are well versed in the Constitution, considering ways to counter our basic liberties for the purpose of "safety."

Specifically in this case, had the federal gubmint performed (what some would argue as its primary duty as being part of a strong national defense) its duty in maintaining a SECURE border (and an immigration system focused on the needs of this nation), then the country would not be overrun with all types of subversives and evil doers.  Additionally, had the gubmint not been corrupted into allowing Communists to settle in and fester discord within this country for many decades, a similar benefit would have accrued.  (And further, we are now seeing the islamists doing the same in a contemporary parallel.)

Had that been the case, then we would not find many of our leaders arguing in support of the need for these large "safety traps" which must, by their nature, infringe on the Constitutional rights of ALL citizens.
-- Benjamin Franklin



(As far as your other examples/questions, I will be brief.  I am a bit of a libertarian in that I believe that we are best served by allowing the free market to perform many of the societal 'police' functions that we've ceded to gubmint.  In some cases the free market forces may not be as swift, but their effects far more long lasting.  About the public Internet, I was there for that (and I never saw Al Gore once!), built out some of the initial commercial foundations stemming from the DARPA project.  It was nothing but a nascent asynchronous multi-layered comms model (which in and of itself was (and still is!) quite stunning in its simplicity); it wasn't until the free market and commercial interests stepped into the game that it became the marvelous set of tools that we all use to have fun here today!!)

Ah, got it... Agreed...

The snag is, we are where we are.... we can shoulda/coulda all day but that won't get it done.
So how do we right the ship without violating the constitution?
Can we?
Does the constitution trump (no pun intended) National Security?

I don't know, I am throwing this out to see what other think..

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Who won last nights debate?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 08:22:16 pm »
Ah, got it... Agreed...

The snag is, we are where we are.... we can shoulda/coulda all day but that won't get it done.
So how do we right the ship without violating the constitution?
Can we?
Does the constitution trump (no pun intended) National Security?

I don't know, I am throwing this out to see what other think..

I don't know (for sure), either.

If you force me to venture a guess, no, we don't right this ship.  Not without some sort of extraordinary event(s) taking place, soon.

Absent that, we will continue the slide into an ever hardening tyranny, one little slip downward at a time.

None of this has happened by accident.  And those responsible will not go quietly into the night.