Author Topic: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP  (Read 3826 times)

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Offline Relic

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2015, 07:59:03 pm »
I believe the party realizes this fully. Carson is correct and the party has to see that the majority of its voters are firmly in the outsider camp. They cannot discard those voters, they know this, and they cannot co-opt them again, they know that too.  What is far more likely to happen is that the party will make peace with the outsiders - break bread and come to an accommodation.  Parties that are successful catch the wave with the mood of the day. The outsiders are the mood of the day - the party will catch that rather than crash and burn.  They don't want to blow up, because none of them will survive the crash either.

I caught just a little bit of Rush Limbaugh today. What he said makes sense. The GOP is sick of us, they want a new voter base. A voter base that is much more with the times, that is to say, a voter base that matches the GOP's Democrat-lite desires.

Pseudo conservative Kathleen Parker has been out saying the GOP is prepared to lose. They will spend some time in the wilderness to get rid of us.

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2015, 08:24:54 pm »
I caught just a little bit of Rush Limbaugh today. What he said makes sense. The GOP is sick of us, they want a new voter base. A voter base that is much more with the times, that is to say, a voter base that matches the GOP's Democrat-lite desires.

Pseudo conservative Kathleen Parker has been out saying the GOP is prepared to lose. They will spend some time in the wilderness to get rid of us.

When the Whigs did that, not accepting the majority of abolitionists in their party, they disappeared entirely. The Republicans face that prospect if they attempt to reject the movement of a majority of their voters. I don't think they will take that risk. The Bush wing is not well positioned to take voters from the Democrats.  I really think accommodation is the path they will take - finding a meeting ground between the establishment and the outsiders.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2015, 09:25:13 pm »
I caught just a little bit of Rush Limbaugh today. What he said makes sense. The GOP is sick of us, they want a new voter base. A voter base that is much more with the times, that is to say, a voter base that matches the GOP's Democrat-lite desires.

Pseudo conservative Kathleen Parker has been out saying the GOP is prepared to lose. They will spend some time in the wilderness to get rid of us.
Who do they think will be their new voter base?  Nobody who is a dem voter would ever vote for them. They they have a R next to their name.


Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2015, 09:26:55 pm »
When the Whigs did that, not accepting the majority of abolitionists in their party, they disappeared entirely. The Republicans face that prospect if they attempt to reject the movement of a majority of their voters. I don't think they will take that risk. The Bush wing is not well positioned to take voters from the Democrats.  I really think accommodation is the path they will take - finding a meeting ground between the establishment and the outsiders.

Why did Reagan pick GHW Bush for VP? He picked him, in order to win, that is why. (And because he was qualified and competent of course)

An accommodation.

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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2015, 09:33:49 pm »
I really think accommodation is the path they will take - finding a meeting ground between the establishment and the outsiders.

That is going to be some tough ground to find... so much distrust...
I just cannot imagine the party of bush coming around to support Cruz or Trump...

Offline flowers

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2015, 09:36:06 pm »
That is going to be some tough ground to find... so much distrust...
I just cannot imagine the party of bush coming around to support Cruz or Trump...
No way. Look at Jeb now. He said he will win without us. He is sticking by that and they will never change.


Offline aligncare

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2015, 09:38:03 pm »
Why did Reagan pick GHW Bush for VP? He picked him, in order to win, that is why. (And because he was qualified and competent of course)

An accommodation.

We are living a new set of factors today, though. Reagan was 2 generations ago. The level of Islamic terrorism had not reached the 9-11 stage, where Americans feel it viscerally, not just a story in the news from the Middle East.

It's a different world today, and different politics will need to evolve to accommodate a changing environment. Establishment DC is not evolving with the times.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 09:39:20 pm by aligncare »

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2015, 09:51:18 pm »
We are living a new set of factors today, though. Reagan was 2 generations ago. The level of Islamic terrorism had not reached the 9-11 stage, where Americans feel it viscerally, not just a story in the news from the Middle East.

It's a different world today, and different politics will need to evolve to accommodate a changing environment. Establishment DC is not evolving with the times.

Exactly...we have never seen anything like this before..you cannot compare it to anything in the history of politics...2016-17 is making history.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2015, 10:12:30 pm »
Exactly...we have never seen anything like this before..you cannot compare it to anything in the history of politics...2016-17 is making history.
Yes. That is why I ask......The GOPe want a new voter base.....just do they think it is going to be? They lost us, Jeb is at 3%. They actually think they will get obama/hillary voter base to vote for a R?


Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2015, 10:17:06 pm »
Why did Reagan pick GHW Bush for VP? He picked him, in order to win, that is why. (And because he was qualified and competent of course)

An accommodation.

Yes exactly
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2015, 10:39:40 pm »
Okay I will bite. Prove to me that today's times are more serious, than previous times.

We had revolution, invasion, and civil war. We had massive economic depression. We had world wars. I would also argue that the citizenry suffered a worse fissure in the  60s-70s, over Vietnam, than what we have today.

And even if today is just as bad as earlier times, we survived then, prevailed then, and we should be looking forward to doing the same again.

We just observed Pearl Harbor Day. I doubt most realize what a grave time that was, and how remarkably we responded.  To those among us that were not taught about the gravity and sacrifices, it is worthy of study.



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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2015, 10:48:34 pm »
Do you really think so, in view of the near record number of Governors, state house majorities, Federal majorities in the House and Senate?
Much of those were the result of gerrymandering after the 2010 elections (and yes, the Democrats were threatening the same in 2008). Come 2020, all of those advantages could easily be lost.
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Offline ABX

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2015, 10:50:21 pm »
Okay I will bite. Prove to me that today's times are more serious, than previous times.

We had revolution, invasion, and civil war. We had massive economic depression. We had world wars. I would also argue that the citizenry suffered a worse fissure in the  60s-70s, over Vietnam, than what we have today.

And even if today is just as bad as earlier times, we survived then, prevailed then, and we should be looking forward to doing the same again.

We just observed Pearl Harbor Day. I doubt most realize what a grave time that was, and how remarkably we responded.  To those among us that were not taught about the gravity and sacrifices, it is worthy of study.

The difference now is that most people seem weaker. Everyone becoming offended at every little thing (on both sides), complaining about the tiniest hardships, and not planning long term. Can you imagine if people today were asked to ration or plant victory gardens like during WWII?  You are right, the issues we face today are not greater, the people however, are weaker.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2015, 10:59:34 pm »
When the Whigs did that, not accepting the majority of abolitionists in their party, they disappeared entirely. The Republicans face that prospect if they attempt to reject the movement of a majority of their voters. I don't think they will take that risk. The Bush wing is not well positioned to take voters from the Democrats.  I really think accommodation is the path they will take - finding a meeting ground between the establishment and the outsiders.

Excellent point re the Whigs resistance to move to the right side of history.

Factoring the margin of error, Bush is polling a near 0%. If Reince Priebus and the RNC, and the fat and happy congress don't see that there's a seismic shift in the body politic, then they deserve to go the way of the Whigs.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2015, 11:00:05 pm »
Okay I will bite. Prove to me that today's times are more serious, than previous times.

We had revolution, invasion, and civil war. We had massive economic depression. We had world wars. I would also argue that the citizenry suffered a worse fissure in the  60s-70s, over Vietnam, than what we have today.

And even if today is just as bad as earlier times, we survived then, prevailed then, and we should be looking forward to doing the same again.

We just observed Pearl Harbor Day. I doubt most realize what a grave time that was, and how remarkably we responded.  To those among us that were not taught about the gravity and sacrifices, it is worthy of study.

OK, we are involved in a global war with radical islamist in at least 50 different countries, none of which will call it a war and will not name who we are at war with and refuse to put the nations on a war footing.
Our corporations are exporting jobs in record numbers and those that are not being exported are being automated out of existance, at the same time our government refuses to secure the border and is importing labor, both legal and illegal, in record numbers to the point that our REAl unemployment is in the neighborhood of 25% or more.
The last 15 years have divided the country to the point that we have groups openly declaring war, and following thru, on law enforcement.
We have $16 trillion in debt, growing by the second, wall street is artificially propped up and will fall soon.
Our federal government has exceeded it authority in every way imaginable with no end in sight.

Shall I go on?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2015, 11:04:32 pm »
Much of those were the result of gerrymandering after the 2010 elections (and yes, the Democrats were threatening the same in 2008). Come 2020, all of those advantages could easily be lost.

Doubt it. With the GOP in control of those legislatures, maps will be in their hands and those 30 governors. Congressional districts are THE KEY benefit to holding all those state houses.

All that could change, of course, if Trump is elected and governs like he campaigns.  The GOP could lose the Senate in 2016 and a lot of House seats in 2018. Same for losses in state leges.

IOW, the Republican version of Obama.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2015, 11:07:18 pm »
The difference now is that most people seem weaker. Everyone becoming offended at every little thing (on both sides), complaining about the tiniest hardships, and not planning long term. Can you imagine if people today were asked to ration or plant victory gardens like during WWII?  You are right, the issues we face today are not greater, the people however, are weaker.
I had dinner last Christmas with my visiting niece and her husband. She spent 10 years in the Air Force and he spent a few years in the Army including combat in Iraq. Both have some kind of PTSD.

During our talks, he said what you said. Namely that his generation was not "as good" as our WWII generation. It came without prompting.

I sense that generally, in our society. Maybe it is a sign of my own age, with father and father-in-law serving in WWII combat, surviving, having big families, working hard.

About the very last topic at the family dinner table was about how horrible things were in the USA.

I feel many in our society take for granted things which our parents worked hard for, sacrificed for, fought wars for, and we merely expect to come automatically.

We ought to admit WE have done a poor job of passing along the history and stories of what makes America great.

And we ought to admit WE have done a poor job of educating people about why conservative political philosophy is the best.

I understand that Trump is winning because he remains optimistic, energetic, positive, hard working, etc.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2015, 11:07:28 pm »
Excellent point re the Whigs resistance to move to the right side of history.

Factoring the margin of error, Bush is polling a near 0%. If Reince Priebus and the RNC, and the fat and happy congress don't see that there's a seismic shift in the body politic, then they deserve to go the way of the Whigs.

There is a shift in 15-17% of the body politic.  That's the Trumpies.  For everybody else, there are no pitchforks.  You guys, like your boy, tend to overestimate your influence.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Carson: Brokered convention would 'destroy' GOP
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2015, 11:16:29 pm »
There is a shift in 15-17% of the body politic.  That's the Trumpies.  For everybody else, there are no pitchforks.  You guys, like your boy, tend to overestimate your influence.
They have enough influence to nominate somebody that will lose the general election, like Goldwater did.

Times were pretty scarey back then, with kids still "ducking and covering" in fear of nuclear bombs from the Soviets, a recent assassination of our President, Vietnam about to ramp up, students about to riot on campuses.

Today is pretty mild by comparison.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln